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26-03-2012, 17:27   #31
lb1981
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Lots of valid points. The modern trialing springer is a different animal then in the past. The modern spaniel is smaller and faster and the trials are set on ground that is laced with game. The modern trialer will prefer a spaniel with less drive(due to the amount of game on the trial site) and a spaniel that is of a soft temperant that can be trained like a robot.
the spaniels that won in the 70's and 80's were dogs that would hunt ground all day even if they came across very little game as they had very high drive. These dogs would not do well in a modern field trial and vice versa.

In ireland there are pockets of spaniels that are still big boned and strong, in recent years these dogs are been bought by Uk breeders to introduce size back into the breed.

Cockers are still relatively untouched in there breeding lineage as they have only recently become popular in trialing circles. There is talk that openshaw is now concentrating on trialing cockers more as he knows the Ess gene pool has been damaged beyond repair.
I have a cocker from Openshaws Chyknell goldstar , unbelevable energy ,she will go go 2 days in a row non stop ,she cost me big as a pup but i am more than happy with her and il make that money back when i breed her but that is not important .She has 50 ftch in a 5 gen pedigree, now she took a lot of work to channel that energy but it has come up trumps for me.My springer pup (1 year) is coming on brilliant his sire is Blaencowny Archie of lake county and the bitch is a wood cock dog with good drive and that mix has threw a big strong dog pup for me, really obedient and clever and full of muscle so with that mix i didnt have to calm him down he just takes to training and hunting naturally.
So there is an example of 2 dogs from two different back grounds that can work together with some owner effort put in.
It is a pain in the hole when you look through donedeal and every set of pups sire is hattonswood broc or skronedale romulas, the interbreeding in a few years will be a joke in irish spaniels.
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26-03-2012, 22:32   #32
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Hi,
I have been looking at this for long enough and feel I have to post to back up what other guys for what they have been saying. There are different types of dogs for different circumstances (horses for courses). The The type of dogs used in trialing today have been purpose bred to be small fast stylish and easy to train, they are used to ground with plenty game. These dogs would not last the day hunting where i am as it is very rough ground where game can be sparse for long parts of the day and cover is heavy where the game is. These are dogs that are proper capable of hunting woodcock all day long. I have two bitches with Monalue G parents these are proper dogs for Irish terrain and game. I hope to breed one of these this year but have spent alot of time trying to find a similar dog with Monalue lines im not pushed if it has FTCH before its name as long as it has good drive and is not afraid of cover. if you just want a dog for hunting get a dog that you know the parents are good hunting dogs and have a reasonable pedigree .
If you are interested in trialing then breeding is vital to get a small stylish spaniel.
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27-03-2012, 10:06   #33
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Well lads thanks for all the replys. i have bought a pup from Working stock with Monalue Lines. I seen the parents and the owner showed me the Sire hunting HEAVY cover and he was like a bulldozer.Also took me to a pond and showed me him retreiving. he had excellent control of the dog. Nice stocky well built dogs the two of them. this is the kind of dog i need for my hunting as its like what Maxus said, heavy cover not much game but dog will have to hunt so hopefully from the breeding he will turn out good. Thanks all. spoke to Norman Blakney, a very nice man and gave me a least 20mins on the phone talking about dogs.

