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Minister asks RTE for an overview report on Saorview coverage in Cork
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30-04-2012 1:34am#1In a topical issues debate in the Dáil last Wednesday the Minister said in reply to TD Jim Daly that he has asked RTÉ for an overview report on Saorview coverage issue in the Cork area once analogue transposers, self-help community systems and deflectors are switched off later this year.Topical Issue Debate - Television Reception
Wednesday, 25 April 2012
Deputy Jim Daly: I acknowledge the presence in the Chamber of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, to hear this presentation. The analogue television system is changing and we are moving to Saorview. The Minister has spoken in the House and responded to parliamentary questions on this topic from my colleague, Deputy Brendan Griffin. It is a big issue for people in west Cork and west Kerry in particular. RTE and Saorview have written to me confirming that 98% of the people in the country will be able to avail of the new service but 2% will not. Unfortunately, for those in west Cork and west Kerry, that 2% is primarily in our bailiwick and we are not satisfied.
An alternative arrangement is Saorsat, providing television services to the 2% not covered by Saorview. In total, 120 locations will be affected. Saorsat incurs significant costs for homeowners who wish to avail of it. Each household must pay €300 for Saorsat in comparison to the costs of those using Saorview. That amounts to three times the household charge foisted on many of my constituents in west Cork.
In addition, viewers will not receive the same service because they can only avail of two channels – RTE 1 and RTE 2 - and will not receive TV3 or TG4. The area has a proud sporting tradition, to which west Kerry has also contributed, and a language tradition so it is particularly ironic that we cannot receive TG4 in west Cork and west Kerry. It is a damning indictment of the proposals before us.
It is discriminatory that my constituents must pay an additional €300 when they will receive only half the service provided to their counterparts in the rest of the country. I appreciate that the Minister will say this is an operational matter for RTE but we know the relationship between the State and RTE. Furthermore, the licence there has been paid for years by the good people of Ireland. In west Cork, we have had many issues with RTE reception over the years. In Leap, a village near where I live, people fought for 20 years to get the RTE service. I was a teacher in Leap national school and one of the first essays I gave the children was on what the arrival of TV3 meant to them. I received a string of letters the next day welcoming me to Leap and telling me that they had only just received RTE 1 in the past six months. They spent 20 years trying to get the RTE service and fighting the good cause. They raised funds and had their own aerial erected eventually. RTE came on board eventually but now these people are being cut off. I plead with the Minister to talk to RTE about this matter, which involves cost. I do not want to see my constituents discriminated against.
Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): I thank Deputy Jim Daly for raising this matter, which is undoubtedly a challenge and an issue on which we are focusing much attention. I am not setting out to deprive the children of Leap of their access to television; rather, the signal is being switched off across Europe and we do not have a choice in the matter. The challenge is to manage efficiently the switch off and the move to digital.
RTE has built, owns and controls the Saorview TV network and is responsible for the roll-out, coverage and operation of that network. This is in accordance with Part 8 of the Broadcasting Act 2009, which provides that the development of the RTE network is an operational matter for RTE and therefore not one in which I, as Minister, have a function. However, I have had enquiries made in regard to the situation in west Cork as raised by the Deputy and can now provide the following information. Section 130 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 Act provides that RTE must roll out a national digital TV network to the same extent as its existing analogue network. In this regard, I understand from RTE that the analogue network covers 98% of the population and the Saorview network will also provide 98% population coverage.
Work has been ongoing across the country to prepare the transmission sites for the move from analogue to digital terrestrial television. However, it is virtually impossible to cover 100% of the population by terrestrial means. Reasons for this include local topography, for example. While cover from a terrestrial network can never reach 100% of the population, RTE is conscious of the needs of communities and is making efforts to ensure areas with larger population centres are provided with the Saorview service. These areas include Glenties, Bandon, Carlingford and Dingle.
In addition to Saorview, RTE has developed Saorsat, a new free-to-air satellite service unique to Ireland to ensure the RTE television services are available to the remaining 2% of the population. Currently, Saorsat provides access to the RTE channels. TG4 will be available shortly. TV3 has not yet made a decision on carriage of the service. As soon as the decision is made, I will let the House know. RTE is not obliged to provide this satellite service and is doing so on its own initiative. I am informed that with this satellite service, Ireland will have a national TV network covering 100% of the population for the first time.
To provide further clarification to the House, I have been informed by RTENL that certain parts of Ireland, including west Cork have been serviced by transposers, self-help community systems and deflectors. These are not being replaced or upgraded by RTENL. Also, the license for the analogue system on which these community systems, transposers and deflectors operates expires at the end of 2012. Homes that currently receive television signals from these systems will have to adjust their aerials to point to a Saorview transmission site and some homes may need to use Saorsat. Should the Deputy have further questions about specific areas, I am happy to pass them on to RTE on his behalf. Information on coverage is available from the dedicated Saorview website www.saorview.ie. Information on Saorsat is available on www.rtenl.ie.
