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26-02-2012, 20:18   #16
dorts
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Just to let people know,Buncrana town in Inishowen are setting up an aire type facility this season on a pilot scheme.Good to see a forward looking council.I will keep boards informed as I get more information.
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Originally Posted by niloc1951 View Post
I came across this very interesting information about how local authorities have been successfullchallenged in France, see HERE

For those of you without a translating browser here is the English. It is a bit of a read but it shows clearly that the actions taken by French local authorities, similar to the taken by local government here, to restrict the use and parking of motorhomes has been deemed illegal by the courts and central government. Compensation has even had to be paid to the plaintiff by the local authority in some of the cases.
I know this isn't France but we are all in the EU, and the discrimination argument does seem to be a very effective one.

NEWS: THE TOWN OF ARCACHON HAS CONDEMNED THE REPEAL DISCRIMINATORY PROVISIONS AGAINST CAMPERS STOPPED APPEARING IN ITS MUNICIPAL
The Administrative Court of Bordeaux has sentenced the town of Arcachon to repeal section 33 of the by-law of 14 September 2006, following the maintenance thereof by the mayor's decision of 18 December 2008.
The Liaison Committee of camping car maintained the record before the Court in connection with the refusal of the village and has been successful July 5, 2011.
The measures taken by the Mayor were clearly discriminatory and disproportionate, the goal being to impede the free movement and to prohibit the parking of campers throughout the municipality (with the exception of two sites on which addition, the parking permit was limited to 24 hours).
" It is not apparent from the evidence that the disadvantages of the parking of motorhomes had a serious nature telpour security, safety and protection of sites that were likely to legally justify the prohibition of parking and enacted in space and time (...) restrictions on the freedom to park presented a character of generality excessive relative to the ends sought, having regard to the illegality of those provisions, the Mayor Arcachon was required to grant the application for revocation ... "

The municipality, which must repeal this section within 15 days after the judgment, also ordered to pay 1,200 euros to CLC under Article L.761-1 of the Code of Administrative Justice.
THE SKILLS OF THE MAYOR
Responsible for good order, safety, security and public safety in the territory of the municipality, the Mayor has police powers, particularly with regard to parking, including the strict conditions of legality are defined by case law of the Council State. The mayor may compromise the movement and parking of certain vehicles involving the public tranquility, air quality, protection of animal or plant species or protected areas, putting no value landscapes or site Pursuant to Article L.2213-4 of the Code of local authorities. However, any ban should be based on local circumstances and explicitly motivated proven to not be tainted by discrimination and illegality.
THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS TO LIMIT PARKING IN THE MUNICIPAL
Any such measures must be properly justified given the traffic requirements and cover all vehicles of the same size, mass and weight. Thus a ban should be reserved for campers only. Recent case law has often proved insufficient motivation orders restricting the parking of motor homes under the pretext that they compromised the safety or public safety. The Administrative Tribunal of Montpellier has also repealed its decision in 2007 on the grounds that the municipality "does not produce any evidence proving the existence and extent of pollution in the area concerned or, a fortiori, their relationship parking of motor homes. "
ANY BLANKET BAN IS ILLEGAL
Recent case law has significantly advanced the treatment of the proportionality of the measure. Indeed any prohibition must be established in an acceptable proportionality and not excessive in relation to the disorder that we consider. The Administrative Court of Appeal of Bordeaux, for example, confirmed the cancellation of an order prohibiting parking on any one municipality in 2008 on the grounds that "it appears that the disadvantages that may cause the parking of motor homes have presented a serious nature as to security, safety and protection of sites they have been such as to justify the prohibition of parking legally and enacted. "
PROHIBIT THE PARKING OF MOTOR HOMES AT NIGHT IS ILLEGAL
The inter-ministerial circular published October 19, 2004 removes any distinction between day and night parking of motor homes, occupied or not. Indeed, the risks are no different day and night, and any specific prohibition of night is illegal. Case law has since condemned the discriminatory ordinances, the Administrative Court of Pau has indeed stated in 2008 that it was "indeed a general and absolute prohibition for motorhomes to park with overnight occupants on the whole community. "
HOW TO WRITE BYLAWS?
A municipal ordinance prohibiting parking a vehicle category must specify the rights and elements of fact justifying the decision (Article L. 2213-2 of the General Local Authorities Code). The measure must be based on need (significant disruption due to traffic or parking) to be seriously motivated, they must be proportionate to the disorder that it intends to prevent or to which it wishes to terminate, then it must be limited in space (specific geographic area) and time (eg seasonality).
LIMITING ACCESS TO PARKING MOTORHOMES BY PITCH BARS IS ILLEGAL
The proliferation of bars in height at the entrance of the parking is extremely damaging to the practice of the camper. If they are not always the main target, the camping car are affected primarily by the binding and often illegal devices that do not give a good image host. The Highway Code specifies that the pitch bars are pre-signaling of an obstacle and must be strictly limited to this use (low trees, bridges, parking garages entries ... inaccessible to campers). The implementation of pitch bars is illegal even for the materialization of a parking ban has been a municipal ordinance
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26-02-2012, 20:28   #17
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Enquiries made to the Senior Executive Officer of Roscommon County Council indicate that the section in bye-law banning the overnight parking of motorhomes was enacted as a direct result of lobbying by caravan park owning interests.
This is nothing new. I once stopped in Fanore Co Clare. Seeing all the no overnight parking signs I was planning where to go for the night. Some surfers ask me if I was staying & told me to ignore the signs as there were put up by the local campsite owner .

