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07-09-2018, 14:54   #2821
Leroy42
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OK, Booker is a populist attention seeker, that wants to increase his profile to make a run at POTUS in the coming years. Not sure why you have a beef with that, that is what all of them are at.

So, why are the GOP withholding the docs in the 1st place, only releasing them when asked directly? It makes no sense. Are they really saying that everything is classified until such time as the DNC ask for it? And if the DNC don't ask for a specific doc can it simply be ignored? That is not how this is supposed to work. The senate is supposed to get access to all documents, not simply they ones the GOP want them to see or the ones the DNC already know about. What a strange process you seem to think this should be.

As for lying, well you really are stepping into a minefield with that one. Kavannagh is being accused of lying under oath. We know Sessions has, and Trump has told 4500+ an counting since he became POTUS.

And the above highlights one of the biggest issues that Trump supporters have, They cannot expect to be taken seriously on any point they raise when on that very issues they continue to stand fully behind a person and party so completely involved in it themselves. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
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07-09-2018, 15:05   #2822
everlast75
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I'm very interested in how a US Senator gets a free pass by lying about the release of the documents. All he had to do was release them without his dramatic Spartacus spiel. These document's were approved for release before his outburst and he was well aware of that fact. If a Republican Senator pulled that same stunt they would be lambasted on this forum.
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From what I have read online, I believe the Reps claimed that they let Booker know the docs would be released. However, a Rep senator on the floor told Booker not to discuss them, or what the ramifications would be (or words to that effect).

So if the docs were cleared, why would the Rep Senator say that?
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1038062874369896451

So which is it? Were the docs authorised to be released, or were they not?

Last edited by everlast75; 07-09-2018 at 15:10.
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07-09-2018, 15:10   #2823
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Originally Posted by Leroy42 View Post

As for lying, well you really are stepping into a minefield with that one. Kavannagh is being accused of lying under oath. We know Sessions has, and Trump has told 4500+ an counting since he became POTUS.

And the above highlights one of the biggest issues that Trump supporters have, They cannot expect to be taken seriously on any point they raise when on that very issues they continue to stand fully behind a person and party so completely involved in it themselves. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
You talk about hypocrisy.... your defending of Bookers falsehood is the very definition of same. You continually spout about how POTUS shouldn't do this or that as it demeans the office. Now a Senator lies to his peers and the public in an official confirmation hearing but that can be fobbed off with excuses. If there's proof that Kavanagh lied under oath then let it be presented. At least that would be a worthy reason to release classified material.
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07-09-2018, 15:15   #2824
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You talk about hypocrisy.... your defending of Bookers falsehood is the very definition of same. You continually spout about how POTUS shouldn't do this or that as it demeans the office. Now a Senator lies to his peers and the public in an official confirmation hearing but that can be fobbed off with excuses. If there's proof that Kavanagh lied under oath then let it be presented. At least that would be a worthy reason to release classified material.
Well, judging by the tweet above your post, that's not entirely clear.
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07-09-2018, 15:27   #2825
Leroy42
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I'm not defending anything, but it seems unclear as the exact sequence of events. I am asking why you seem so unmoved by the clear fact that the GOP attempted to hide documents? This is one of the greatest positions in the country, a life time appointment, an appointment that could impact each and every American for decades to come, and yet you have no issue with how the GOP are going about it.

Why not release the document in the 1st place?
Why was it considered confidential until requested by Booker?
What other documents exist that have been similarly classified yet, like those documents, incorrectly so?

But, and herein lies the key difference, if he did lie and he himself has stated that he is willing to suffer the consequences for his actions, then fine by me that he faces an inquiry. But we both know that won't happen. Not because Booker will use the apparatus of the state to get way with it, but the GOP are not going to launch an investigation into their shady dealings. The DNC would love that.

Exactly what consequences did Sessions suffer for lying under oath? What consequences has Trump suffered for his continual lying? And grand standing? And simply making up claims to try to get PR for himself?

Last edited by Leroy42; 07-09-2018 at 15:39.
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07-09-2018, 15:49   #2826
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You have to laugh at the WH.

There are literally hundreds of people who work there who could have written that article, opining that the President was unfit for office.
(What an indictment that is!)

So they are furious, talk about lie detector tests and sworn affidavits in order to lock this whole thing down.

They narrow down the suspects to 12....... and then that fact is leaked.

It would be hilarious if not so much worrying.
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07-09-2018, 15:58   #2827
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You have to laugh at the WH.

There are literally hundreds of people who work there who could have written that article, opining that the President was unfit for office.
(What an indictment that is!)

So they are furious, talk about lie detector tests and sworn affidavits in order to lock this whole thing down.

