FTTH Install - No Duct

bemak

Arranged to have fiber installed today. We're in an estate in Kildare. Older estate, no ducting but the fiber is in a manhole directly outside in the grass verge. A footpath separates the manhole from our property line. Very nice chap came to install and was very accommodating but he said his hands were tied on seeing there was no duct. He said he'd report back to Eir - but he was saying that apparently Eir are rowing back on installations where the works might involve cutting up a path etc to run the cable. Any truth in this?

We'll have to wait and see what happens next. If an installation isn't possible because there isn't a duct crossing the path from the manhole to my garden, can I seek permission from the council to install my own duct at my cost? Just thinking ahead in the event Eir do say its not possible to install. All I need is to get it across the path - the installer said that if I got it inside my garden wall, he'd be able to run it wherever I wanted. Gent!

jippo nolan

I had a similar issue with a collapsed duct to my house

Eir sent out an engineer who recommended the pathway outside the house be replaced.

a company called Eircet then installed cable & replaced with new pathway.

took a few weeks from initial inspection.

bemak

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120160758#Comment_120160758

ah cool - hopefully same happens for me. theres no panic so happy to wait for it

phog

Cutting public paths/roads require permission from the local authority.

Hopefully, they'll be able to provide a solution to get you working as nearly all in our estate had to have some intervention between the manhole and the house but once you get it in it's a dream.

jippo nolan

And it’s a great bargaining chip every year shopping around different providers!

bemak

Called Eir this morning to follow it up. Apparently they've cancelled my installation citing that it's "not worth the cost of installing a duct across the footpath". Unbelievable. Fiber in the manhole outside my house and I'm not able to get it. Even though my neighbour had his path cut to facilitate his connection the week before.

Just wondering what my options are? Can I seek permission from the council to cut the path and put in my own duct? Will be complaining to Comreg in the interim for all that will do.

have2flushtwice

Pm send on how to get your duct installed.

muckwarrior

I was in the same situation. Manhole outside our house, but ducting only going to the first house on the road (our neighbour).

The circet guy told me they'd need to send a "civil" team to add a duct and I should hear in a week or two. Didn't hear anything so called vodafone and they told us they'd cancelled the order because OpenEir told them it wasn't possible to install a cable. It took a couple of months to get an answer from OpenEir, but eventually they replied saying "The team is working to implement a process to enable the completion of fibre service where properties like yours were served with direct buried leads but this is not envisaged until the latter end of the IFN programme rollout in 2026."

In my case I just went with Virgin, since they already had a cable installed in the house. I didn't realise it when originally ordering the BB that they can supply Gigabit speeds over their coax cable, so I'm happy enough now tbh.

Girl Geraldine

By the book, you can apply to the council for a road opening licence to dig the footpath for to install the duct. However, to get the licence you would have to be submitting insurances, traffic management plans, and details for road reinstatement training certificates etc - typically stuff that only larger builders or utility companies would have.

So if Eir won't do it, then you have one other option for putting in the duct yourself. - To hell with the council and road opening licence - just go do it, or hire someone in to do it. The path would only be cut for a few hours and chances are the council won't even know, and not even care provided that you don't cause some other big issue over it like blocking a road, or some bollox of a neighbour reporting you, if if you leave the footpath an absolute state after you.

Worst case is you'll get an angry letter from the council but ultimately it would be all talk. Council honestly do not care and certainly will not be prosecuting you under the Roads Act for putting a duct across a footpath.

I would be in the know about the realities of what goes on. And I can tell you, if I were in your shoes, it would just go at it some quiet time of day and have the duct in and the footpath fixed before anyone could say boo. Council can go fúck themselves with their road opening licence.

have2flushtwice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186792#Comment_120186792

Thats fine until...

if someone trips over the bad concrete job (And some go a great reinstatement job) seeks compensation from the council, they assess and determine that the only person who would have done it is the homeowner...

bemak

I was reading up on the Eir Terms and Conditions and to my eyes, there's nothing in it that allows them to renege on the agreement to provide the fibre service as per the agreement that I entered with them.

I note the following which would appear to provide for Eir to install the necessary line at my premises:

5.8 eir may, if for technical reasons it deems it necessary or expedient to do so, enter agreements with two or more persons to provide Service at their respective Premises by means of a common telecommunications line for all or part of the route between their respective Premises and to the Exchange to which the lines are connected. These General Terms and Conditions shall apply to such a connection.

Furthermore, clause "7.10.2 Termination of Service by eir" outlines the circumstances under which eir can terminate their services. There is no provision within this clause to cancel the service due to the reluctance to install the necessary telecommunications as per clause 5.8. 

Clause 8.4 allows for Eir to suspend or terminate a service UNTIL such time as they obtain the necessary permissions to make a connection. This is a reasonable clause, it provides Eir with the necessary time to acquire the necessary licences to open the footpath to provide a connection. It DOES NOT allow Eir to cancel the agreement to provide the service they were contracted to do so. "You agree that if eir is unable to obtain any access rights, wayleaves permissions that may be required over your property or if You fail to provide eir with any access rights that may not be possible to provide to continue to provide Service and that in such a case it may be necessary for eir to suspend or terminate the Service until such time as it is in a position to obtain the necessary access rights, wayleaves or permissions."

Am I missing something that allows them to walk away if the install is "too difficult"?

