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12-10-2012, 13:55   #16
paddy147
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Gas is highest,by a mile.

Coal is 2nd highest.

interesting.


But Im wondering what source they use for the power/charging points around the country???

Thanks for that.
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12-10-2012, 13:59   #17
Heroditas
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G


But Im wondering what source they use for the power/charging points around the country???

Thanks for that.

Not being smart but you do know how the network works, don't you?
You can't isolate one type of fuel source.
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12-10-2012, 14:10   #18
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Anyone interested in a solar carport can pm me for details. Exempt planning if under 25 sq m footprint and does not extrude from the line of the front if the house...
I'm sure most of us would be interested [int he tech]. Publish here?
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12-10-2012, 21:19   #19
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In the all-island market:
Gas - 64%
Coal - 16%
Renewables - 12%
Peat - 6%
Oil - 1.6%
Other - 0.4%
This looks slightly out if date, renewables is heading to somewhere between 16-17 % this year.
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12-10-2012, 21:39   #20
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Thanks for all the replies. I've looked at the Renaults and the cheaper purchase price seems attractive for sure, but the battery rental is a bit of a problem. In essence I would be swapping a small enough petrol charge per month for a slightly smaller battery rental.

Admittedly/hopefully I would end up 8 years later with a new (new technology and more efficient) battery while the Leaf owners would end up with a large partially charging battery they need to dispose of or re-purpose and a new battery to buy.

I've had my original question (about the charging prices) answered and I'm happy enough to discuss the merits or otherwise of EVs in the motor forum rather than fill up this forum with motoring issues. I still think Nissan are being a bit optimistic in their 1c/km pricing. Using Quentins pricing of 7.3c/kWh it still works out at 1.095c/km. It may seem trivial, but it's almost 10% different. That's like saying 33mpg when it's actually (and measurably) 30mpg. I know you wouldn't run the battery down to 0 charge, but the ratios should still stay the same - use half a battery charge to travel half the distance and recharge with half the electricity - the electricity consumed over the distance travelled will remain the same.

maddragon - if we go down the EV route, I may well make contact about the car port option.

z
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12-10-2012, 23:55   #21
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I think the charging points are really just for emergencies, or the odd trip where you need to recharge. I haven't even bothered to get the cable for it. A range of 75 miles daily covers our needs, and we always recharge at night, when the balance of energy sources is zero peat and a lot more renewables. And cheaper of course.

So the breakdown above is hopefully irrelevant for most EVs.

By the way, if you put solar panels on your carport, you would be doing the environment a favour by sending that to the grid, and then taking back the power at night. During the daytime you are displacing peat production, at night you're often sucking up surplus wind power. Solar should get a better feed in tariff because by and large, it produces energy when people need it most.
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13-10-2012, 21:43   #22
Heroditas
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Originally Posted by Heroditas View Post
In the all-island market:
Gas - 64%
Coal - 16%
Renewables - 12%
Peat - 6%
Oil - 1.6%
Other - 0.4%
This looks slightly out if date, renewables is heading to somewhere between 16-17 % this year.

It's the figures currently being used on energy bills that have been mandated/approved by the CER.
The figures are due to be updated soon.
I did drop the figures to the right of the decimal point in a few places though.
Also, the figures are all-island, not ROI.
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13-10-2012, 23:34   #23
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We're investigating getting an EV (electric vehicle) at the moment and trying to work out the figures.

I've see Nissan say that the operating cost is 1c/km. I've just worked out that my current car is costing me about 16.c/km so this looks like a good saving.

However, no matter what I do I can't see where they are getting this 1c/km cost from *in Ireland*.

Here's the rough figures -
*Battery capacity is listed as 24kWh - more or less consistent with their figure of 8 hours to charge using a 3.3kW charging system
*Electricity at the moment from most suppliers is in or around the 17c/kWh rate
*A 24kWh charge @ 17c/kWh equals a cost to charge of about €4
*A full charge is supposed to get you 100 miles or 160 km, so this works out at about 2.55c per km

I can't see any way to get this down anywhere near a cost of 1c/km unless I'm missing something fundamental. Does anyone know something about the calculations that I'm overlooking ?

z

p.s. one thing that they *might* be taking into account, but I've seen no reference to in Ireland is using solar for charging, in which case the cost to charge would approach zero given the right conditions. Does anyone know how feasible solar (or wind) is for trickle charging EVs ?
I posted some thoughts on my Nissan Leaf a while ago, I included some real world data on energy costs. Take a look if you're interested.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...6&postcount=21
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13-10-2012, 23:43   #24
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Thanks for all the replies. I've looked at the Renaults and the cheaper purchase price seems attractive for sure, but the battery rental is a bit of a problem. In essence I would be swapping a small enough petrol charge per month for a slightly smaller battery rental.