Deputy Jim Daly: I appreciate the Minister’s response and thank him for coming into the House to deal with this issue. The challenge I wish to bring up is that while nationally 98% of the population is unaffected by this, unfortunately in my area 98% of the people will be affected and only 2% will not be affected. The inverse applies in my area and that makes the situation difficult to deal with.
I appreciate the Minister’s response, it contains some helpful pointers. It is progress that TG 4 will become available. I will take up the issue of some of the deflectors in the area with RTE, but there are additional costs and many people will end up having to get the Saorsat service. The majority of my constituents who will have to get the Saorsat service will have to fork out an additional €300 or go to SKY, where the basic package is approximately €288 a year. Therefore, it is much of a muchness financially. My constituents will be at a big disadvantage when this happens, but that is not what I wish to see for them. I thank the Minister for his response and will take him up on the offer to engage in further communication on this.
Deputy Pat Rabbitte: There are technical and topographical obstructions in the way of 100% coverage and I have sympathy for those in the situation described by Deputy Daly. I have asked RTENL to look constructively at this issue and at the problems arising, before the switch-off takes place, with a view to seeing what can be done for the viewers to whom Deputy Daly refers. As a result of him raising this issue today, I have asked RTE for an overview report on coverage in Cork and I will be happy to share that with Deputy Daly when it comes to hand. The Saorview network will cover virtually all - but not all - properties in the country. What is true of the digital network is also true of the analogue network, which did not cover 100% either. Saorsat is there as a fallback or fill-in solution to reach areas the network cannot reach.
Saorview and RTENL held an open day briefing for all Deputies and Senators a couple of weeks ago in a venue adjacent to this building, but, unfortunately, the event was not well attended. I do not know whether that was because it was not well advertised or because Members were otherwise busy. Perhaps that event should be repeated if colleagues feel it is necessary. It is important to acknowledge that RTE is putting an investment of some €70 million into this initiative. One would not have been able to rely on the private sector to invest that kind of money in coping with the switch-off across Europe. This is a good example of how a State company can provide essential infrastructure in circumstances where similar investment would not be forthcoming from the private sector.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/04/25/00019.asp
The request from Deputy Daly for a Dáil debate on the difficulty in accessing Saorview in large areas of west Cork follows on from an article in the Southern Star newspaper the weekend before which looked at the issue of the loss of terrestrial television once their local analogue transmitter is switched off next OctWest Cork TV viewers may be short-changed
By Leo McMahon Saturday April 21st, 2012
[...]
Charlie Madden said local TD Jim Daly had already taken up the issue on his behalf and referred to what he described as the ‘gobbledegook’ reply he received from Saorview.
http://www.southernstar.ie/article.php?id=3382
The debate in the Dáil was reported in last Friday's Irish ExaminerRabbitte orders Saorview probe over signal fears
By Sean O’Riordan
Friday, April 27, 2012
Communications Minister Pat Rabbitte has ordered RTÉ to review its rollout of Saorview digital TV after claims that hundreds, if not thousands, of homes in West Cork will be denied the service, which is being switched on in October.
Concerns have been raised about the reception in parts of Rosscarbery, Reenascreena, Leap, Timoleague, Dunmanway, and Skibbereen.
Mr Rabbitte ordered the review after he was petitioned by Cork South West TD Jim Daly.
[...]
Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rabbitte-orders-saorview-probe-over-signal-fears-191978.html
Interesting bit at the end of the debate where he says a Saorview open-day was held for TDs and Senators near Leinster House but wasn't well attended but could be repeated if members required. I think come Sept/Oct our representatives may be getting a lot more queries regarding Saorview/Saorsat/ASO from their constituents as the analogue switchoff date draws closer, that might be a good time to hold an open-day.2
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Dáil question on this the following dayOther Questions - Broadcasting Services
Thursday, 26 April 2012
139. Deputy Michael McCarthy asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if his attention has been drawn to concerns among many people in west Cork who will not be able to receive the new Saorview service once analogue television is discontinued on 24 October 2012; if he will consider that the option being made available to them in purchasing an individual receiver is not viable in view of the cost involved and the limited channels offered; his plans to make provisions for persons adversely affected by the switchover; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21064/12]
Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): RTÉ has built, owns and controls the SAORVIEW TV network and is also responsible for the coverage and operation of that SAORVIEW network. In accordance with Part 8 of the Broadcasting Act 2009, the development of the RTÉ network is an operational matter for RTÉ and not one in which I, as Minister, have a function.
I have, however, had enquiries made in regard to the situation in West Cork as raised by the Deputy and can now provide the following information.
