UCD is a snobby University?

Lionheaart

I'm on the verge of concluding UCD is a snobby university but was curious what you think.

I'm open to the idea maybe it's just me, I don't come from a background of university goers. Having said that, I don't find the work difficult, but I wonder if the usual attitude of university goers is normal and I am just not accustomed to it, given my background.

I'm based in the Arts block. In my time in UCD I've come to understand Arts students don't have a good reputation (they are mocked) and would be considered on the lowest rung of the course status ladder in UCD. Maybe it's just Arts students then. Maybe if I was based in another building I would be having a totally different experience. What's your opinion on that?

Either way I find I just don't fit in with most people or groups I've met. I've always made an effort to be social and engage people but there just seems to be a snobbishness about them. Maybe I'm naive. I observe people interacting, and I can read between the lines and get the intent of what they're saying but it's just not the way I would relate to people.

Can it be concluded UCD is a snobby university? I know that's a very general question which may only get general answers but I'd like to make better sense of my experience here in UCD.

Mardy Bum

The whole idea of course status is now redundant if you are looking for a job in Ireland. I know people with all kinds of degrees ranging from health sciences, humanities, business and engineering who cannot get work in their field. The sense of superiority you perceive other people to have is nothing more than innocence about the real world.

kkumk

I know what you mean, I found the Arts block to be like that when I first started here. Personally I think the whole snobby D4 thing disappears after 1st year. I feel like at the start everyone is trying to be better than each other like have more money or wear nicer clothes or whatever, especially those from the typical southside 'd4' background. However by 2nd year almost everyone has to get a job to fund their studies, most people are going on nights out on the cheap no matter what their background & everyone seems to be too broke to afford coffee by 3rd year lol.
I don't know if that's just my experience, I mean there were definitely still people I knew that were still living off their parents by the time they finished their degree, but I kinda just felt sorry for them rather than actively despising them lol because they have no real world experience or anything!
I'm not sure if you're still a first year or what but try not to think of other people in terms of how snobby they are, try to look past that because a lot of people in the arts block are just putting on a front, but when you get to know them they're actually really nice!

beardedmaster

In my time in UCD, (present 3rd year), I've become friends with people in just about every single undergraduate degree programme here (even the really obscure ones.. I'm looking at you Health & Performance Science). And of course, through those people I'd get to know other people in their class, so in most cases I'd know a few in each degree.

Any snobbishness or feelings of superiority I've encountered in people has been entirely to do with the individuals involved, not the courses they were doing. I couldn't find any correlation between people in any particular faculty always looking down on any other particular faculty. You're gonna find pricks no matter where you go!

As far as the "course status ladder" idea goes, that idea holds as much importance as you let it hold. I do know for a fact that Arts in general does get a bit of a ribbing the odd time, but, from what I can say from what I can observe, the vast majority of it is harmless inter-faculty banter. People that were anyway serious in their misgivings of other courses were few and far between, or perhaps previously had a bad encounter with a few people from the other faculty and has tarred them all with the same brush.

I'm talking from the perspective of someone who is from a background of university goers, who had a lot of friends come here the same year I did, but am not from Dublin and didn't attend a private school.

superblu

Best 3 years of my life were spent doing an arts degree in ucd. Never again will you be in a place with so many people the same age as you and going through the same things. The whole d4 thing is a bit of a myth in my opinion. Groups of people from anywhere can be cliquish. Why would you give a toss anyway. I met people just as sound from blackrock as ballina. I think what you have there is a self fulfilling prophecy. You went into ucd with a preconceived notion that it was snobby and will seize upon any opportunity to vindicate this notion.

Siuin

There is such a multitude of people from all walks of life in arts alone, not to mention the entirity of UCD. Perhaps you haven't found you 'niche group' yet. I'd recommend meeting people with an open mind, though- you've made some very sweeping generalisations in your OP and that kind of thinking could really hold you back when it comes to making new friends.

shucks!

I find UCD to have a very countryside atmosphere, I'm from Dublin and most of the people in my course are from the countryside. I feel that most D4s in Ucd do not stand out from the crowd because there not as bothered to make friends cuz all there friends are in Dublin.

