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30-12-2017, 04:04   #46
wexfordman2
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Here is the response from the co.fort forum



Shock sensors or vibration sensors detect vibration

Those with a processor will analyse the vibration amplitude and duration and determine if it is a real "shock"
Those without processors give contacts but they will switch on and off very rapidly, and are prone to false alarms, eg a slight tap may cause it to trigger
For comfort to process these select the Vribraton zone type which has sensitivity = 20 ms so it can detect the transitions, but use a Zone Response Vibration Analyser in Default Responses. This makes an alarm if there are 3 activations within 30 seconss
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31-12-2017, 11:33   #47
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Frank,

Looks like cytech came back with a detailed reply to your post, see below copied and pasted :-


OK, it seems that HKC does claim "analyser" capability in every zone

However given that the panel inputs accept Open/Close contacts, the analysis capability is limited to measuring the duration and count of pulses, and not the actual strength or amplitude of the vibration.

In that case both Gross and Pulse count settings can be achieved with Comfort, although not under those names.

"Gross" level can be handled by the Zone Type sensitivity setting, from 20 ms to 800 ms (7 levels), is the duration of the activation. Lower values are for higher sensitivity and higher values for lower sensitivity.

Pulse count can be handled by the Vibration Analyser Response eg 3 counts in 30 seconds (both parameters can be changed) in the response. Hence Comfort gives fine tuning of the pulse count and timing compared to those which have fixed levels of pulse count like HKC.

These settings are useful when used with low cost vibration/shock sensors which have a ball and cup design and do not have inbuilt analysers


There are also many other shock sensors with analysers eg https://firesecurityproducts.com/pro.../GS620BN/61841

From that link, it describes exactly how Comfort handles it except Comfort has another adjustable variable of 30 seconds for the pulse counts

"The analysing capability has two separate detection criteria: gross attack and pulse count. The gross attack threshold is designed to react to a single blow, while pulse count alarms when a pre-selected number of smaller shocks, occuring within a 30 second timing interval is reached. Both detection levels can be adjusted so that the installlation can be fine tuned to the environment and fully tested using the walk test facility. This digital signal processing is designed to eliminate false alarms and assure reliable detection of all types of attacks."

Comfort can be used with either type of sensor.
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31-12-2017, 12:49   #48
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Thanks for the reminder, impressive level of response from Cytech, that bodes well.

As to the substance of the response, will be interested to hear others' perspectives, but to a layman like me it reads that the Zone Type sensitivity and Vibration Analyser Response settings provide sufficient configuration to ensure shock sensors can be used as part of an effective perimeter security system, very positive news.
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31-12-2017, 13:19   #49
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As to the substance of the response, will be interested to hear others' perspectives, but to a layman like me it reads that the Zone Type sensitivity and Vibration Analyser Response settings provide sufficient configuration to ensure shock sensors can be used as part of an effective perimeter security system, very positive news.
Let’s suppose for argument’s sake that the Cytech panel does not have analysed zones to an acceptable standard, this isn’t really an issue as 3rd party zone analyzers can easily be added.

Most installers in Ireland use HKC. They know these systems inside out and they have proved to be exceptionally reliable. For these reasons there is an understandable reluctance to change and therefore a motivation for some to find fault with other systems.

Remember, if an alarm company installers a number of panels that turn out be be unreliable it can be very costly. They also have to put considerable effort into learning a completely new system. It is much more convenient and less risky to find fault with another system.

Last edited by 2011; 31-12-2017 at 13:31.
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02-01-2018, 11:25   #50
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03-01-2018, 12:13   #51
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Let’s suppose for argument’s sake that the Cytech panel does not have analysed zones to an acceptable standard, this isn’t really an issue as 3rd party zone analyzers can easily be added.
I think the comprehensive nature of the Cytech response means we do no longer need to suppose: Comfort allows detection of gross and pulse attacks and provides configuration for both parameters. And even if it didn't, 3rd party boards could be used, but for now my Plan A will be to use the inbuilt Comfort functionality.

Quite impressed with the comprehensive and swift responses from Cytech, it bodes well that their customer service is good, which along with the powerful capabilities of their product is a strong combination.
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03-01-2018, 12:53   #52
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Hi,

Just to clarify, I have no relationship with comfort or cytech apart from being a happy user for nearly 20 years, just want to make sure that is clear.

To be fair to cytech, as I had also been posting queries from this thread into the comfort support forum and linked this thread, I think they simply came in due to that.
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07-01-2018, 10:24   #53
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Might be of interest, complete breakdown of comfort spec here on the comfort forum


http://www.comfortforums.com/forum16/4833.html
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07-01-2018, 13:46   #54
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Might be of interest, complete breakdown of comfort spec here on the comfort forum


http://www.comfortforums.com/forum16/4833.html
The forum is very informative, thanks.
It will be interesting to see how popular this alarm becomes in Ireland.
Cytech have certainly raised bar!
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08-10-2019, 12:21   #55
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Bumping a slightly old thread, but I'm wondering has anyone recently installed the Cytech Comfort system and how are they finding it? It seems a bit dated to look at so how does it stand up in modern times? Is it worth the extra price you pay over the likes of Yale or HTC?

I've just moved into an old house with no alarm at all, 3 bed 860 sq ft, 5/6 windows needing alarms, two doors, and a separate garage. I want to self install an alarm ASAP and will be doing a lot of renovation in the next couple of years so wired wouldn't be too awkward.

My requirements are:
Standalone, as in doesn't require an app or internet to function
At the same time good IoT funcionality, even if this means a bit of work/programming on my part.
Google Assistant integration (even if this needs a bit of effort).

I hope to install a standalone home automation system in the future, something like Velbus (the likes of Hue is too easy ) so something that talks to that would be preferable.

