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China - the future

  • 18-06-2019 8:59pm
    #1
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭


    What is the future of China.

    Will it keep growing at the rate or a slightly lesser rate than heretofore.

    It has decided to invest, (some say exploit Africa), in African countries. Selling technology, making people reliant on China.

    How long before it gets involved in conflict on a large scale or is forced into conflict.

    Will the Hong Kong climbdown be seen as the evolution of a more wobbly China.

    China installs 3/4 of a million elevators every year.

    How long before the elevator starts to stall.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    They really are a great bunch of lads.

    50 years ago they were a backwater.

    Now they're a world power.


  • #3
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    They dont invest in Africa. They build infrastructure when needed, to take resources from Africa. They even put their own workforce there to do it all.


  • #4
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    As someone who has visited China a few times over past few years it's pace of progress is incredible. Vast city underground metros are being built from scratch and completed in a few years.


  • #5
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    Mao money, Mao problem


  • #6
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    As someone who has visited China a few times over past few years it's pace of progress is incredible. Vast city underground metros are being built from scratch and completed in a few years.

    Same, it’s incredible the progress they are making.

    I think their biggest challenge will be when massive growth stalls. How will they deal with that.
    They have an insatiable appetite for technology similar to japan so that will continue their growth for a long time.


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  • #7
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    They are well on their way to world domination.

    They have infiltrated every small town in Ireland serving 3 in 1s to paddy biding their time.

    Great bunch of lads.


  • #8
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Ever been with a Chinese lady?

    Great at doing the auld 69s.

    Best beef and broccoli ever.


  • #9
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    As someone who has visited China a few times over past few years it's pace of progress is incredible. Vast city underground metros are being built from scratch and completed in a few years.

    Huh? Social credits, isnt all that progressive. Most of those cities they build are left empty.


  • #10
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    They are well on their way to world domination.

    They have infiltrated every small town in Ireland serving 3 in 1s to paddy biding their time.

    Great bunch of lads.
    Ya but we've infiltrated every town in China selling warm Guinness and Tayto
    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Huh? Social credits, isnt all that progressive. Most of those cities they build are left empty.

    Quantify "most" there.

    Standard of housing is poor. Some blocks are uninhabitable a few decades after being constructed.

    It's a huge stretch to say cities are empty.


  • #11
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    They dont invest in Africa. They build infrastructure when needed, to take resources from Africa. They even put their own workforce there to do it all.
    Infrastructure possibly on the back of loans that cannot be repaid.
    So if you cannot pay back x, we'll take y and z instead. [ -5pt SC ]

    But a great bunch of lads, the Chinese [ +7pt SC ]


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  • #12
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Huh? Social credits, isnt all that progressive. Most of those cities they build are left empty.

    We built lots of housing estates and apartments across the country that are left empty and rotting to this day.

    I was referring to cities where people live. Chengdu e.g only opened its first metro line in late 2010, in a few years there will be 350km of metro line in that city https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_Metro


  • #13
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,285 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    imme wrote: »
    What is the future of China.


    China installs 3/4 of a million elevators every year.

    The masterplan is to put them on top of each other when they have enough to reach the Moon

    It's reckoned another 14 years and they'll all be able to spy on us from their Moon colony


  • #14
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    As someone who has visited China a few times over past few years it's pace of progress is incredible. Vast city underground metros are being built from scratch and completed in a few years.

    Yeah they work around the clock and if anyone does they just bury them in the concrete and keep going.

    Same thing they do in the like of Dubai


  • #15
    1o059k7ewrqj3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    China's rise is good for multipolarity. Anyway what did the west think was going to happen, sending all its jobs and industry there? That China would just be another Asian country ready to debase itself and its people so the elite could benefit eg Marcos and the Philippines or Suharto and Indonesia?

    No doubt the elite (the inner party members of the Chinese Communist Party) have done exceptionally well, but they also have ambitions on a grand strategic scale. Chinese civilizations goes back hundreds if not thousands of years and pumping out cheap runners is not the end game.


  • #16
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    They are facing huge issues. The entire economy and population is addicted to massive continuous growth. There is huge corruption and a vast flight on money out of the country. They are facing a demographic time-bomb which is going to kill their growth. There is a massive debt bubble just begging to explode and significant parts of the infrastructure they have invested in is not fit for purpose and ready to fall down. . Huge 6 lane motorways hundreds of miles long with 2 cars a day and grass growing..

    Some of the building and banking practices would make the construction industry in 2006 Ireland look like a model of compliance and restraint

    Not to mention the grumblings of the large middle class, the push back in Hong Kong (and other cities) that is going to explode.

    I see China exploding and splitting up much like the old USSR did. Just don't ask me for a time frame..


  • #17
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    They dont invest in Africa. They build infrastructure when needed, to take resources from Africa. They even put their own workforce there to do it all.

    Er, ok. And this is different from any other foreign investment, how?


  • #18
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    knipex wrote: »
    They are facing huge issues. The entire economy and population is addicted to massive continuous growth. There is huge corruption and a vast flight on money out of the country. They are facing a demographic time-bomb which is going to kill their growth. There is a massive debt bubble just begging to explode and significant parts of the infrastructure they have invested in is not fit for purpose and ready to fall down. . Huge 6 lane motorways hundreds of miles long with 2 cars a day and grass growing..