As for the buildings i believe it is an elietis system. The likes of Quinn building compared to the arts building.

Mikeyt086

I don't know about snobbishness, but in my experience (4 years) Arts students by and large are just absolutely terrified of not being normal and blending in. Nothing is worse than standing out or drawing attention to themselves, as a result, most tend to keep to themselves or their pre-existing cliques, this may be what you perceive as snobby.

This fear some have absolutely cripples them when it comes to:
-Participating in lectures
-Interacting with classmates they don't know
-Being involved with anything

I have seen a lecturer ask a specific area (because they were so quiet) what the answer to an absolutely simple question was, literally everyone in this group of 10/12 people knew the answer, but they sat in silence and avoided looking at the lecturer because they are afraid of saying something in a lecture hall.

It's mind boggling. I'm not some outgoing cool dude by any means, and there is nothing worse than a know it all (mature students most of the time) who will not shut up, but jesus, why are so many people in Arts paralysed by their fear of NOT blending into a crowd? It makes everything so awkward for the lecturer, and from what I gather it is unique to Arts.

[Jackass]

I don't think UCD is a snobby university, I don't even see how such a thing could be possible. UCD has over 20,000 registered students, which I would bet my life contains people from every single county in Ireland and would also include scores of different nationalities.

So, I suppose we need to define what a snob is. Is it someone who makes assumptions of people and tries to pigeon hole them into social categories? Perhpas "Look at him, he is from the south of Dublin and dresses like most other people his age and from where he comes - what a D4 w@nker", or is it someone who insists on stereotyping people as inferior to them with no tangebale reason, such as "Look at all these D4 w@nkers in UCD, oh did Daddy buy you an education and pay for everything?" (usually an assumption made by people from outside of Dublin who have their parents pay for them to reloacte to a expensive city straight out of school and pay their rent and assist them with school and living costs).

I think it's human nature that we try an cloud our own insecurities over with why this could be someone else's fault. OP, I don't think you are owed friendship, but if you don't fit in with people you meet, maybe that's your problem and not theirs? I've gone back to UCD as a mature student and have never once encountered this supposed D4 takeover of a university run by jocks that queue up outside the Newman building to mock all the peasants.

In fact, I've met people from all walks of life, both sides of Dublin, all counties of Ireland and people from Vancouver to India, none of whom have ever been anything but pleasant. Are they all my BFF's? No, but then, should they be? A lot of people go to College with friends from school, particularly in a university based in South Dublin, where a lot of these loathed D4 types went to school (you'll find DCU for example would have a lot of people from North Side Dublin such as Swords, Drumcondra, Howth, Sutton etc. as it's more convenient for them) so naturally cliques will form and people will be around people they grew up with and may have a very happy and full social circle, so wont be inclinded to making a massive effort with new people, which is crap if you are a new person without much established social circle to begin with, but this whole Ross O'Carroll Kelly D4 knob end thing is the biggest myth to me.

It's for people who don't seem to fit in because they're intimidated by the myth to begin with, so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, or it is their go to excuse when they don't fit in as it's some one else fault.

Yes there are annoying kids from the south of Dublin, probably at worst will be obnoxious spoilt brats, yet seem to be more loathed than the bad youths elsewhere in the city, who will break glass bottles over your head or stab you...but that kind isn't as hated or talked about as less people feel inferior to them.

OP, I'd suggest you get over your complex and blaming social factors for any feeling of not fitting in or isolation and try and mingle with people you do feel more comfortable around. BUT if you go around like a pre-judging snob, then I'm not suprised you're not fitting in.

Siuin

Tbh I think quite a few people on this thread are projecting their own insecurities and inability to fit in on the university. As handy as it would be to blame all our life's woes on UCD, it just isn't the reality of the situation.

Eathrin

I'm one of only two from (South) Dublin in my course and honestly I'd say that the snobbiest people are coming from anywhere in the country. It's not entirely a geographical thing. You'd swear I was posh because I dress nicely (on a strict budget) and have a South Dublin accent but in all honesty I haven't nor do my family have a penny.