Cyrstal Maze

Having same issue with my rental house, it was built after other houses in my area. There is no fibre duct to house. Sky have sent engineers twice and options are to use my neighbours line (digging up their path to gain fibre) or have sky agree to having a line brought through from outside my house. Any advice if sky refuse to put in new duct? What are the alternative options? Ive just cancelled with virgin media as the price went up so ive no provider now for internet or tv. Thanks

deezell

I've got to run 100m of ducting across the garden to the pole on my side of the road, across a wet ditch. Existing 40 year old ducting with the copper wire is clogged in several places. The suncontracted installation tech working for Eir contacted their 'civil' section, who are working all over the area drawing fibre along the road by pole or under the verges with mole trenchers and tunnellers. He rang me to say they won't undertake it. My Broadband is with Digiweb, but Eir 'own' and maintain the original buried cable, and do the installation from the road to the house terminal for Digiweb. Digiweb keeps asking me have I the duct cleared or a new one installed. I've bought the 100m of 63mm twinwall duct , but have to find someone with a light trencher or mole plough. Garden is literally soft bog, a heavy mini digger would just turn it to mush. I'd dig it with a spade if I wasn't so fckd healthwise this minute. I told Digiweb I'd pay a charge for the new duct install, but they've not come up with anybody. It seems bizarre that ordinary householders have to get down and dirty. I'd do this myself in my sleep normally, if it was a year or two ago. I'll keep looking for a man and tiny minidigger maybe. A 30 cm deep 80mm wide trench is all that's required, no concrete or walls in the way, yet they have no facility to supply this.

phog

I think a number of Operators have signed up with eir or the eir subcontractor to do exactly what you require. Digiweb might be one that hasn't but maybe you should ask them to request the subcontractor to go on site with you to complete the ducting on your property

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972583#Comment_121972583

He was an Eir subbie, he arrived on site to do the full install and draw the fibre through, but the duct was blocked from either end after a few metres, and even from the centre where It was easy to uncover, 5 or 6 metres at the most with the rods either way. He contacted his work colleagues, he even called them the the 'civil', but got back to me to say they wouldn't work up to the house, I've to sort the last 100m myself. End of. Digiweb out of ideas also. Maybe I'll ring 'Circet?' directly? Or there's another crowd in the trenches I see, can't remember their name. They'll probably quote me 4 figures to get rid. I rang NBI, hoping for a lead, they just said my address is not on their national broadband map, that I'm inside an area well served by providers. I wonder if I changed to Eir would it be magically done the next day?

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972865#Comment_121972865

Different Operators have signed up for different options with eir, some have signed up for eir to reschedule appointments, provide access to blocked duct on private property, others haven't signed up for that. I assume it's because eir charge the operator for this service.

I don't know if Digiweb is one of the operators that has signed up for those extra services

A local handy man should be able to assist you, or maybe lay the duct on top of the ground, apply for the FTTH again and hope that the technician will install the fibre into the duct. You can always bury the duct at a later stage

deezell

Yes I could normally, but old age and radiation/drug therapy side effects have me bolloxed for this year at any rate. I hand dug a trench when we got the mains water 22 years ago, easy enough in the turf, but the last 25m is through a woods, roots everywhere. The lads laying the mains in the road verge had a beefy mini digger, I spotted him a couple of €20s and he came in and ripped the roots, even with the digger it was tough going, and I only needed clearance for ½" hydrodare, 22mm in diameter. The ducting is 68mm, though not as deep required as the water main, 30cm instead of 44cm. I've found an ad for man and mini digger local enough. I'll ring him. Ditch is not an issue, they don't mind the ducting looping down and up in the water and sludge, its watertight anyway once you don't crack it. Its a pity, the laser guided mole device would just whizz across under the grass if I could only get them in to do it.

phog

My next door neighbour got FTTH today, the technician couldn't feed the fibre through the duct that has his copper cable in, he used some device to localise the duct in the front lawn, dug down, made some insertion to existing duct and added a new duct and fibre to the house. Took an hour or so and completed on a first visit by the technician. I assume the neighbour ordered the connection from an operator that pays for such service.

deezell

Yes, a CAT and Genny tool is a system used to send a pulsed radio signal from a generator (the Genny) down an existing cable which is detected by the Cable Avoidance Tool. Used to prevent digging up cables, its also handy at finding them and blockages in them. If you send the signal down the cable or the rodding, you can detect where it is and where it stops from the length if the rod to the blockages.Dig there and you can uncover the blocked duct, cut open, and proceed from there. I had blockages in my duct under a tarmac drive, under a flowing ditch, under tree roots, and the ducting used 40 odd years ago was corrugated, inside and out, so very difficult to push past on curves. New ducting is corrugated on the outside but smooth inside. Very hard to get a minidigger with driver, lads I rang have no staff to operate them. I'll end up hiring a self drive one at this rate. It's a long long time since I operated an excavator in my agri machine driving days, but needs must.

Prospectors

Do ye know which operators do provide the extended service of laying a duct?

bemak

[deleted]

phog

I assume you could write up a wayleave for the duct but not grant permission to enter the property without agreed permission for access and or work on the duct

deezell

Still struggling to find a minidigger plus driver for a few hours. No joy contacting Circet. My provider phoned to see if I had the duct in yet to complete the install. They suggested posting on Tradesman.ie I posted this;

Man and micro digger, less than 1 ton, to dig a narrow shallow trench, 15-20cm wide 40cm deep about 80 metres across soft peat garden, to hold telephone cable ducting.

I got these replys;

Jesus wept. The last one especially. Obviously making a two week job out of it, probably tell me my gutters need cleaning also for another 2 grand.