Collecting on saturday, will post up a pic next week
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27-03-2012, 14:57   #34
kermitpwee
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Hi,
The The type of dogs used in trialing today have been purpose bred to be small fast stylish and easy to train, they are used to ground with plenty game. These dogs would not last the day hunting where i am as it is very rough ground if you just want a dog for hunting get a dog that you know the parents are good hunting dogs and have a reasonable pedigree .
If you are interested in trialing then breeding is vital to get a small stylish spaniel.
Agree totally, it is annoying that trialing has gone the way it has, there was a time when trialing was the showroom for hunting spaniels and pedigree spaniels actually meant something. Now trialing is a seperate sport from hunting, sad to see imo.
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27-03-2012, 15:04   #35
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I have a cocker from Openshaws Chyknell goldstar , unbelevable energy ,she will go go 2 days in a row non stop ,she cost me big as a pup but i am more than happy with her and il make that money back when i breed her but that is not important .She has 50 ftch in a 5 gen pedigree, now she took a lot of work to channel that energy but it has come up trumps for me.My springer pup (1 year) is coming on brilliant his sire is Blaencowny Archie of lake county and the bitch is a wood cock dog with good drive and that mix has threw a big strong dog pup for me, really obedient and clever and full of muscle so with that mix i didnt have to calm him down he just takes to training and hunting naturally.
So there is an example of 2 dogs from two different back grounds that can work together with some owner effort put in.
It is a pain in the hole when you look through donedeal and every set of pups sire is hattonswood broc or skronedale romulas, the interbreeding in a few years will be a joke in irish spaniels.
Agree with most of what you say but the cocker example is not a good one as there lineage has not been destroyed in the pursuit of trials. Your pup has become big boned as the bitch was a big woodcock dog? she must be as most traits in dogs come from the bitch. In trialing there are more dog ftch than bitches as you can make a fortune of the stude money to every tom, dick and harry that has a bitch looking for a service. A Ftch bitch could help save the breed with selective breeding taken if she was of a good size but very little money can be made form her. There are exceptions to every rule but thats the main jist imo.
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27-03-2012, 17:57   #36
lb1981
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Hi,
I have been looking at this for long enough and feel I have to post to back up what other guys for what they have been saying. There are different types of dogs for different circumstances (horses for courses). The The type of dogs used in trialing today have been purpose bred to be small fast stylish and easy to train, they are used to ground with plenty game. These dogs would not last the day hunting where i am as it is very rough ground where game can be sparse for long parts of the day and cover is heavy where the game is. These are dogs that are proper capable of hunting woodcock all day long. I have two bitches with Monalue G parents these are proper dogs for Irish terrain and game. I hope to breed one of these this year but have spent alot of time trying to find a similar dog with Monalue lines im not pushed if it has FTCH before its name as long as it has good drive and is not afraid of cover. if you just want a dog for hunting get a dog that you know the parents are good hunting dogs and have a reasonable pedigree .
If you are interested in trialing then breeding is vital to get a small stylish spaniel.
Here is my fellas pedigree if you want a service down the line
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27-03-2012, 18:12   #37
lb1981
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Originally Posted by lb1981 View Post
I have a cocker from Openshaws Chyknell goldstar , unbelevable energy ,she will go go 2 days in a row non stop ,she cost me big as a pup but i am more than happy with her and il make that money back when i breed her but that is not important .She has 50 ftch in a 5 gen pedigree, now she took a lot of work to channel that energy but it has come up trumps for me.My springer pup (1 year) is coming on brilliant his sire is Blaencowny Archie of lake county and the bitch is a wood cock dog with good drive and that mix has threw a big strong dog pup for me, really obedient and clever and full of muscle so with that mix i didnt have to calm him down he just takes to training and hunting naturally.
So there is an example of 2 dogs from two different back grounds that can work together with some owner effort put in.
It is a pain in the hole when you look through donedeal and every set of pups sire is hattonswood broc or skronedale romulas, the interbreeding in a few years will be a joke in irish spaniels.
Agree with most of what you say but the cocker example is not a good one as there lineage has not been destroyed in the pursuit of trials. Your pup has become big boned as the bitch was a big woodcock dog? she must be as most traits in dogs come from the bitch. In trialing there are more dog ftch than bitches as you can make a fortune of the stude money to every tom, dick and harry that has a bitch looking for a service. A Ftch bitch could help save the breed with selective breeding taken if she was of a good size but very little money can be made form her. There are exceptions to every rule but thats the main jist imo.
I was just using the cocker as she was breed for trailing,so it took time to get her in rough shooting mode,the springer both parents are big as the sire is from monalue lines,I was just saying by mixing the sire with the woodcock birch it threw a set of pups that could hunt heavy cover but have good trailing lines
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28-03-2012, 14:37   #38
TriggerPL
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I was just using the cocker as she was breed for trailing,so it took time to get her in rough shooting mode,the springer both parents are big as the sire is from monalue lines,I was just saying by mixing the sire with the woodcock birch it threw a set of pups that could hunt heavy cover but have good trailing lines
Cockers lines have not being damaged as much because their already small and fast .
when you see springers and there as small as cockers does that tell ya there something wrong.

yes your right mixing trailing blood with strong working bitches isnt a bad thing , it when you line breed trailing dogs with trailing bitches , that is where the problem is . or joe soap mixing his family bitch that he bought for a hundred euro with a ftch and expecting pups worth 400 euro a pop advertised as good gun dogs pups.