The Broadcasting Act 2009 Act provides that RTÉ must roll out SAORVIEW to the same extent as its existing analogue network. In this regard, I understand from RTÉ that the analogue network covers 98% of the population and the SAORVIEW network will also provide 98% population coverage.
In addition to SAORVIEW, RTÉ has developed SAORSAT, a new ‘free-to-air’ satellite service unique to Ireland to ensure the RTÉ TV services are available to the remaining 2% of the population. Currently, SAORSAT provides access to the RTÉ channels. TG4 will be available shortly. TV3 has not yet made a decision as to their carriage on the service. RTÉ is not obliged to provide a satellite service and is doing so on its own initiative. I am informed that, with this satellite service Ireland will have a national TV network covering 100% of the population, for the first time.
In relation to areas of West Cork, I have been informed by RTÉNL that community deflector systems are not being replaced or upgraded by RTÉNL. Community deflector systems are managed by communities and not RTÉ. Also, it is my understanding that ComReg has indicated that the analogue licenses for these systems will cease at the end of 2012. Homes that currently receive television signals from these systems will have to adjust their aerials to point to a SAORVIEW transmission site and some homes may need to use SAORSAT. Should the Deputy have further questions about specific areas, I am happy to pass them to RTÉ on his behalf for direct reply.
I am very much aware of the challenges digital switchover brings, in particular for households that are reliant on the existing “free to air” analogue TV network. We have chosen to use outreach and marketing schemes to provide the assistance and support necessary for people to make the switch. As I have stated in previous questions, we have not and do not propose to introduce grant schemes for this purpose.
Experience from other European countries indicates that the cost of set top boxes and other digital receivers reduces as the date for digital switchover approaches, and there is increased competition in the market. There is clear evidence that this is now happening in Ireland with affordable set top boxes that meet the SAORVIEW standard on the market, as well as a range of suitable digital televisions. In addition, experience from other European countries also shows that the availability of accurate and reliable information and the provision of practical assistance is the most effective approach towards assisting people in making the switch to digital television.
In this regard, therefore, to overcome the challenges that digital switchover brings, I have undertaken to deliver a substantial information campaign providing households with information on the digital switchover and on their options for going digital. This information campaign commenced in quarter four 2011. There are a number of strands to the campaign including a national telephone helpline and a national advertising and public relations campaign. An information booklet will also be delivered to every house in the country. The campaign will run up to the end of 2012.
In conjunction with this, my Department has been working to address the particular information and assistance needs of vulnerable households as they prepare to go digital. On January 10th 2012 I signed an agreement with a national voluntary organisation, the Wheel, to develop and operate a nationwide community outreach digital switchover programme (Outreach Programme).
Community umbrella group - The Wheel, in conjunction with voluntary and community organisations throughout the country, has begun to roll out a countrywide Outreach Programme in April/May 2012, which will provide additional assistance and advice at community level to those who may find the move to digital TV difficult. The aim of the Outreach Programme is to ensure that everybody is made aware of the switchover and that no TV viewers are left without a TV service once the national analogue TV service switches off on October 24th 2012. A press release issued on the Outreach Programme and is available on the dedicated digital switchover website www.goingdidital.ie as is the list of local champions referred to above.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/04/26/00130.asp#N20 -
Taking the issue to a new levelTHE lack of proper Saorview coverage across large areas of West Cork is set to be raised with the European Union in Brussels following the intervention of an MEP.
The issue was first flagged by local Fine Gael TD Jim Daly and now Labour MEP Phil Prendergast has vowed to find out from Europe if leaving large areas without a terrestrial TV service after the digital switch over is actually legal.
[...]
http://westcorktimes.com/home/?p=79370 -
Could it be that the penny has finally dropped with someone (other than installers) that there are a lot of problems regarding Saorview that have been swept under the carpet in the hope of reaching Oct 25th when Saorview staff are redeployed to other areas in RTE?0
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Similar concerns in WaterfordWednesday, 9th May 2012
Fianna Fáil Waterford County Cllr Michael J O'Ryan has called on the Minister for Communications Pat Rabbitte TD, to lobby RTÉ immediately to review its Saorview digital TV service.
Concerns have been raised in areas of County Waterford regarding the reception from the new digital service, with many fearing they will lose access to terrestrial TV once Saorview goes live in October. This has been echoed at public meetings in West Cork recently.
http://www.waterford-today.ie/waterford-today-news/16577-rural-saorview-customers-need-proper-signal-oryan-16577.html0 -
I seriously doubt raising questions about Saorview coverage at EU level will get anywhere - as coverage is expected to approx. 98% of the population at analogue switch off, coverage would be deemed effectively "full" and in some cases fringe and out-of-area reception could be achieved with better aerial set ups.