I like the Yale Smart Sync system and door lock integration and would have bought by now if it had full Google Assistant integration, I know people have got basic functionality working but that could all go in a future update. I'd prefer to not be completely tied into one ecosystem as well.

The Comfort seems like the most flexible, however it is on the pricey side. Also I can't make head nor tail of the local distributor's website so ordering might be difficult! Coouldn't find any info on sensors, does it use generic ones? Is it worth the extra cash and trouble of configuring? I enjoy that kind of thing but realistically have a lot of other work to do on the house so it can't be a major time sink.
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08-10-2019, 16:53   #56
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Originally Posted by TheChizler View Post
Bumping a slightly old thread, but I'm wondering has anyone recently installed the Cytech Comfort system and how are they finding it? It seems a bit dated to look at so how does it stand up in modern times? Is it worth the extra price you pay over the likes of Yale or HTC?

I've just moved into an old house with no alarm at all, 3 bed 860 sq ft, 5/6 windows needing alarms, two doors, and a separate garage. I want to self install an alarm ASAP and will be doing a lot of renovation in the next couple of years so wired wouldn't be too awkward.

My requirements are:
Standalone, as in doesn't require an app or internet to function
At the same time good IoT funcionality, even if this means a bit of work/programming on my part.
Google Assistant integration (even if this needs a bit of effort).

I hope to install a standalone home automation system in the future, something like Velbus (the likes of Hue is too easy ) so something that talks to that would be preferable.

I like the Yale Smart Sync system and door lock integration and would have bought by now if it had full Google Assistant integration, I know people have got basic functionality working but that could all go in a future update. I'd prefer to not be completely tied into one ecosystem as well.

The Comfort seems like the most flexible, however it is on the pricey side. Also I can't make head nor tail of the local distributor's website so ordering might be difficult! Coouldn't find any info on sensors, does it use generic ones? Is it worth the extra cash and trouble of configuring? I enjoy that kind of thing but realistically have a lot of other work to do on the house so it can't be a major time sink.
Hey chizler,

I have comfort, integrated with google.assistant, using a built in (on board) rpi, and also velbus, hue and nest. Not a recent install,.comfort is nearly 20 years in (with an upgrade about 10 years ago replaced the entire panel), and velbus has been in around ten years now also,.working with comfort from day 1 (one of the main reasons I chose velbus). Rpi and google assistant integration added about 18 months ago.

The system, both alarm and velbus work together, but also fully functional if either system should fail, and not dependent on internet connectivity either (except for google assistant integration). The on board RPI, can run bode red, home assistant or openhab etc.

Last edited by wexfordman2; 08-10-2019 at 20:30.
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08-10-2019, 21:40   #57
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Sounds ideal, you've just opened yourself to being pestered when I can't get something working! Did you go wired or wireless? Did you get it from the Irish distributer? Do you feel it's holding up well after 10 years?

Would you have an idea how much it would cost to get a basic 5 window 2 door panel controller and maybe a PIR setup? It's the initial outlay I'm concerned about, don't mind upgrading over the years as a hobby.
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08-10-2019, 23:00   #58
wexfordman2
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Sounds ideal, you've just opened yourself to being pestered when I can't get something working! Did you go wired or wireless? Did you get it from the Irish distributer? Do you feel it's holding up well after 10 years?

Would you have an idea how much it would cost to get a basic 5 window 2 door panel controller and maybe a PIR setup? It's the initial outlay I'm concerned about, don't mind upgrading over the years as a hobby.
I would buy from the uk site, I never bought from the irish site. Join the comfort forum also, loads of info there.

Wired, for everything, in fact all my sensors are standard wired.

It's a while since I bought anything but basic components you need would be

Main board (this has 8 inputs by default, and can be expanded later if you want).
Ucmpi (gives you ethernet programming access, and the rpi on board for node red, openhab etc).
Ucm velbus if you plan to deploy velbus (note your mains wiring and lightsiwtxh wiring will need to cater for this).
Keyoads (1 or 2)

Battery, pirs, door sensors etc, you can get locally, I would recommend the uk supplier fornthe comfort bits.


It is holding up very well imho,.as an alarm system incredibly stable and functional, as a smart home.controller, incredibly.stable.and reliable (mine has been controlling my lighting and heating (the heating is now nest though) solidly for 10 years).

Its.constantly getting firmware upgrades and new features (the rpi interface being the latest), and works very well with velbus and lots of other ha systems
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10-10-2019, 15:10   #59
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Thanks, I'll price the basic thing up and see what I want to do from there. Actually it's probably from your posts I've come to hear about Comfort and Velbus in the first place.

Any recommendations on where to draw the line between Comfort and Velbus? Comfort seems to have quite a lot of HA capabilities itself.
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10-10-2019, 23:10   #60
wexfordman2
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Thanks, I'll price the basic thing up and see what I want to do from there. Actually it's probably from your posts I've come to hear about Comfort and Velbus in the first place.

Any recommendations on where to draw the line between Comfort and Velbus? Comfort seems to have quite a lot of HA capabilities itself.

Comfort is extremely stable, both as an alarm system and as a home automation controller. I have pretty.much all of my automation logic running in comfort for a number of reasons

Stability
Integration (security sensors.such as pir and door sensors can be used for ha logic as well)
Simple logoc, if then else programming
Macro.functions etc van be triggered based on alarm status etc.

It is frankly.so.stable.that while there are options now to move.that logic elsewhere, it makes no sense to do so.

The ucm pi within comfort I use primarily for.getting google home integration to the panel, giving me voice control.over my entire.lighting,.heating and security system

I know the ucmpi can expand that even further,. I could integrate my solar Pv.system, hue lights etc, and I have played with it, but not had the time.to really dig into it.
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