Plumbing Cost

redoctober

Hi there,

Just got charged 2000 for two days work to fix problems with water softener, water not getting to attic tank, toilet with poor flushing power and kitchen sink hot water tap not flowing. In fairness he worked hard and seems to have done a good job.

But…it seems like an outrageous price to me. When hired the guy said he charged 45 per hour. I did the mental maths and was hoping it wouldn't take too many hours. Needless to say he was happy to keep working away for 2 days! My wife works from home and said he spend a few hours away in the hardware shop getting things. Still billed me for 9 hours a day.

Materials alone cost 440. This is for some fittings, pipes. Some pipes which seemed perfectly good were replaced.

So it turns out he billed me 45 each for him and his helper. When I booked him he just said 45 per hour, no mention of helper's wages.

This is basically 400 each per day for labour. Does that seem reasonable to anyone out there?

Sleeper12

If he came out to look at the job beforehand then I'd expect him to charge you at least an hour for that. Trips to get materials should be billed to you. So should an hours lunch.

The hours billed seems reasonable to me. Personally I wouldn't charge the same rate for a helper unless it was another qualified plumber. Obviously he should charge full rate if helper is actually a plumber

who what when

It does seem a bit on the high side alright but the reality is that if he was working on say a new build house he would be making that kind of money. And yes you pay him for the time it takes to get material for your job.

Padre_Pio

Sounds about right. Thems the wages. I've heard plumbers and carpenters around here getting that and more per day. Electricians are on even higher wages.

They have to charge for time spent sourcing materials, and most trades won't reuse old material. It would be like an electrician using old wire. No telling what issues it might have down the line.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038370#Comment_122038370

You say "So should an hour's lunch"

We don't know if lunch was billed here. Who gets paid for lunchbreak? Its not regarded as part of the paid work day for most people. I would challenge if any tradespersob who tried to charge me for time that was not worked (eg. lunch break),

We dont know if time was billed to assess the job/quote. To me, that would be a cost of business. Without quotes for jobs, there is no future income for tradesperson.

Its getting like solicitors who bill by time on the clock, but you have no idea how much time was actually put in or, if indeed all those hours were necessary/worked.

@redoctober

Seems high but I don't know the amount of work done. Did you not get a quote beforehand? At €45 per hour and not to know how many hours and people on the job is a vague quote to say the least. Did both go for supplies or just one?

On a positive note, you seem happy they resolved the problems you were having.

newhouse87

Make sure you pay by cheque or bank transfer and get invoice. Wouldn't ever pay cash to tradesman who charges full whack.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122039777#Comment_122039777

Cheque can be cashed in the pub. Cheque doesn't mean tradesman is paying tax on the job. Cheque is as good as cash for not paying tax.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122039862#Comment_122039862

Yeah fair enough, bank transfer so and getting invoice makes most tradesmen pay tax.

redoctober

Was desperate. Didn't get quote as didn't know how long it would take.

Previous tradesmen would give a price per day. To me the second guy was basically an, assistant and the price given before the job was 45 per hour not 90.

redoctober

I asked for breakdown of materials. He told me he'd have to put it through books so would be 21% more. Have heard that one before too

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122044563#Comment_122044563

Your guy seems to be a chancer. I assume the 21% more refers to VAT. If materials were approx €400, the labour and materials attract a vat charge of 13.5% not 21% (standard rate is 23%). Full retail plus VAT would most likely a be included on the materials charge to you.

I don't think he can unilaterally alter what he quoted you when you ask for a detailed invoice. With a neck like he has, you can always counter with the small claims court.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058347562/plumbing-cost

Yeah, you got robbed I think.

Whatever about the plumber charging 45 quid an hour his apprentice / Labourer on anything close to that (As it appears he billed you 90 an hour in reality) is taking the absolute piss.