Within the EU other than very small countries like Luxembourg and Malta, 100% terrestrial coverage is accepted as impossible. When DSO is complete in the UK, the population covered by the PSB multiplexes is estimated to be 98.5%, with 98% in Northern Ireland. There's something I remember about the French TNT service only planned to cover 85% of the French population too - I don't know if that changed in the run up to their analogue shut down last year, but the general advice to others was to say "go use satellite".
Most European countries now have a satellite broadcast system now in place for people to watch at least their PSB channels either FTA or FTV where no cable system or usable terrestrial signal exists, and RTÉNL have responded themselves with Saorsat which as pointed out by Pat Rabbite was not mandated on RTÉ.
It is unfortunate for these residents in parts West Cork (and seemingly parts of Kerry & Waterford) that appear to be in a black spot of Saorview coverage but there's no reason why special treatment should be given to them over other communities across the republic in similar circumstances for securing additional resources of coverage with what is available at present. Perhaps current "deflector" systems in place there could be re-engineered to rebroadcast Saorview as self-help relays with respective licencing being fast-tracked.0 -
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the local radio interview of last Friday 4th May with Jim Daly TD regarding Saorview coverage in west Cork and Saorsat available here (then press Play button):
http://soundcloud.com/tvlopt/saorviewc103jimdaly0 -
Looking at the coverage map there are areas larger than Dublin city that will be without terrestrial signal after DSO, it is unfair to the people in these areas to expect them to have to take the most expensive route of getting satellite installed. Its been pointed out so many times on boards that most people will have just get a receiver and even that a lot will only need a rabbits ears for reception but there are large parts of Donegal, Galway, Kerry, Cork, Tipperary Waterford, Wicklow and more counties which will not get terrestrial signal. At 98% population coverage it still leaves almost 100,000 people without terrestrial signal and the area of Ireland covered is a lot less than 98%.0
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Yet RTENL claims DTT coverage is already better than Analogue (which may be true for RTE1 & 2, quite plausible for TG4 and totally true for TV3) but it's not the SAME coverage (certainly true).
No country anywhere can do 100% terrestrial coverage. That's why UK has Freesat and will not migrate back to Sky FTV card (a temporary solution). It's also why C5 was on Analogue Satellite.
I think coverage figures are always Fixed reception population, never mobile or geographic.
Also don't confuse Population with households.
My estimate was that perhaps 3% of households would need Saorsat if none had Sky or UPC (some will have). Current Analogue coverage if you consider TG4 and a reasonable picture is very poor compared to UK.
Even in mid 1980s RTE1 & RTE2 Irish coverage was far worse than UK BBC coverage. RTE always assumed poorer picture and larger aerials acceptable. Till Woodcock Hill started most of Limerick city got a rubbish signal.0 -
Geographical areas on maps mean little if the actual amount of people in the said area is very little. Coverage, as Watty points out, is based on population or households most of the time and not physical size.Extinction wrote: »Looking at the coverage map there are areas larger than Dublin city that will be without terrestrial signal after DSO, it is unfair to the people in these areas to expect them to have to take the most expensive route of getting satellite installed. Its been pointed out so many times on boards that most people will have just get a receiver and even that a lot will only need a rabbits ears for reception but there are large parts of Donegal, Galway, Kerry, Cork, Tipperary Waterford, Wicklow and more counties which will not get terrestrial signal. At 98% population coverage it still leaves almost 100,000 people without terrestrial signal and the area of Ireland covered is a lot less than 98%.
The 98.5% figure for UK PSB coverage and 98% in NI means that in the UK as a whole, over 900,000 people will be outside official terrestrial coverage and around 36,000 of these in Northern Ireland, with many times more lying outside coverage for the commercial multiplexes including some notable towns. Some of these can be solved with bigger aerial installations, but many would be better to go via satellite as it is less hassle. I know for myself that in the Sperrins for example reception of terrestrial broadcasts from both sides of the border can be very hit and miss - a house an aunt of mine once lived in had OK reception from Clermont Carn but (analogue) signals from Brougher Mountain and Divis were brutal, a nearby pub only overcame this by having a massive Group A high gain on a 50ft pole.
It will be a sore point that in a few places where there is a current adequate analogue service that there will be no equivalent replacement with digital without either aerial realignment or satellite, but that is the case in some countries already.0 -
It will be a sore point that in a few places where there is a current adequate analogue service that there will be no equivalent replacement with digital without either aerial realignment or satellite, but that is the case in some countries already.
The FTA satellite service for the UK is receiveable with cheap satellite gear unlike Saorsat, Saorsat is significantly more expensive and needing more exact installation (not for DIYers)
It would seem fair to have perhaps a one year or so (maybe to next summer) extension of analogue TV in the areas affected.
In the absence of a Commercial DTT operator (was to have been 'Boxer') the reality is that much of the UHF TV spectrum would be sitting unused in this country for the foreseable future after DSO date, there isn't really a pressing need to close all analogue TV in this country on the one date.