Admittedly/hopefully I would end up 8 years later with a new (new technology and more efficient) battery while the Leaf owners would end up with a large partially charging battery they need to dispose of or re-purpose and a new battery to buy.
Carlos Ghosn (CEO of Renault/Nissan) reckons the battery will still have significant value in its post car life.



I think battery rental is a poor option. Not owning the battery cuts you off from all the future uses you could use it for. Already you can use a Nissan Leaf to run your house in Japan.

http://www.geekosystem.com/leaf-to-home-electric-car/

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More interesting is the charger’s ability to keep the Leaf connected to the power grid as a power source. In this scenario, the charging station recharges the vehicle at night when demand for power is lower, and draws some power from the vehicle during the day when demand for power peaks. This could not only help lower electricity bills for a household, but could also improve efficiency across the grid.
In 5+ years when you feel that 80 or 90 percent is not good enough and you want a new battery, you could have the old pack installed in your home. Charge it at night and run your home during the day on night rate electricity. That is of course if you own the battery pack. The pack is designed to output up to 90kw, running a home is a doddle in comparison.
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15-10-2012, 13:13   #25
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do we not consume nuclear energy via the interconnector across the irish sea ?
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15-10-2012, 13:50   #26
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do we not consume nuclear energy via the interconnector across the irish sea ?
The UK is a nett importer of power.

Interconnectors supply 2% of their electricity, twice what hydro provides.

This means our electricity will get greener as we have a ready market for any surplus
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15-10-2012, 21:02   #27
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The UK is a nett importer of power.

Interconnectors supply 2% of their electricity, twice what hydro provides.

This means our electricity will get greener as we have a ready market for any surplus
I think people are vastly overestimating the "surplus" wind we will have. The main economic argument for the EWIC has always been that its enhances our security of supply, meaning we can knock off an inefficient peaking plant or part loaded CCGT as well as bringing more competition to our market.
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15-10-2012, 22:59   #28
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There's only one coal powered plant in Ireland and it only runs when it's cheaper than other options.
That's nonsense moneypoint is a baseload plant, and can produce cheaper than wind. Also as you say its output is reduced when the wind blows its effiency nose dives so wind is responsible for the extra carbon it emits.


Paddy wind blows at night when the cars are being charged. Plan is for them to use the spare capacity at night to make for a more efficient grid.
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16-10-2012, 07:16   #29
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Moneypoint's output is currently determined by the price of carbon.
Carbon is so low at the moment that Money point is displacing CCGT plants off the system.
It's a bit of a weird situation.
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17-10-2012, 07:53   #30
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Originally Posted by zagmund View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I've looked at the Renaults and the cheaper purchase price seems attractive for sure, but the battery rental is a bit of a problem. In essence I would be swapping a small enough petrol charge per month for a slightly smaller battery rental.

Admittedly/hopefully I would end up 8 years later with a new (new technology and more efficient) battery while the Leaf owners would end up with a large partially charging battery they need to dispose of or re-purpose and a new battery to buy.

I've had my original question (about the charging prices) answered and I'm happy enough to discuss the merits or otherwise of EVs in the motor forum rather than fill up this forum with motoring issues. I still think Nissan are being a bit optimistic in their 1c/km pricing. Using Quentins pricing of 7.3c/kWh it still works out at 1.095c/km. It may seem trivial, but it's almost 10% different. That's like saying 33mpg when it's actually (and measurably) 30mpg. I know you wouldn't run the battery down to 0 charge, but the ratios should still stay the same - use half a battery charge to travel half the distance and recharge with half the electricity - the electricity consumed over the distance travelled will remain the same.

maddragon - if we go down the EV route, I may well make contact about the car port option.

z
Just a tip Zagmund. We bought our Citroen C Zero as a one year old used model in the UK. You can pick them up there for about STG£12K. The dealers took in demo models a while back and are selling them off. There are Leafs there too. I'd have a look at the UK market.

Just be aware of one thing - cars with less than 3000 miles up are liable to VAT at import, even though EVs are zero excise.
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