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14-09-2012, 19:18   #1
ophelia17
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rights to ownership of family home

I live in a family home lent to me by my father for the past 5 years, we also have a famliy.
Older siblings from a previous marriage are now questioning ownership and when we are we leaving as when he passes away they want it sold to divide the assets from the sale.
Do we have any rights at all-we do not pay rent
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14-09-2012, 21:04   #2
Milk & Honey
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Originally Posted by ophelia17 View Post
I live in a family home lent to me by my father for the past 5 years, we also have a famliy.
Older siblings from a previous marriage are now questioning ownership and when we are we leaving as when he passes away they want it sold to divide the assets from the sale.
Do we have any rights at all-we do not pay rent
You have no rights as such. If your father wants you to have the house when he passes away he should make provision for it in his will.
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15-09-2012, 08:46   #3
The_Conductor
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It sounds very much as though you are asking about squatting laws, and the law of adverse possession- given you have full and sole enjoyment of the property without payment of rent.

In Ireland there was a 2007 case brought to the European Court following an incident of squatting on CIE owned land. It delivered a judgement that means Irish law has now diverged from UK law. You would need 12 years of continuous sole possession of a property- to be considered to have acquired 'adverse possession' of the property. The judgement though clarified what is mean by sole possession- and set a very low threshold. If the owner of the property visits the property at any stage in the cycle- in this instance- if your father visited the house- the clock on the 12 years of adverse possession is reset- and starts anew.

Presumably your father visits from time to time- so your 'sole possession' of the asset is in law for a very short period of time.

If your father intends you to have the asset on his death- he *needs* to will it to you- there is no way around this. If he does not- your siblings have a legal expectation of a portion of the realisable value of the property (and if a family member wished to keep the property- it would have to be at fair market value, and the proceeds apportioned to the other children).

If your father intends you to have the house- he *needs* to will it to you.
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15-09-2012, 09:38   #4
Bigcheeze
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Presumably he could also grant an interest in the property allowing you to live there rent free for the rest of your life or until your children turn 18 for example.
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15-09-2012, 10:19   #5
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Presumably he could also grant an interest in the property allowing you to live there rent free for the rest of your life or until your children turn 18 for example.
Recipe for a trip to the High Court- esp given that the other family members are already angsty as things are.

In my opinion the best course of action- would be to put the property on the open market- determine what the level of interest is- and either accept the open market offer from a third party- or match it, in which case the gross amount gets split amongst the family members.

You're going to have problems here- regardless of what you do. The father has to make a will- or accept that his estate will be frittered away on legal fees by the various family members.
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15-09-2012, 13:55   #6
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Presumably he could also grant an interest in the property allowing you to live there rent free for the rest of your life or until your children turn 18 for example.
Recipe for a trip to the High Court- esp given that the other family members are already angsty as things are.

In my opinion the best course of action- would be to put the property on the open market- determine what the level of interest is- and either accept the open market offer from a third party- or match it, in which case the gross amount gets split amongst the family members.

You're going to have problems here- regardless of what you do. The father has to make a will- or accept that his estate will be frittered away on legal fees by the various family members.
Even if the father makes a will the other siblings can still claim they were unfairly treated and can pursue through the courts for a percentage of the estate. If your father really wants you to have sole ownership of the property he should gift it to you and have the deeds transferred to your name while he is still alive.
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15-09-2012, 14:45   #7
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It sounds very much as though you are asking about squatting laws, and the law of adverse possession- given you have full and sole enjoyment of the property without payment of rent.
Doesn't squatting and adverse possession only come into it if you are there specifically without the permission of the owner, which would not be the case here?
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15-09-2012, 15:56   #8
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Even if the father makes a will the other siblings can still claim they were unfairly treated and can pursue through the courts for a percentage of the estate. If your father really wants you to have sole ownership of the property he should gift it to you and have the deeds transferred to your name while he is still alive.
Good advice- wills are not the be all and end all that people think they are. They are challenged legally all the time and if a judge thinks other family members are treated unfairly then they can (and often do) rule over the person in the grave. Pretty sure the Dunnes family had a legal dispute a few years back.

OP the fairest way to do this is to get an open market value for the house and for you to buy the others out.

If it is the case that your father wants you and you alone to have the house (which inevitably is going to result in a lot of arguments) then the vehicle to use is a trust- make sure you get specialised legal advice on this as different trusts have different advantages / disadvantages. but the main thing is that the person responsible for executing the trust is someone who both you and him can trust 110%. Someone outside of the family would be best- a long standing solicitor who is removed from the emotion of it all would be better than an aunt or uncle in a lot of instances.
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