This would only need the insertion of a Saorview (or satellite) receiver and a modulator for each channel at the transposers concerned. People may recall many transposers in the same area were temporarily changed to receiving from satellite during the mast changeover works at the parent Mullaghanish transmitter in recent years, so the gear to do this is likely there already.
Self help schemes could do this depending on demand for an analogue extension in their area.
Next year more firm decisions could then be made (such as perhaps upgrading to digital more transposers, the cost of doing so might reduce), and Saorsat receivers will likely have come down in price, and the trade can give Saorsat more attention (if people have to get it). There would also be a lot more expericence by then of Saorsat, and any possible issues (reliability in bad weather etc)
People may recall RTE broadcast RTE Radio 1 on both national MW and LW (the latter was to replace the purpose of the former) as well as FM for nearly 4 years (during 2004-2008) before closing MW in 2008, there was far less justification to do that (and much greater expense, and for most of that time of benefit to very few listeners), than some extension of analogue TV for viewers who will otherwise have to get Saorsat.0 -
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Other than the possibility of sacrificing MHEG capability (unknown how much longer Aertel in its WST form will last), the only receiver component that is not mainstream is a TVRO Ka Band LNB which itself is now available from several suppliers. Pretty much any FTA DVB-S2 receiver will handle Saorsat transmissions otherwise.The FTA satellite service for the UK is receiveable with cheap satellite gear unlike Saorsat, Saorsat is significantly more expensive and needing more exact installation (not for DIYers)0 -
Different scenario as MW could still be running in 20 years time. That was purely an RTE internal financial decision.
There is no reason to keep Analogue beyond 24th October 2012. It involves international agreement with UK and also how the network works.
More of the Population already has DTT than Analogue, esp TG4 and very much TV3.
Saorsat is only an extra cost of about €50 (once off) over a decent "Freesat HD" install, or about €120 more if you want Freesat HD and Saorsat on one multifeed dish.
Yes it needs to be installed a bit more carefully than a smaller than 60cm "junk" bargain basement system, but it's no extra bother at all to any competent installer doing a system properly with a decent rain margin.
The Ka-LNBF is the only "special" part and as I said they would be, they are now widely available. The only aspect I was wrong on (which is a deliberate RTE decision) is the dish size
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66911631&postcount=12
So we have known about this since July 2010. The "special" LNBFs have been a available a few months now at about €65 max. Compared with overall cost of install labour, dish, a standard DVB-S2 HD + MHEG5 receiver (Freesat HD or not) and cable it's not a huge cost. It's a once off too. The complication of combining "Freesat" and non-Freesat on one listing and Diseqc compatibility only arises if the viewer wants all the FTA UK Satellite as well as Saorsat and a 3rd party plugin solves this for the Humax "Freesat+ HD" Foxsat HDR.
There was conflicting information originally from Eutelsat as to if it was 9E or 13E
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66914176&postcount=72
Don't forget when Satellite coverage was announced the Satellite had not actually been launched!
RTE would not even admit that it would be Ka-Sat till after tests had started! The Saorsat on Ka-Sat was only officially announced two months ago on 9th March 2012 http://www.saortv.info/2012/03/13/rtes-low-profile-saorsat-announcement/0 -
In a topical issues debate in the Dáil last Wednesday the Minister said in reply to TD Jim Daly that he has asked RTÉ for an overview report on Saorview coverage issue in the Cork area once analogue transposers, self-help community systems and deflectors are switched off later this year.
The report from RTÉ was submitted to the Minister on May 16th according to a Dáil question down for written answer today*155. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the main
findings of RTÉ’s report into Saorview and Saorstat provision in west Cork which he
received on 16 May 2012; the actions he will take following the publication of the report;
and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Michael McCarthy. [25701/12]0 -
Article in today's Irish Times "Demise of analogue creates a problem for digital 'black spots'" about a Public Accounts Committee meeting with Aidan Dunning, Secretary General of the Department of Communications, last week.
This from that discussion...
Deputy Michael McCarthy: The analog to digital switch over takes place in October. I know it is a Europe wide event, and is not a process we are initiating ourselves. Is that decision based on a directive, based on a decision by the Commission, or is it EU law?
Mr. Aidan Dunning: It is a Commission decision. The spectrum is a very valuable natural resource, not just to Ireland, but to Europe. Using the spectrum for analog purposes is a very poor use of that spectrum. It takes up too much of the spectrum and it does not provide the services. By moving to the digital terrestrial system, DTT, we will use less spectrum and produce a better product. There will be more high definition television and more channels, because it does not take up as much space. Perhaps most importantly, the economic return is very significant, especially for Ireland. Due to the topography and the demographics of the country, we rely a lot on mobile broadband. Releasing spectrum from the analog system and giving it to ComReg to be auctioned to the mobile operators for mobile voice and broadband services, will be of tremendous value because this is of a higher quality spectrum than was there before. We hope it will enable the mobile operators to increase the quality of the broadband services in rural areas. There is an economic return and there is a return on broadcasting as well.
