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05-08-2018, 18:46   #1
Deckard Shaw
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Should people who refuse to fold up buggies for wheelchair users on buses be fined?

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05-08-2018, 18:48   #2
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It'll take more than the dail the get that through considering the current position of first in wins, is backed by eu.
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05-08-2018, 18:50   #3
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Absolutely they should ,but this won't change a thing ,ross said one thing Leo said something else.
Meanwhile pregnant women are getting stickers to remind rail passengers they are pregnant and should be given a seat
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05-08-2018, 18:52   #4
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I thought a case taken re Equality legislation meant they did not have priority over buggies?
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05-08-2018, 18:53   #5
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05-08-2018, 18:53   #6
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05-08-2018, 18:56   #7
Fann Linn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatling View Post
Absolutely they should ,but this won't change a thing ,ross said one thing Leo said something else.
Meanwhile pregnant women are getting stickers to remind rail passengers they are pregnant and should be given a seat

How do we know those 'pregnant' women are actually pregnant? They'll probably end up like disabled blue badges with all and sundry having them.

I know I'm not a gynacologist but I'll have a look.
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05-08-2018, 18:56   #8
Dravokivich
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Originally Posted by Prisoner 6753 View Post
didn't realise one happened
It did. Buses are now being bought with a second space due to it. But that effectively means 2 unfolded buggies.
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05-08-2018, 18:59   #9
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Originally Posted by Prisoner 6753 View Post

Many drivers do intervene and make parents fold up the buggy if a wheelchair user is incoming.
From experience they don't , they simply ask can the mother with a Buggy to fold it down ,they are under no obligation to do so.
I've a seen it a few times where a mother has totally ignored a driver's request leaving wheelchair user waiting for another bus
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05-08-2018, 19:02   #10
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05-08-2018, 19:03   #11
Gatling
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Originally Posted by Fann Linn View Post
How do we know those 'pregnant' women are actually pregnant? They'll probably end up like disabled blue badges with all and sundry having them.

I know I'm not a gynacologist but I'll have a look.

I've no idea how it going to work.
See here

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...rt-858786.html
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05-08-2018, 19:06   #12
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05-08-2018, 19:09   #13
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Originally Posted by Gatling View Post
I've no idea how it going to work.
See here

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...rt-858786.html
I received a badge from the midwife at one of my scans so perhaps they won't just dish them out. Never used it though, I used to leave work early in my last trimester to make sure I got a seat, when I didn't I was never offered one, not even the priority seat
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05-08-2018, 20:29   #14
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I thought a case taken re Equality legislation meant they did not have priority over buggies?
"They" never had guaranteed availability of the Disabled Bay.

What the regulations provide for is that the Operators must provide the relevant Dedicated Space,the means of access to it (usually via a ramp) and the appropriate level of training for Staff who operate the service.

That ends the legal requirement for the Operator.

As it currently stands,a Busdriver MUST request (and be heard to Request) the Buggy owner to fold and stow the buggy to accomodate the Wheelchair user.

Should the Buggy Pusher refuse,then the matter ends there,and the Wheelchair Passenger is refused access.

This is the current situation in The REPUBLIC of IRELAND and up until March 2017,the UK.

In March 2017,following a lengthy series of Judgements and appeals in what is now known as the Paulley Case,the UK Busdriver is now required to venture further and ascertain a reason why the Buggy Pusher refuses,up to,and including Switching Off the Engine and waiting to see if that will prompt a rethink.

The salient point here,is that even under the new UK regulations,a Busdriver does NOT have the legal authority to force the Buggy Pusher to fold & stow.

The UK Supreme Court,not having many Busdrivers on it's bench, has now effectively exposed UK Busdrivers to significantly increased risk of confrontation and perhaps assault,when attempting to enforce the Court's ruling on the Streets.

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2015-0025.html

Quote:
The Supreme Court unanimously allows Mr Paulley’s appeal, albeit only to a limited extent.
Lord Neuberger gives the lead judgment (with which Lord Reed agrees) allowing the appeal but only to the extent that FirstGroup’s policy requiring a driver to simply request a non-wheelchair user to vacate the space without taking any further steps was unjustified. Where a driver who has made such a request concludes that a refusal is unreasonable, he or she should consider some further step to pressurise the non-wheelchair user to vacate the space, depending on the circumstances. Lord Toulson and Lord Sumption write concurring judgments. On the issue of the order to be made, this majority declines to uphold an award of damages.
The majority of NTA spec double deck vehicles now have TWO spaces,BOTH of which can be utilised by Occupied Buggies,with one space being approved for Wheelchairs.

The convention,and standing instruction for all Bus Atha Cliath Busdrivers is to advise the initial Buggy Pusher to occupy the clearly marked Buggy Space,just opposite the Centre Doors and behind the Stairwell.

This then leaves the Wheelchair space free for a second Occupied Buggy,whose pusher should be advised,on boarding that they WILL be asked to fold & stow the buggy should a Wheelchair user present for boarding.

By far and away the most confounding element in this scenario,is the NTA insistance on fitting a pair of Flip Down Seats in the Buggy Space.

These seats are viewed (mistakenly) as being intended for elderly or mobility challenged passengers...THEY ARE NOT. (The two seats behind ARE marked for that sector).

If the NTA would remove this pair of Flip Down seats from the new vehicle specification it would immediately improve the Access issue for BOTH Wheelchair AND Buggy users...Retro removing the seats would really solve up to 90% of the often fractious and ill tempered exchanges between Busdrivers and Passengers themselves.

Make it simple.....the simpler the better,and remove most of the "choice" available,as,left to their own devices,the average Human Being will choose what is most convienent for THEMSELVES.

It should be noted ,that in the immediate wake of the Paulley judgement,there was a spell of increased activity in the Irish context,which luckily did not last long.

It's probably not lost on Irish Public Transport Operators,that should an Irish Busdriver,embark upon the course of action now required by the UK Supreme Court Judgement a veritable Tsunami of Court Cases would ensue,focusing upon individuals being subject to excessive embarrassment,or personal stress by wild-eyed Busdrivers.

Mr Paulleys total award,following his initial successful case was £4,500,a sum which would be considered derisory in the Irish system,however the Supreme Court judgement failed to maintain the aware,leaving Mr Paulley with only the satisfaction of kinda,sorta winning the case ?

Heaven alone knows what will develop if our Courts get involved on this issue ?
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05-08-2018, 20:38   #15
tatranska
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Try getting a parent who has shopping and a young child in a buggy to somehow manage the bags, take the child( probably sleeping) out of the buggy and fold it.
It's absolute nonsense at its finest.
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