The Irish language

Jack Moore · 07-10-2018 2:36am #1

Would you like to see a refferendum on the first language of this country

Greyfox · 07-10-2018 2:42am

Please go away. I like the Irish language even though Im Irish and only know 25 words, don't make me dislike my native language

Filmer Paradise · 07-10-2018 2:50am

No problem with the language myself. Anybody who wants to learn it is welcome to it & more power to them.

On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.

MOH · 07-10-2018 3:04am

Always amazes me how many people complain about Irish being taught and suggest it should be dropped for English, while simultaneously failing at their professed preferred language

Arghus · 07-10-2018 3:07am

I love the Irish language and wish I could speak more of it. We should be proud of it.

Edgarfrndly · 07-10-2018 3:20am

I'm an Irish language speaker. It's not a difficult language to become comfortable with the basics, but the school curriculum will never help you build confidence. I picked it up just meeting up with a few people once a week in the pub, and a few trips out to the gaeltacht for a few pints. After a year, you'd be amazed at how much you pick up.

I think it's constitutional position is fine. I see both sides of the argument about its position in school. I don't think it should be required for universities, and I'm not really too pushed on it being mandatory for leaving cert.. although I think it should be at least up to junior cert, with a conversational class being taught for leaving cert that's optional and focuses solely on practicing it, immersing in it and building up confidence in using it.

I think some resentment from Irish comes from spending so much time on it without being able to speak it. I think if people could actually speak it, they'd have a more positive outlook on their education.

It's a nice language and I've met lots of really nice people through it. Learning it is a really good journey for any Irish person to make.

RobertKK · 07-10-2018 4:34am

There would be a revival in the language if there was more emphasis at teaching it as a spoken language rather than a written language.

Greyfox · 07-10-2018 4:43am

Arghus wrote: »

I love the Irish language and wish I could speak more of it. We should be proud of it.

But I'm not as im still p*ssed off with all the hours I spent learning it that were such a waste of time. French or German would be more beneficial. We need to stop teaching it from a textbook and actually speak the language, we need to change the way it's taught NOW

Oranage2 · 07-10-2018 4:46am

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

No problem with the language myself. Anybody who wants to learn it is welcome to it & more power to them.

On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.

Is English taught any better?

BeerWolf · 07-10-2018 5:35am

Pft, good luck with that.

ceadaoin. · 07-10-2018 6:15am

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

No problem with the language myself. Anybody who wants to learn it is welcome to it & more power to them.

On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.

It's mind boggling how kids can be "taught" a language for so long and still most of them emerge with only a few phrases, myself included. I studied french for way less time than that and can understand most stuff, am able to hold a conversation and get by on holiday without using English. Id even be more proficient in Spanish than irish and I only did that for junior cert. I mean, how is that even possible? How have they not realised that the teaching methods need an overhaul by this stage?

Wibbs · 07-10-2018 11:12am

Greyfox wrote: »

Please go away. I like the Irish language even though Im Irish and only know 25 words, don't make me dislike my native language

That's a large part of the problem G. For the vast majority of Irish people, it's no longer our native language. It's our ancestral language to varying degrees removed(e.g. a native born and bred in Donegal it could be native or a generation removed, to a native born and bred Dub it could be up to two centuries removed).

The extension to that problem has been and remains the assumption in schooling that it is our native language and we'll naturally just fall into knowing it. That's why folks like ceadaoin above(and many more of us) are more fluent in languages like French or Spanish, because they were treated like and taught as "foreign" languages from the get go.

In short; if you want more Irish speakers, treat and teach it like the "foreign" language it has become for the vast majority of Irish people.

Yamanoto · 07-10-2018 12:10pm

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools

Me two

07-10-2018 12:48pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Is English taught any better?

Well in fairness once the English lesson ends, the following lessons do continue to be taught also in English, be they history, maths, geography, or whatever. When your Irish lesson is over you don't hear a single word of Irish spoke again until the next day your teacher deems to do so.

In that sense kids are, whether they know it or not, continually learning English throughout the school day. They are also learning without consciously "being taught" by simply interacting with siblings, parents, neighbours, etc, when they go home in the evening.

TheDavester · 07-10-2018 1:14pm

rather the time would be spent on useful languages (or classes e.g. Coding) in the real world, ie Spanish/French/german/even Chinese

Shenshen · 07-10-2018 1:33pm

RobertKK wrote: »

There would be a revival in the language if there was more emphasis at teaching it as a spoken language rather than a written language.

There would be a revival if people ACTUALLY wanted to speak it.
They don't. They just like to profess their attachment to it whenever asked.

Languages are one of the most democratic things out there - if people want to speak them, they thrive. If people aren't bothered about them, they die.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-10-2018 2:02pm

Maybe, if only to stop people harping on it about an official langauge and therefore we should whatever whatever whatever whatever.

Ultimately, it's a lot like that religion/penis joke: ok to have, nice to be proud of, but you don;t want to go around waving it in people's faces to make yourself fell good.

Donald Trump · 07-10-2018 2:03pm

Jack Moore wrote: »

Would you like to see a refferendum on the first language of this country

Could have one on spelling in the other official one

Donald Trump · 07-10-2018 2:07pm

TheDavester wrote: »

rather the time would be spent on useful languages (or classes e.g. Coding) in the real world, ie Spanish/French/german/even Chinese

Ah look, that oul' lazy chestnut gets wheeled out fairly regularly.

