[GM228]

To answer hullaballoo's question - yes the bye laws allow CIE to charge the full cost of the portion of the journey which had no ticket.

The Board shall be entitled to recover the full fare for the distance actually travelled by the offender without a ticket or other authority.

[Esel]

OP, you yourself pay for the Taxsaver ticket - not your employer!

From https://www.taxsaver.ie/Commuters/ (bolding mine)

"Introduced by the Government in 1999, Taxsaver incentivises people to use public transport to and from work. It’s so simple! Your employer registers for Taxsaver on taxsaver.ie and buys tickets for you. The cost is deducted directly from your salary, and you get to save between 29% and 52% on the regular price, depending on ticket type and your tax band."

[GM228]

Originally Posted by Esel

OP, you yourself pay for the Taxsaver ticket - not your employer!

From https://www.taxsaver.ie/Commuters/ (bolding mine)

"Introduced by the Government in 1999, Taxsaver incentivises people to use public transport to and from work. It’s so simple! Your employer registers for Taxsaver on taxsaver.ie and buys tickets for you. The cost is deducted directly from your salary, and you get to save between 29% and 52% on the regular price, depending on ticket type and your tax band."

If it's provided as Benefit in Kind only the employer pays.

[Indricotherium]

Originally Posted by Fred Swanson

In a DC case they would be very small esp given the amount claimed.

This is somewhat cavalier given that the op can't afford the initial fine.

[Esel]

Originally Posted by GM228

If it's provided as Benefit in Kind only the employer pays.

Oops!

[Fred Swanson]

This post has been deleted.

[lifeandtimes]

Hi op,

Just want to give you my own experience with Irish rail and matters of tagging on and their machine incorrectly reading my card.


http://touch.boards.ie/thread/205750.../#post97302078

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/205761...#post100115748

Turns out the day of court their barrister called me out and said they were withdrawing their application as I had been right all along.

Seems to me they'll try and get you to pay by any means like using their by laws etc before court but as soon as it comes to letting a judge with common sense decide they pull out.

Id say fight them all they way going by your experonce of know info to advise you of your jounry plus no signs of you doing anything wrong when you tag on and off and the confusion and inconsistencies in how of aa fine you actually but get legal advice of you're worried

Good luck

[hullaballoo]

Originally Posted by GM228

To answer hullaballoo's question - yes the bye laws allow CIE to charge the full cost of the portion of the journey which had no ticket.

That does not mean they can get both the fare paid plus the entirety of the fare that ought to have been paid. That's what they appear to be looking for here.

OP, just to confirm, you are going to a solicitor in relation to this yes?

[jimmycrackcorm]

Originally Posted by Laura4193

Yes I'm getting legal advice Thursday evening but I'm hoping it doesn't go as far as court.

It's say let them chase the funds and go to court if necessary. They may not follow up given you've already paid the give. It's not like you haven't paid anything, already having a monthly ticket. I couldn't see you getting anything worse from a judge.

Originally Posted by hullaballoo

That does not mean they can get both the fare paid plus the entirety of the fare that ought to have been paid. That's what they appear to be looking for here.

If anything it should only be the difference.

[Marcusm]

Originally Posted by hullaballoo

Does anyone know what powers IR have in relation to the recovery of unpaid fares? They are governed by their own set of laws but in the ordinary course, you'd think that they are only entitled to the difference between the fare paid and what ought to have been paid. That's how it would work with any private company seeking to recover this kind of debt. Unless they are specifically entitled to seek the full value of the fare that ought to have been paid without any kind of set-off in relation to the sums actually paid in respect of the trips, I find it hard to see how they could stand over the position that they are entitled to it?

Generally train companies, in my experience, follow a rule that you must at all times be in possession of an appropriate ticket for the entire journey you are taking. Failing that you are liable for a fine plus a standard fare (note not promotional or discounted or taking account of any part fare you may have) for the entire journey. There is arguably a penal element in this approach but in circumstances where, up until relatively recently in railway life, there were few means of capturing fare evaders, a sledgehammer was needed to encourage compliance.

What surprises me in all of this is, frankly, the thought process which could lead one to assume, having ordered a ticket from one station, that it was possible to simply embark on the journey from an earlier waypoint without at any stage considering that there might be a need to alter the ticket.

If through personal circumstances one omitted to rectify matters, I'd personally feel unable to assert unfair treatment.

[Marcusm]

Originally Posted by Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

To take the other side, Fred, would a DJ not be empowered to disregard a statement to the effect that "I was unaware that a ticket for a journey from Maynooth could not simply be equally valid from an earlier station" not be regarded as a pleading of mental incapacity.

Personally, I find it difficult to believe that an adult bestowed with a modicum of common sense and intelligence (i.e. Significantly less than prevailing in the public at large) would be unaware that they could not simply join the train at an earlier point without obtaining an additional ticket or permit to travel. I guess I am stating that I do not believe such a person could form an honest belief that they were not riding for free meaning that there was an intent to evade and 86 criminal acts. Perhaps I expect too much.

[Fred Swanson]

This post has been deleted.

[Impetus]

Ireland hasn't a clue about public transport. The public servant idiots involved just re-invent the wheel with dumb expensive ideas.

In Switzerland, if you want to go from a stop in the equivalent of D2 to D4, you need a two zone ticket because you are using D2 and D4 resources. It doesn't matter if you are using a bus, tram, train, boat whatever, or which stops you use to get on and off. You can combine modes - using a train from x to y and a tram from y to z.

If you want to go from D2 to D6, you need a three zone ticket because you are using zones D2 and D4 and D6.

LEAP Rfid cards have cost dozens of millions, as have the ticket barriers in mainline stations in Ireland. In Switzerland you just get a card and it says what zones, the period covered and the person's ID. A card could cover a few postal district equivalents of a city, the entire city, or the entire country or a canton. The only ticket checking in Switzerland - and virtually every other European country, takes place at random on the train. If your ticket is invalid, or you have none, it is CHF 100 charge. And you can buy the ticket on a mobile phone app or have it incorporated in a Visa or MasterCard. Switzerland has the most developed pubic transport system in the world. Instead of copying some good ideas from it, the Irish government and its servants prefer to create chaos and waste public money.

http://www.micro.sbb.ch/mobile/en/ho...eitere-en.html

Video: CH-Deutsche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDU7KTPty_w

Video 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f5RgaXc7pQ

Video 3 (shows drag and drop ticket buying)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S58brAYTNU

Who is the 'little old lady' doing her knitting? She is a senior vice president of SBB - Swiss Rail mobile app operations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1HVjZGo1-M

These ads are run on Swiss TV and internet to promote the use of the app and public transport in general. Everything is liked up. Unlike the case in Ireland.

[Marcusm]

Originally Posted by Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

I didn't suggest that they are pursuing although I guess their internal procedures preclude penalty notices without an actual interception on each occasion; by the same token, I think the OP would be getting off quite lightly. I certainly don't think IE are even trying to get it their own way. It is entirely conceivable for an infrequent user to make an error. To suggest that over a period of 4 months or more it did not occur to verify that the correct ticket was held is questionable in the extreme.

[lifeandtimes]

Originally Posted by Marcusm

To suggest that over a period of 4 months or more it did not occur to verify that the correct ticket was held is questionable in the extreme.

Op states they were not notified of any issues of validation when traveling through barriers and turnstiles etc this combined with the infrequent get on and get offs at the same station could have attributed to ops ignorance on the matter