SparkySpitfire

I'm in Arts and to be perfectly honest I do notice a huge D4 population... In one of my classes there's a clique of about 20 D4 girls that always sit together, and I find it extremely intimidating (probably due to my anxiety). But I don't find that UCD or Arts in general for that matter, is snobbish.

I'm the first person in my family to do the Leaving Cert, never mind go to university. I'm finding it extremely difficult to fit in (hence spending most of my free time in the library) and I find being an Arts student altogether intimidating but I don't think it's due to snobbery. However, I have noticed that a large amount of people knew people in Arts before they went to UCD, myself included. I have one friend that I see every now and again, but by no means do we stick to each other like glue. A lot of cliques seem to have formed that way though and it can't be denied.

Overall, I don't perceive Arts as a snobbish course, or UCD a snobby university, cliquish maybe, but that's only if you're clutching at straws.

Fad

If you aren't making friends in your course and you actually want to make friends, go join a society or a club or get involved in something. You'll find cliques there too (it's kinda human nature when people spend large amounts of time together) but by and large getting involved in something you're even vaguely passionate about isn't hard!

PaurGasm

Its like this...

Anyone I have known who have went to UCD have literally changed their personality to become snobby and posh...

And get this, all of them have gained this posh Dublin accent(as opposed to their native Donegal accent)... Now I know people can change and pick up a slight accent, but jesus, turning into a complete twat amd changing your accent is just comical...

My sister wants to go to UCD...I jokingly told her that she will turn into a posh Dub haha

catch.23

PaurGasm wrote: »

Its like this...

Anyone I have known who have went to UCD have literally changed their personality to become snobby and posh...

And get this, all of them have gained this posh Dublin accent(as opposed to their native Donegal accent)... Now I know people can change and pick up a slight accent, but jesus, turning into a complete twat amd changing your accent is just comical...

My sister wants to go to UCD...I jokingly told her that she will turn into a posh Dub haha

That has more to do with the people you know than the university i'd say . . because 99% of people don't become like that.

PaurGasm

catch.23 wrote: »

That has more to do with the people you know than the university i'd say . . because 99% of people don't become like that.

I know that...I left that comment based on the 4 or 5 people I know that went to UCD... Thats stereotypically the way that I have seen it...I know my self that not everyone is like that...I just found it weird that all of the 4 or 5 people I know that went there turned like this...

I suppose it has to do with the influences around you etc...

Chet T16

I'm guilty of turning posh since going to UCD, this one time i took a wee and washed my hands afterwards

beardedmaster

PaurGasm wrote: »

I know that...I left that comment based on the 4 or 5 people I know that went to UCD... Thats stereotypically the way that I have seen it...I know my self that not everyone is like that...I just found it weird that all of the 4 or 5 people I know that went there turned like this...

I suppose it has to do with the influences around you etc...

It has far more to do with how prone a person is to let things influence them!!

Annasopra

I don't think UCD is snobbish but it is very monocultural and middle class.

How many working class Dublin voices do you ever hear in UCD?

superblu

mango salsa wrote: »

I don't think UCD is snobbish but it is very monocultural and middle class.

How many working class Dublin voices do you ever hear in UCD?

Would this not be the case with any university. Surely one of the things that defines somebody being termed as middle class is that they have been university educated.

Crow92

mango salsa wrote: »

I don't think UCD is snobbish but it is very monocultural and middle class.

How many working class Dublin voices do you ever hear in UCD?

Just mine ;-)

It is true though 3 of us in a class of 60 went onto university which is quite sad

Redlion

mango salsa wrote: »

I don't think UCD is snobbish but it is very monocultural and middle class.

How many working class Dublin voices do you ever hear in UCD?

Working class voice here! I can guarantee that there are more working class in UCD than you think. Many of my college friends come from the same area and financial background as myself. However, I will admit that not too many from my school went to UCD, but a good number did attend university, whether it be Maynooth or DCU. The avenues that are available to attend university in this country are there to aid in the working class having access to university standard education, such as HEAR and PLCs.

Annasopra

superblu wrote: »

Would this not be the case with any university. Surely one of the things that defines somebody being termed as middle class is that they have been university educated.