Most people who go through secondary school learn a European language.

Fuck all practical use it ever is to them

Doesn't make learning it a waste of time though

And coding me hole. Waste of time unless you're going to work at something that needs it. Handy to have a rudimentary knowledge for some roles but otherwise it doesn't add a whole lot practically. It's still good to learn it though even if you don't use it. Same as the Irish language

whisky_galore · 07-10-2018 9:31pm

Shenshen wrote: »

There would be a revival if people ACTUALLY wanted to speak it.
They don't. They just like to profess their attachment to it whenever asked.

Languages are one of the most democratic things out there - if people want to speak them, they thrive. If people aren't bothered about them, they die.

This. Totally.

A relatively small number of enthusiatic speakers and a few million hurlers on the ditch. Ah shur I'd love to speak it but I couldn't be bothered my arse. Someone else please do it for me?

Capt'n Midnight · 07-10-2018 10:11pm

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

I'm an Irish language speaker. It's not a difficult language to become comfortable with the basics, but the school curriculum will never help you build confidence. I picked it up just meeting up with a few people once a week in the pub, and a few trips out to the gaeltacht for a few pints. After a year, you'd be amazed at how much you pick up.

So Sean Gallagher should be practically fluent at this stage seeing as how he's been leaning it for the last seven years ?

https://www.rte.ie/news/presidential-election/2018/1005/1001202-election-bites/

Fellow independent candidate Seán Gallagher said that the president should certainly be able to speak Irish to a degree.

He said he had taken "some" steps to learn Irish since his defeat in the 2011 election.

He said that if he was elected that he would commence a programme of "learn Irish with the president".

Hector Bellend · 07-10-2018 10:30pm

The irish language is on life support.

Let me know when the government decide to pull the plug and let the language die a natural death and stop keeping it alive artificially.

Hector Bellend · 07-10-2018 10:31pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ah look, that oul' lazy chestnut gets wheeled out fairly regularly.

Most people who go through secondary school learn a European language.

Fuck all practical use it ever is to them

Doesn't make learning it a waste of time though

And coding me hole. Waste of time unless you're going to work at something that needs it. Handy to have a rudimentary knowledge for some roles but otherwise it doesn't add a whole lot practically. It's still good to learn it though even if you don't use it. Same as the Irish language

At least people use computers

Turbohymac · 07-10-2018 10:56pm

Like greyfox. I think for young people today German or French is far more beneficial..apart from large Grant's within a few small gaeltacht areas of Ireland. And hoping that by providing these grants the people living there will remain speaking irish..
THE Irish language is fairly dead by now and instead of flogging a dead horse the language should be allowed to rest in peace and hopefully for a very long time. Absolute worst subject in school. Really pointless..after learning the subject through primary and secondary school I only learned German and French for 3 years and picked up much easier and I find that during my travels French and German are quite useful..on the other hand being fluent in irish would be like trying swimming with a lead balloon. RIP Irish language oh and I won't miss u either

Donald Trump · 07-10-2018 11:16pm

Hector Bellend wrote: »

At least people use computers

Different strokes for different folks as you well know, Hector me boyo!

Hotblack Desiato · 08-10-2018 12:21am

Hector Bellend wrote: »

The irish language is on life support.

About a billion euro a year's worth. Think of what we could usefully do with that money.

Donald Trump · 08-10-2018 12:59pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

About a billion euro a year's worth. Think of what we could usefully do with that money.

Could buy another 30 Thornton Halls for that for feck sake.

ancapailldorcha · 08-10-2018 1:05pm

What I think I will never understand is how there hasn't been some sort of mass fury at the special interests brigade who have been given handouts for generations at the expense of the language itself such that we are now in a position where it is culturally irrelevant for most of the country.

Like, I went to see Black '47 yesterday. Cracking film and, even better, much of it was in Irish and yet I still needed the subtitles. How on earth can Poles and other Europeans turn up to Ireland perfectly fluent in English and their own language (often with another one or two in there to boot) and the Irish don't seem to bat an eyelid as long as signs have an Irish translation on them? We study the language using a broken curriculum taught by inept teachers for over a decade and it is compulsory and this is acceptable. Worse, it's going to be forced on future generations of Irish children.

Is this not an important part of our heritage? Is it not worth actually saving instead of just continuing along the same road to nowhere?

iguana · 08-10-2018 1:12pm

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.

When I was in primary school, right up until 6th class I remember that when the teachers wanted to talk to each other in front of the students they would talk in Irish. These teachers who had spent 8 years "teaching" us this language were 100% confident that they could speak to each other in front of a whole class and know we wouldn't understand them. It just goes to show the level of bull**** charade they whole system is.

jimbobaloobob · 08-10-2018 1:14pm

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.

How is it taught in schools?

Cato the Elder · 08-10-2018 1:23pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

This. Totally.

A relatively small number of enthusiatic speakers and a few million hurlers on the ditch. Ah shur I'd love to speak it but I couldn't be bothered my arse. Someone else please do it for me?

How? If you want to learn Spanish, you can go study it taught with modern methods. Same with any other language.
Even if I wanted to, in what class could I have other learners to practice conversations with, the way it should be done?

Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed.

The Irish language

should we votw on the real first language of the state 43 votes

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