Deputy Michael McCarthy: I understand about 98% of the country will be fine.
Mr. Aidan Dunning: This is on Saorview.
Deputy Michael McCarthy: Yes. Part of the remaining 2% happens to be along the N71 on the south-western seaboard. There is a particular issue as we move further west along the national primary route - the N71 - in areas like Dunmanway, Leap and Ballydehob. What is the Department doing to address that issue? I understand that direct lines are needed for Saorsat, but some householders will have to invest €300 for Saorsat to compensate for this problem. There is an inconvenience and a cost falling back on television viewers in areas through no fault of their own. I put down a parliamentary question on this. It has been raised with the commission and I know there have been discussions between the Department and RTE. What is the Department doing to address that deficit?
Mr. Aidan Dunning: The DTT system will cover 98% of the country in full. The analog system did so as well. There was always 2% of the country that was not covered by analog. As it happens, the 2% in both cases do not completely coincide. RTE has arrived at a solution whereby for the first time in the history of the State, there will be 100% coverage of television. At its own expense, RTE has taken space in the Saorsat satellite. That is the primary mechanism in place to deal with people who will not be able to get the DTT system. That being said, I take the Deputy’s point that there would be an expense involved, in terms of the satellite dish and other aspects of installation, which will probably be higher than for people who just have to get a set-top box for €70 or perhaps get a Saorview television for €120.
Our D-Day this year is 24 October, when analog switches off and the screens go blank for anybody who owns analog televisions. We will remain in close contact with RTE on this particular issue, dealing with a small group of people to see if there are local mechanisms which could be put in place that may be of help in situations where the Saorsat operation may not be appropriate. However, I must emphasise that RTE has taken space on Saorsat at its own expense of €1 million per year. The purpose of doing that was to ensure that these people would not be left behind. That is the primary solution which has been put in place.
Deputy Michael McCarthy: The Department is liaising with RTE about the black spots. D-Day is 24 October, as Mr. Dunning said. When can we hope to get an idea of the solution to the black spots, without pushing the financial burden on the householders?
Mr. Aidan Dunning: I do not want to put a timescale on it. All I will say is that we are very attentive to the issue of coverage. We will be engaging with RTE on the issue and will report back on it. I accept that it is a problem for the people for whom it is a problem. It is not a problem for the vast majority of the population.
Deputy Michael McCarthy: That makes the solution more likely.
Mr. Aidan Dunning: We have to engage with the technical people to see if there is a possibility to resolve it in most instances, but not in all. I do not think RTE would be expected to put something in place for one-off houses. If there are scattered communities of houses together, perhaps something can be done.
Deputy Michael McCarthy: As it is a European issue, is there a requirement on the Department to ensure that all areas receive Saorview?
Mr. Aidan Dunning: No, not that I am aware of. I am not aware of any universal service obligation for television, although there is such an obligation for postal services and for telephones. We should bear in mind that under the analog system, 2% of the country never had coverage, although some of them had their own ways of doing things. I am not aware of any European requirement in this area.
Deputy Michael McCarthy: I would like to finish with a quote from the Department’s own functions and objectives, which are “to promote high quality telecommunications infrastructure, especially broadband, and to promote high quality public service broadcasting available to and availed of by Irish audiences”. I will liaise with Mr. Dunning and the Department in future on this issue, and I thank him for his courtesy in answering the questions that I raised.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/ACC/2012/05/17/00005.asp0 -
The blind leading the blind.0
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They are going to do nothing, so.0
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Join Date:Posts: 19033
Interesting that he gives a figure of €1m for Saorsat, not the €1.5 m given previously.
The questions and the answers appear to display a remarkable level of ignorance.0 -
The report from RTÉ was submitted to the Minister on May 16th according to a Dáil question down for written answer today
Reply to Dáil question155. Deputy Michael McCarthy asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the main findings of RTÉ’s report into Saorview and Saorstat provision in west Cork which he received on 16 May 2012; the actions he will take following the publication of the report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25701/12]
Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): On 25 April as a result of issues raised during a topical debate on SAORVIEW coverage in Cork, I requested from RTÉ an overview report on coverage in Cork and I can confirm that a summary report in this regard has since been received from RTÉNL by my Department.
This summary concludes that in the Cork area there is a substantial increase in TV coverage as a result of the introduction of SAORVIEW and SAORSAT.
In relation to SAORVIEW I have been informed by RTÉNL that the SAORVIEW network in Cork covers 96% of the population. This means that in Cork, 96% of the population can upgrade to SAORVIEW and will receive RTÉ1, RTÉ2, TG4, TV3, 3e, RTÉ1+1, RTÉ News Now, RTÉ jr and 10 RTÉ radio channels. This is significantly higher than the current analogue TV coverage which is: 90% for RTÉ1 and RTÉ2, 80% for TG4 and 63% for TV3.