No; being university educated does not define someone as middle class

steddyeddy

mango salsa wrote: »

No; being university educated does not define someone as middle class

Well I dont subscribe to ill fitting clasifications like class really but I would have to disagree with your conclusions.

Huckster

The issue here isn't whether UCD is too homogeneous or not, it's the fact that certain individuals have an inferiority complex. Who cares what 'class' (hate the term) people are from? You're in university first and foremost to be educated, not as some kind of social mixing experiment. I've met people from all walks of life in UCD- even my housemates are from various different backgrounds. Anyone who thinks UCD is 'snobby' obviously had a chip on their shoulder to begin with.

Seanchai

UCD is, perhaps, a "snobby" university if you're unfortunate enough to be involved in the D4/Culchie from rural towns with superiority complexes over the hinterland "I'm so fúcking juvenile I must feel superior to somebody" debate.

For those of us not, like, associated with, like, the L&H or LawSoc, like, and instead, like, associated with An Cumann Gaelach, Trad Soc, or many of the other down-to-earth genuine societies, UCD is a liberating university. Truly liberating. I loved my time in UCD. i loved the variety of societies, the fact that I could speak Irish or French or German with so many people in UCD. Or that I could go to Westport with the Trad Soc and they could ask me to play and I got over my nerves and played. For its diversity and inclusivity alone UCD is a brilliant university.

Those D4 wannabe wig-wearing-barrister arseholes give this university a bad reputation, and they always have done. It's time for the down-to-earth, humble, unassuming intelligent Irish to reclaim this university from these pompous, intellectually inferior arseholes and their affected English accents. Insecure Irish-hating arseholes!

Miss Lockhart

I don't think UCD is any more homogenous than any other university. I'm from a working class Dublin family and I thought it was fine.

I did encounter barriers to progression in my course (would not affect every course) but this is a much larger socioeconomic issue and neither caused by nor exclusive to UCD.

satanforsam666

I just joined this site because I found this discussion very relevant and interesting. I thought I might have found it on Reddit lmao but I hadn’t any luck . I know I’m just one voice but I want to give my two cents on the whole thing , drawing from my own personal experience as a first year student studying arts in UCD .

firstly , I think narrowing the multitude of examples of peoples own personal experiences as students down to simply them “projecting” their own insecurities and social short comings is an exercise in futility , there’s always going to be an aspect of that when people are critiquing social issues within a space , but two things can be true at once , and we can account for people’s insecurities and projections tainting their view without boiling it down to that and nothing else .

I also do believe that in a lot of ways UCD is very diverse , you see so many different styles and you meet people of all gender identities and sexual identities . As society gets more progressive within that sort of realm as does UCD in that regard . However , “class” wise , it’s very much middle class to some degree across the board , and despite the fact that we are minutes away from irelands most racially diverse city , and have many exchange students from around the world , the vast majority of UCD students are still white , middle class people . Many might say that these are things that cannot be changed , as Ireland is a predominantly white country , and universities usually traditionally more associated with the middle class . My issue is with the Universities constant reassurance that they believe in diversity but continue to never hold themselves to the same standard and practice what they preach . The first sign of this was on the open day , when they bragged about being the first university to allow Catholics to attend (have you not caught up on catholicism and it’s very big influence on Irish culture and its dominance for say the last 100 years) , as if it gives them any bragging rights in our current climate , it’s the disingenuous nature of the whole thing that doesn’t sit well with me . Either admit that there is always going to be a level of elitism within universities and let the vail fall or admit that things aren’t acceptable and things must change . Admitting is the first step lol .

personally , I do find it difficult to make new friends, however I’m middle class and as of the second semester I have made friends finally , my point is that I’m a relatively unbiased source regarding the issue of class disparity within the university because it isn’t a isolated environment for me . I also think that the comments I saw saying that discussing class is crude , however I believe this is a common deflection used by middle class people who feel guilty and don’t want to acknowledge an issue , like white people who “don’t see race” lmao .

many people in the comments create straw men of these “D4 Posh , douchebag Jock types” but trust me there are plenty of pretentious arrogant pricks in the arts in UCD , it’s very much like a hive mind , and this notion that we as a college are any less elitist that trinity is nonsense , at least they’ve embraced who they are ! Thanks for your time .