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28-10-2014, 20:13   #1
OldmanMondeo
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Is Diesel washing dead?

So is the petrol stretching the new thing now? Have the managed to stop the diesel washing? Read some where about something new put into the diesel to stop the washing, but didn't get any more details.
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28-10-2014, 20:16   #2
Buttonftw
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Judging from the weekly reports around Dundalk alone of the waste cubes being dumped I don't think it is.
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28-10-2014, 22:12   #3
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Come to think of it there haven't been a thread in weeks..
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29-10-2014, 08:59   #4
munchkin_utd
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Judging from the weekly reports around Dundalk alone of the waste cubes being dumped I don't think it is.
could also be historical waste from years of being at diesel washing, and maybe the end game to hide all evidence.

if youre still washing diesel then keeping the gunk with the equipment makes sense as you want to keep evidence as compact as possible.
If no longer washing diesel, you dont want the gunk about the place as its the only evidence of what you were at.
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29-10-2014, 13:13   #5
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I thought I'd read somewhere that they either had, or were going to, introduce a new (cross-border) marking system which would effectively make diesel washing impossible.
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29-10-2014, 13:52   #6
munchkin_utd
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I thought I'd read somewhere that they either had, or were going to, introduce a new (cross-border) marking system which would effectively make diesel washing impossible.
yup

they are adding trace amounts of radioactive matter to green and red diesel which cannot be washed out (because you cannot "wash"/ neutralise radioactivity).

EDIT: here it is :
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-30282691.html

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The fuel smugglers already had one scientist working for them in fuel laundering and had been able to overcome all previous attempts to stop the washing and smuggling of "green" and "red" diesel.

They hired a further two scientists this year, but they have been unable to crack the new colourless marker, which is understood to contain a harmless radioactive element.
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29-10-2014, 15:46   #7
Chimaera
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The new markers are what are known as isotopic markers. They are fuel molecules that are modified to contain radio-isotopes of the elements in the molecule e.g. carbon 14 substituted for carbon 12 or oxygen 18 instead of oxygen 16. The can include more than one substitution, and effectively give the markers a unique signature too if they want to. So they might assign different markers to different warehouses and add in traceability to the system. These markers are extremely difficult to remove due to the fact that they are more or less identical chemically and physically to the fuel they're being added to. Separating them involves highly specialised and expensive equipment.

They are due to be introduced in January AFAIK.
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29-10-2014, 16:30   #8
mikeecho
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It will be interesting to see if certain stations that currently sell fuel cheaper than the local competition will continue to do so in the new year.
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29-10-2014, 16:34   #9
Alun
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The new markers are what are known as isotopic markers. They are fuel molecules that are modified to contain radio-isotopes of the elements in the molecule e.g. carbon 14 substituted for carbon 12 or oxygen 18 instead of oxygen 16. The can include more than one substitution, and effectively give the markers a unique signature too if they want to. So they might assign different markers to different warehouses and add in traceability to the system. These markers are extremely difficult to remove due to the fact that they are more or less identical chemically and physically to the fuel they're being added to. Separating them involves highly specialised and expensive equipment.

They are due to be introduced in January AFAIK.
Interesting. That article says it was already introduced in February of this year though?
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29-10-2014, 16:36   #10
mikeecho
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Interesting. That article says it was already introduced in February of this year though?
Probably introduced to limited batches for testing purposes I would imagine.
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29-10-2014, 16:40   #11
tayto lover
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There is something very suspicious about the whole laundering saga.

Why don't the Customs just check garages and shut down the ones found selling the laundered diesel or petrol. Very simple and obvious solution but it's not being done.
Why keep checking cars, vans and lorries when they could just check garages and stop the problem there?
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29-10-2014, 16:43   #12
mikeecho
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Some would suggest that fuel laundering was allowed to continue in order for the provos to maintain an income following the good friday agreement.

It was a unwritten sweetener to keep certain elements form taking up arms.
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29-10-2014, 17:33   #13
Cleveland Hot Pocket
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Some would suggest that fuel laundering was allowed to continue in order for the provos to maintain an income following the good friday agreement.

It was a unwritten sweetener to keep certain elements form taking up arms.
Derry you're really entertaining us!
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29-10-2014, 17:43   #14
Damien360
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The new markers are what are known as isotopic markers. They are fuel molecules that are modified to contain radio-isotopes of the elements in the molecule e.g. carbon 14 substituted for carbon 12 or oxygen 18 instead of oxygen 16. The can include more than one substitution, and effectively give the markers a unique signature too if they want to. So they might assign different markers to different warehouses and add in traceability to the system. These markers are extremely difficult to remove due to the fact that they are more or less identical chemically and physically to the fuel they're being added to. Separating them involves highly specialised and expensive equipment.

They are due to be introduced in January AFAIK.
Talking to the customs guys in state lab a few months ago as we were trying it get them to buy equipment for this test. As he said, if you can add it in, it is only a matter of time before someone figures how to take it out.

What he could not answer is how a roadside test would identify it as it is a colourless marker.

The test for this is by GCMS. Very low trace levels of marker added. Marker not added generally until new year but setting up analysis for prosecution well way.

Myself, I think masking agents would be a way to hide the marker presence in chromatogram. Would have it have same ions and close chemical structure.
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29-10-2014, 18:19   #15
mikeecho
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Derry you're really entertaining us!

i know it sounds far fetched, but it is very rare that anyone is ever caught at a diesel laundering site
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