That said, I can confirm that RTÉNL is continuing to work on developing more detailed information on areas where coverage issues have been identified and my Department will continue to liaise with RTÉNL to ensure that such information is made available at a local level.
The availability of the RTÉ SAORSAT satellite service increases TV coverage to 100% in all areas. SAORSAT broadcasts all the SAORVIEW TV channels except the two TV3 channels – TV3 and 3e. In this regard, it is important to note that TV3 is a commercial broadcaster and, as such, a decision to use SAORSAT will be a commercial decision for TV3.
RTÉ is not required to provide SAORSAT but has chosen to develop this unique and innovative solution to ensure a ‘free to air’ TV service is available to 100% of the country.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/05/23/00142.asp#N20 -
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Clearly the minister does not understand statistics or transmision/broadcasting. Because 96% of the population can receive Saorview does not mean that 96% of people in Cork can receive it, particularly given the terrain there. Saorsat is not 100% available to people all over Ireland as some live in shadows from mountains and buildings. Together, perhaps the coverage is approaching 99%, but will never be 100%.
Unfortunately the terrain that makes terrestial difficult may make Saorsat difficult too.0 -
In relation to SAORVIEW I have been informed by RTÉNL that the SAORVIEW network in Cork covers 96% of the population. This means that in Cork, 96% of the population can upgrade to SAORVIEW and will receive RTÉ1, RTÉ2, TG4, TV3, 3e, RTÉ1+1, RTÉ News Now, RTÉ jr and 10 RTÉ radio channels. This is significantly higher than the current analogue TV coverage which is: 90% for RTÉ1 and RTÉ2, 80% for TG4 and 63% for TV3.
Saorsat is 29 degrees elevation approx and Sky/Freesat about 22 degrees approx. Easier reception and less likely to be blocked. We are not Norway.0 -
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It was depressing reading that Dail exchange, the two of them clearly didn't understand what either of them was on about :rolleyes:
The 98% figure quoted for analogue is optimistic. Several % more didn't get all four channels, or had very poor PQ on most or all of them, and had no remedy other than pay-tv.
Now we have a free solution that gives perfect PQ across 8 channels to 98%, with FTA satellite in-fill for the other 2%, and this guy still isn't happy. I wonder how many of his constituents have Sky already (due to crap analogue) and are not even going to try to get Saorview.
Edit: Also, it was interesting that no mention was made of perhaps the real function of Saorsat, providing backup links... it's not a charity gesture by RTENL as Saorview meets their coverage obligation already.Life ain't always empty.
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This is yet another way of RTENL basically saying that they've got the coverage they need and they're not going launching any new sites so it's pointless anyone requesting more reports because it's clear nothing is going to come of them.
What should be done now is a scheme should be launched right now where self help schemes can apply for licences and be allowed to broadcast Saorview before ASO. There is little point in launching a Self Help scheme in 2013 if people are going to have no TV in the (likely lengthy) time it takes for such a scheme to be established. Many self help schemes in the UK have been upgraded and there are groups in Ireland crying out to get a licensing scheme to no avail. If they were able to allocate 4 channels for 23/24 sites across Cork for deflectors, they surely have no problem allocating 2 channels in the coastal towns where there will be 0 UHF channels in use after DSO. I was in Rosscarbery last week and there was only 3 channels on which any TV reception could be got on an outdoor antenna mounted on roof (53, 57, 63, all going after ASO), these are cleared for miles (50W signals don't travel far through mountains either), and no reason why they can't be used after ASO.
The majority of relays in the UK were upgraded, mostly apart from those which were single channel relays for regional news, areas of multipath issues and relays which were replaced by new ones (like Cnoc an Oir replacing Listowel etc). RTENL are upgrading about 1/3 of their sites and if they can't be arsed upgrading the rest, they should let the self help guys do it0 -
It makes sense to wait until ASO when all currently known Saorview sites will be active and on full power (and all possibly interfering UK signals will be on full power) before deciding what to do with self-help projects.
Remember it took decades to achieve half-decent analogue coverage in both Ireland and the UK.
As the Saorsat option is there, if people want to do self-help BAI should oblige, but RTENL won't fund it.Life ain't always empty.
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Certainly a scheme to licence self-help schemes should be in place.
Also, RTE NL should be tasked (obliged) to come up with a prefered design, such that the cost for such schemes would be minimised. I am thinking about aerial design, list of equipment, possible suppliers, power requirements, etc.