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28-03-2012, 14:46   #39
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Here is my fellas pedigree if you want a service down the line

Picture of the dog ?
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28-03-2012, 20:58   #40
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nice solid looking dog stocky , im a big fan of heavy marks of liver over white.

i set up a post a few pages back to try and get a spaniel data base going post him up on it so lads can see whats out there for a service .
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04-04-2012, 19:00   #41
Tk.ie
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Well lads thanks for all the replys. i have bought a pup from Working stock with Monalue Lines. I seen the parents and the owner showed me the Sire hunting HEAVY cover and he was like a bulldozer.Also took me to a pond and showed me him retreiving. he had excellent control of the dog. Nice stocky well built dogs the two of them. this is the kind of dog i need for my hunting as its like what Maxus said, heavy cover not much game but dog will have to hunt so hopefully from the breeding he will turn out good. Thanks all. spoke to Norman Blakney, a very nice man and gave me a least 20mins on the phone talking about dogs.

Collecting on saturday, will post up a pic next week
Hi
Best of luck with the new pup - I've been looking for a ESS for a few weeks and done deal is full of crap at the mo. Could you tell me where you got your pup from as want to get a heavy cover dog for the golden vale in south Leitrim
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04-04-2012, 23:40   #42
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Originally Posted by fiestaman View Post
Well lads thanks for all the replys. i have bought a pup from Working stock with Monalue Lines. I seen the parents and the owner showed me the Sire hunting HEAVY cover and he was like a bulldozer.Also took me to a pond and showed me him retreiving. he had excellent control of the dog. Nice stocky well built dogs the two of them. this is the kind of dog i need for my hunting as its like what Maxus said, heavy cover not much game but dog will have to hunt so hopefully from the breeding he will turn out good. Thanks all. spoke to Norman Blakney, a very nice man and gave me a least 20mins on the phone talking about dogs.

Collecting on saturday, will post up a pic next week
Hi
Best of luck with the new pup - I've been looking for a ESS for a few weeks and done deal is full of crap at the mo. Could you tell me where you got your pup from as want to get a heavy cover dog for the golden vale in south Leitrim
Pm sent.....
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04-04-2012, 23:50   #43
TriggerPL
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hey is it this saturday your collecting the pup .?
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05-04-2012, 11:07   #44
fiestaman
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hey is it this saturday your collecting the pup .?
No last saturday, have him at home since. He sleeps in the shed at night and during the day, 9-4. Girlfriend lets him out at 1 when shes on lunch. I let him in around d house then in evening,i think im doing wrong by doing this as hes getting to like the house. Id hate to put him back in shed after been out for an hour as hes in there most of the day. Run should b finished sunday,then can put him in there. Still screeching abit in morning when he wakes. Hope he takes to the run ok coz have neighbors.
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05-04-2012, 12:16   #45
TriggerPL
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No last saturday, have him at home since. He sleeps in the shed at night and during the day, 9-4. Girlfriend lets him out at 1 when shes on lunch. I let him in around d house then in evening,i think im doing wrong by doing this as hes getting to like the house. Id hate to put him back in shed after been out for an hour as hes in there most of the day. Run should b finished sunday,then can put him in there. Still screeching abit in morning when he wakes. Hope he takes to the run ok coz have neighbors.
nothing wrong with what ya are doing pup need loads of social interaction , and it will stand to you when your hunting him . the run will be different cause he in the fresh air and see all that going on , if the barking starts knock it on the head straight away . give him a shake and shout NO! he wont be long getting the message .

but dont go letting him out when he's barking or he will soon realise that barking get him what he wants .

Any pic yet ?
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