    Some of the building and banking practices would make the construction industry in 2006 Ireland look like a model of compliance and restraint

    Not to mention the grumblings of the large middle class, the push back in Hong Kong (and other cities) that is going to explode.

    I see China exploding and splitting up much like the old USSR did. Just don't ask me for a time frame..

    I’d say the US or the EU is more likely to implode.

    Ireland should get a piece of that belt and road initiative.


  • #19
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Europe hands money over to the 3rd World.
    China loans them money and take whatever they need when they can't pay.

    China First.


  • #20
    1o059k7ewrqj3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    knipex wrote: »
    They are facing huge issues. The entire economy and population is addicted to massive continuous growth. There is huge corruption and a vast flight on money out of the country. They are facing a demographic time-bomb which is going to kill their growth. There is a massive debt bubble just begging to explode and significant parts of the infrastructure they have invested in is not fit for purpose and ready to fall down. . Huge 6 lane motorways hundreds of miles long with 2 cars a day and grass growing..

    Some of the building and banking practices would make the construction industry in 2006 Ireland look like a model of compliance and restraint

    Not to mention the grumblings of the large middle class, the push back in Hong Kong (and other cities) that is going to explode.

    I see China exploding and splitting up much like the old USSR did. Just don't ask me for a time frame..

    You could have left China out of your post and the entire thing could easily be attributed to a western country, especially the US. The economy of the US is centered on the idea of continuous growth ever since the departure of Keynesian economics. Infinite growth on a finite planet doesn't seem sustainable.

    I'm not a China expert, but the last sentence of your post is quite interesting, as I've seen a few Western think tanks pushing for some kind of strategy that would split China apart. It's probably adopted on some level by the US, as some sort of CIA/NSA grand strategy.

    The Chinese aren't going to let that happen. The kind of policies they have in place now which look like Big Brother, how the Han culture is supreme there, the efforts they are taking in Muslim Xinjiang or Tibet. They've seen the dissolution of the USSR and there is no way in hell the CCP will let it happen to China.


  • #21
    Yawlboy
    Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Yawlboy


    Chinese people are changing, before 996 was the norm - 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week. Now the young generation want cars and phones and vacations and designer everything but they also are not willing to work 70/80 hours a week for it. The biggest issue that China faces is the same as Japan and thats an aging population. The one child policy has led to a generation of entitled spoilt 20 somethings who have no interest in having kids or at least no more than one. That is going to be the thing that stops the growth.


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  • #22
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Europe hands money over to the 3rd World.
    China loans them money and take whatever they need when they can't pay.

    China First.

    The Africans are happy enough with Chinese investment.

    Whether you like it or not China is the future. No reason for Europeans to hate that because we are not the US. We don’t dominate the world now and won’t in the future.

    The US is Europe’s enemy. Full of angry right wingers who hate Europe and left wingers who despise “Eurocentricism”.


  • #23
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    If you had trouble learning Irish at school, wait until you must learn Mandarin.


  • #24
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Er, ok. And this is different from any other foreign investment, how?

    Foreign investment would usually invest in local resources locals can use and employ locally too. Chinese investment doesn't do that in Africa. They bring everything over on a needs basis, just to pull what they want.


  • #25
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Ya but we've infiltrated every town in China selling warm Guinness and Tayto



    Quantify "most" there.

    Standard of housing is poor. Some blocks are uninhabitable a few decades after being constructed.

    It's a huge stretch to say cities are empty.

    I don't have to quantify it. Theres quite a bit about it out there. It's not all that hard to fall onto those topics elsewhere.

    https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&ei=LVYJXbOhO_TB8gKg-6_IBQ&q=chinese+empty+cities&oq=chinese+empty+&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.0l6j0i22i30l2.31225.34526..36231...0.0..0.146.1671.16j3......0....1.........0i71j35i39j0i20i263j0i131j46j46i10i275j46i10j0i10.yrob_LQHHQs


  • #26
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,204 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Massive progress at the cost of many lives. But what they have achieved is impressive.

    Still though, i firmly do not believe China is as united as the Communist government imagery would have you believe. It's a vast landmass with a massive population and many different merging viewpoints.


    And because the world does so much trade with them people tend to forget their Muslim concentration camps.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • #27
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    The Chinese have been a great civilisation for millions of years.


  • #28
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    They can do things at a pace and on a scale that is just awesome to watch.
    Like a huge 1300 million strong team pulling together.

    And contrary to popular belief in the west they actually have a good government (as governments go) ...the Chinese government can plan long term 30 years or so ahead.

    Western governments are intrinsically unstable can only plan short term 4 or 5 years ahead and must try and please everybody to get reelected.Plus in a western system you usually get around half or more of the elected politicians doing nothing only trying to undermine the ones who are in power.


  • #29
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭screamer


    Life be cheap, fear be a great motivator, and a war be a great way to keep de economy going strong, as ould hitler knew well....... red army coming this way when economy hits the fan.


  • #30
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    The Chinese have been a great civilisation for millions of years.

    I always knew there was something to those "lizard people" conspiracies....the dinosaurs became Chinese!


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  • #31
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,469 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Foreign investment would usually invest in local resources locals can use and employ locally too. Chinese investment doesn't do that in Africa. They bring everything over on a needs basis, just to pull what they want.

    It's certainly not being done out of any benevolence, there will come a point in time when they will call in their debts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative#Accusations_of_neocolonialism


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