This approach might encourage groups to get together and actually do this quickly, without getting bogged down with the technical side.0 -
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/locals-angry-at-costs-of-digital-tv-roll-out-197040.html
Locals angry at costs of digital TV roll-out
By Louise Roseingrave
Tuesday, June 12, 2012
The problem of patchy television reception across West Cork was debated at a public meeting last night.
The roll-out of RTÉ’s Saorview digital television service this autumn will leave thousands of residents in broadcast blackspots.
Residents face charges of up to €350 to install satellite dishes to receive RTÉ in their homes via Saorsat. An additional cost of €250 per room applies. But viewers will not receive TV3 or TG4 — channels that have never been available to residents of blackspot areas.
Timoleague, Rosscarbery, Reenascreena, Leap, Union Hall and Ballydehob are among the worst affected regions.
Locals believe the cost of installation is unfair while a large number of satellite dishes will be an eyesore, according to Pat O’Callaghan, Leap Community Council spokesman.
"Many of our residents are elderly, the additional cost of installing the satellite is prohibitive and unfair. The satellite dishes required to receive the signal measure 1m in height. People don’t want these big fandangles attached to their homes, they will be an eyesore and may even breach planning regulations," he said.
Residents have the option to avail of Sky packages that deliver RTE and TV3 broadcasts at a cost of €30 per month. The cost incurred to potential viewers is discriminatory, according to local TD Jim Daly (FG).
A review of the situation by RTÉ is under way and will be completed in July.
"I don’t see why people should have to pay for a British company to provide signals for our national stations," he said.
A former teacher in Leap, Mr Daly recalled asking students to write an essay on the advent of TV3.
The request was met with confusion. "It was a case of TV3 how are you? RTÉ had only just arrived in the village," he said.
A mast erected at Myross to serve the locality attracted objections from as far away as Dublin and Mayo. Its decommissioning is a waste of public resources, Mr O’Callaghan claimed.
"This is just another example of an EU directive that is totally out of touch with rural communities."
Terrestrial signals from Saorview need a line of sight and cannot transmit through mountainous areas and valleys. Regions affected make up 2% of the population and include parts of West Cork, Kerry and Connemara. Up to 15,000 homes nationwide have signed up to Saorview.0 -
Quality misinformation at its best!
A set top box should be less than €100An additional cost of €250 per room applies.
TG4 is on Saorview.But viewers will not receive TV3 or TG4 — channels that have never been available to residents of blackspot areas.
It's €25 a month for a basic Sky subscription.Residents have the option to avail of Sky packages that deliver RTE and TV3 broadcasts at a cost of €30 per month.
They don't, they can get Saorsat."I don’t see why people should have to pay for a British company to provide signals for our national stations," he said.
The closing of transmitters is a RTENL decision, not an EU decision."This is just another example of an EU directive that is totally out of touch with rural communities."
More people in rural Ireland can get digital than could get analogue.
There is no 'signing up' to Saorview, there is no subscription.Up to 15,000 homes nationwide have signed up to Saorview.0 -
Quality misinformation at its best!
A set top box should be less than €100
That 250 Euro quote is for a Saorsat receiver not Saorview in another room, and also the cost of cabling setup etc (if people cannot do it themselves) is going to be a lot more then 100 EuroThey don't, they can get Saorsat.
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The only option is Sky if they want to see TV3 (and 3e). It appears they are not going on Saorsat.
TG4 jumped on Saorsat late in the day, so the journalist might have been repeating what was accurate a few weeks ago about TG4
The mast there (Leap) is also used for mobile phone operators so I cannot see RTENL decommissioning the mast!
I do not see what the big deal would be with extending analogue for maybe a year or so in places like this is??
The UHF channels of this relay are not in the Digital Dividend spectrum etc
It would give breathing space on the Saorsat issue.0 -
More than €100 but €250 for connecting a second TVs as quoted in the article?That quote is for a Saorsat receiver not Saorview in another room, and also the cost of cabling setup etc (if people cannot do it themselves) is going to be a lot more then 100 Euro
It makes it sound as if that is a set price.
For many people it will be a quick job with no drilling needed as they will be replacing or reusing existing cabling.
You can get a Saorsat box for €80 http://www.tvtrade.ie/xoro-hd-satellite-receiver.html
Local relays are retransmitting the signal from a main transmitter.I do not see what the big deal would be with extending analogue for maybe a year or so in places like this is??
Once the main transmitters shut down analogue, there is nothing to retransmit.0 -
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I think these are the same locals who are angry about the septic tank inspection charge, the household charge, the prospect of water charges, the banning of turf cutting in certain bogs, the cutting of third-level grants to farmers, etc. etc. etc.
The costs are just indicative - of a poorly researched article.0 -
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http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/locals-angry-at-costs-of-digital-tv-roll-out-197040.html
Locals angry at costs of digital TV roll-out
By Louise Roseingrave.
I contacted the journalist regarding the mistakes in the article and she has thanked me. I referred her to this thread.0
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