I'd chance asking him why its so expensive and if he's made a genuine mistake. Lot of money to be giving away.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122044581#Comment_122044581

Yep chancer of the highest order. 45 euro an hour should be including vat. Have you paid him? I'd play hardball here. Taking absolute piss to tell you 45 an hour and then charge that per person. Gone 3 or 4 hours to get materials is also taking the piss.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122044557#Comment_122044557

You misunderstood. €45 per man hour not €45 per hour. 2nd guy might have been an assistant but if qualified plumber then full rates apply. I have no idea if it was expensive or not. Plumber might have spent 4 days on his own doing it

Much more important here than the rate charged is the quality of the work. If it's a good job, then happy days. Money well spent.

The time for haggling over the price is before the work starts not at the end of the job. Hopefully you will have many decades trouble free with the work carried out

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122044563#Comment_122044563

21% is definitely for materials.

He claims the 21% vat back on the materials. He supplies & fits the materials so is a service rather than a sale. For this he charges 13.5% vat.

So long as the materials cost less than 2/3 of the overall price of the job the it's 13.5% on the whole job and not 21%.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122045214#Comment_122045214

TBH going by OP, he didnt misunderstand, the plumber didn't seem to mention any extra help he would have only that it would be 45 euro an hour. The fact he is also not charging vat( now he says as he was asked for invoice) shows this plumber is tax dodging another reason to think hes a scammer. But yeah your right, op should have haggled at start.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122045234#Comment_122045234

I hear you but quotes per hour are usually per man hour. If he took 4 days on his own it's the same price as two men for two days. Charging for the 2nd plumber & getting it done in half the time isn't unfair on op and doesn't increase the overall price in any way.

I'm not saying €45 per man hour isn't expense. Just pointing out that op agreed to it before job started.

I wouldn't pay more than 13.5% to the plumber for the overall job though

ebbsy

Should have got a cash quote at the start.

ebbsy

Ask him how much it would be in cash before you pay.

Sleeper12

Screenshot_20240421_102758_Chrome.jpg

Average plumber hourly rates according to Tradesmen.ie

This is the average hourly rate per plumber or per man hour.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122045226#Comment_122045226

Agree the 2/3 rule does not apply here.

With just the OP to go on, the tradesman was vague on what the job would cost the customer before starting and made no mention of VAT being extra. If it was me, I would have asked for an all in cost (quote) and made it clear its not a cash job.

Rows Grower

If you've already paid him chalk it down to experience and know better the next time, you got caught.

If you haven't already paid then I'd be sitting him down for a chat about the hours offsite and the 400 a day wages for a helper.

jackboy

I'd say just pay up and forget about it. Importantly it appears he took his time and did a good and thorough job. You mention he changed parts that you think looked ok. Those parts may actually needed replacement and it may be a good sign he did more than the bare minimum.

One issue here is that communication seems to be not great. However, to have access to a reliable plumber with the current shortages is no small thing. I would say don't burn the bridges. Next time just ask more questions up front.

Galwayguy35

Had a plumber in a few weeks ago for a small job that took him about 40 mins and he charged me 70 quid.

And this was after multiple calls in the previous few days to actually get him to come.

redoctober

I just feel a better way to do business is to estimate for the customer upfront what it will cost per day. I understand that for this kind of job he's not going to know how much he has to do till he gets started. Why not tell me it was 90 per hour. Or just give a per day price ? Much more transparent. For those saying that you'd pay the same anyway does not give the consumer any choice or transparency. If he told me how much per day and then said its going to take me another day i would know whether i could afford that or not. Totally untransparent pricing

Kaisr Sose

Have you paid him?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122047672#Comment_122047672

I really think it's on you to understand what he's charging you for, and I don't think you got ripped off at all. 400 a day per person is the going rate. You're not paying his wages, you're paying costs of running his company, and the company pays his wages. Also the diesel, the van, and cost of the tools, the accountant, the few weeks of holidays he gets per year.

I had two lads working last week and they quoted a job for 1000 euro, materials included, which I'd estimate cost less than 100 euro. So that's about 450 each for one full day's work. Chatting with one of them after and I'm paying 50 euro more than they get on site. They showed up with two vans, maybe €2k worth of tools and did a good job. I'm happy with that, because the alternative was getting no one.

redoctober

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122047970#Comment_122047970

Yeah.