They narrow down the suspects to 12....... and then that fact is leaked.

It would be hilarious if not so much worrying.
Giuliani?(not sure if he is firing on all cylinders)
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07-09-2018, 16:58   #2828
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here's hoping for a decent sentence for oul George Papadopoulos "aka the coffee boy" today...

Another victim of the "Witch Hunt"!!!?
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07-09-2018, 17:31   #2829
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here's hoping for a decent sentence for oul George Papadopoulos "aka the coffee boy" today...

Another victim of the "Witch Hunt"!!!?

Wouldn't have a tremendous amount of sympathy alright. Was a voluntary interview and he seemed prone to mouthing off.



Would be more curious as to the Flynn sentencing. If they ever get around to it at this rate.
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07-09-2018, 18:08   #2830
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You talk about hypocrisy.... your defending of Bookers falsehood is the very definition of same. You continually spout about how POTUS shouldn't do this or that as it demeans the office. Now a Senator lies to his peers and the public in an official confirmation hearing but that can be fobbed off with excuses. If there's proof that Kavanagh lied under oath then let it be presented. At least that would be a worthy reason to release classified material.
We have to get to the root of the confidential documents ( that were not confidential at all) being released into the public domain when they were auhorised to be released in the public domain when.... err, what was the problem again?

Oh, that the Republicans have abused privilege to frustrate the proper due diligence expected in vetting SCOTUS nominations.

Dont let indignation allow you to lose sight of the real issue here.
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07-09-2018, 18:11   #2831
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I'm not misunderstanding the system; I'm disagreeing with your initial assertion. Here it is again:



We're not discussing the weird mechanics of how the USA elects its President; we're literally discussing "what the country wants". I'm arguing that if more people in a country vote for A than for B, then the country wants A. You're arguing that if the electoral college translates a majority for A into a win for B, then the country wants B.

I accept that Trump won. I accept that the electoral college is designed to replace the will of the people with a best-guess approximation of the will of the states based on an assortment of interpretations of the will of the peoples of those respective states. I don't accept that it can be meaningfully described as representing what the country wants.
That this post got 14 likes tells me that alot about the anti-Trumpers on here, that they dont actually understand the fundamental structure of the United States of America.
Which is ironic, considering they live in the European Union.

currently torn between watching Obama rewrite history on the mid-terms campaign trail in illinois or getting a $40K education via Kavanaughs senate hearings. Obama is stumbling thru his rhetoric trying to balance the nonsense that got him elected with the realism of the world today. He is getting a muted response, same as when Hilary went on the road, no passion, would put you to sleep.
Senate hearing it is,
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07-09-2018, 18:23   #2832
PropJoe10
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You have to laugh at the WH.

There are literally hundreds of people who work there who could have written that article, opining that the President was unfit for office.
(What an indictment that is!)

So they are furious, talk about lie detector tests and sworn affidavits in order to lock this whole thing down.

They narrow down the suspects to 12....... and then that fact is leaked.

It would be hilarious if not so much worrying.
He's asking Sessions to look at it now. Not exactly sure what the Justice Department has to do with someone giving an opinion on the state of the Trump presidency.
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07-09-2018, 18:36   #2833
Manic Moran
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We're not discussing the weird mechanics of how the USA elects its President; we're literally discussing "what the country wants". I'm arguing that if more people in a country vote for A than for B, then the country wants A. You're arguing that if the electoral college translates a majority for A into a win for B, then the country wants B.
The difference is that you are viewing the US as a singular body politic, a position which has nothing to substantiate it in either the documentation of the legal structure, nor its history.

To a point, this is understandable. The Constitution has designed the US to act as a single body to all countries outside the US. It specifically reserves foreign relations to the federal government. To all practical effect, the US is an 'it' to Ireland. That is not, however, how the US operates internally. There is not a single federal decision in which the US can be driven by a 'nationwide' opinion. I am as subject to the laws and constitution of California as you are to the laws and Constitution of Ireland (I presume you're in Ireland), and what goes in New York affects me every bit as much as what goes in Germany affects you. Basically not at all, we're effectively separate countries under a common umbrella. The direction of that umbrella goes is determined by the States guided by their people, not the people of the umbrella.

You can't say that the "US" wants something when you mistake what the US actually is.
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07-09-2018, 19:06   #2834
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Brilliant speech there by Obama. Really rebuked the GOP.
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07-09-2018, 19:19   #2835
 
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The Kavanagh hearing was hard to watch today. Weird having such emotional testimonies followed by fluff testimonies.

What sort of man do you have to be, to have 13 year old kid testify you.
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