Later in the evening some lads suggested that I move the van further into the dunes & away from the signs. In the morning the signs were gone - someone had cut through the poles. I spent a brilliant week there & met some really nice people - lot of campers from Galway.

I also know of a another campsite owner who has been known to bang on the side of vans parked by the beach & telling them to move on.
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27-02-2012, 09:05   #18
WildWater
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Just to let people know,Buncrana town in Inishowen are setting up an aire type facility this season on a pilot scheme.Good to see a forward looking council.I will keep boards informed as I get more information.
Thanks for that Dorts. We are planning on staying at home this summer. A few days in Donegal will hopefully be on the cards and I'd certainly like to go support this venture if we are in that neck of the woods.

Appreciate it if you can keep us up to date.
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27-02-2012, 10:19   #19
bo.jangles
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Is there any one on here that could write a strong letter we could copy or counter sign and send to the TDs for Roscommon and to the Minister for tourism high lighting some of the points raised. I would love to do something but am useless at putting in on paper.
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27-02-2012, 12:46   #20
niloc1951
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Is there any one on here that could write a strong letter we could copy or counter sign and send to the TDs for Roscommon and to the Minister for tourism high lighting some of the points raised. I would love to do something but am useless at putting in on paper.
What we really need here is the formation of an organisation similar to the CLC in France.
This organisation includes manufacturers, retailers, rental companies, users. I know we don't have manufacturers here but we have the rest.

The mission of the CLC is to defend the interests associated with the use of campers in all its aspects and especially the reception of such vehicles, parking them, their environment, the rights and obligations of users, the administrative and technical regulations and taxation.

The CLC also are involved in actions to promote development and understanding at national, regional and local representation by governments, government agencies and officials of the requirements of motorhomes.

It is the CLC who are spearheading the legal actions against local authorities in France who might unjustifiably put restrictions on the movement and parking of motorhomes
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27-02-2012, 13:25   #21
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Is there any one on here that could write a strong letter we could copy or counter sign and send to the TDs for Roscommon and to the Minister for tourism high lighting some of the points raised. I would love to do something but am useless at putting in on paper.
At a MH rally at a Roscommon racecourse about 3-4 yrs ago, Michael Finneran TD and then minister of state welcomed us all down and said what a great boost we brought to the local economy. Things must have changed, He's not a TD anymore (I think he's a racecourse manager) and they dont want motorhomes There's certainly a County Council team that should be lobbied and make them explain their reasons for their actions.
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27-02-2012, 19:02   #22
Micky Dolenz
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I wonder how strictly it would be policed. I suspect it would not be.

Have yet to get any hassle for parking overnight anywhere, signs or not.
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01-03-2012, 10:44   #23
WildWater
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What we really need here is the formation of an organisation similar to the CLC in France.
This organisation includes manufacturers, retailers, rental companies, users. I know we don't have manufacturers here but we have the rest.

The mission of the CLC is to defend the interests associated with the use of campers in all its aspects and especially the reception of such vehicles, parking them, their environment, the rights and obligations of users, the administrative and technical regulations and taxation.

The CLC also are involved in actions to promote development and understanding at national, regional and local representation by governments, government agencies and officials of the requirements of motorhomes.

It is the CLC who are spearheading the legal actions against local authorities in France who might unjustifiably put restrictions on the movement and parking of motorhomes
It would be great to have such an organisation here and I would certainly join and give time to it. I am not really interested in joining a club to go on rallies but I would join a club that had an active campaign for the provisions of Aires in Ireland. Unfortunately, I cannot find one. Anyone know of a club that is active in this space?

Outside of that how feasible is it to establish a new lobby group?
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01-03-2012, 12:11   #24
bo.jangles
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Outside of that how feasible is it to establish a new lobby group?

I do not know but if think of trying to set one up count me in
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20-03-2012, 21:02   #25
jakejudy123
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camper vans not welcome in Roscommon

Just to let you know there has been a lot of publicity about this topic on local radio Shannonside in the last few days. I sent them an email and will be talking on the show tomorrow in defence of motorhomes. It would be great if some of you could send emails to joe@shannonside.ie between 9am and 12 noon in support of campervans.
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20-03-2012, 22:27   #26
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[QUOTE=WildWater;77364979]It would be great to have such an organisation here and I would certainly join and give time to it. I am not really interested in joining a club to go on rallies but I would join a club that had an active campaign for the provisions of Aires in Ireland. Unfortunately, I cannot find one. Anyone know of a club that is active in this space?

The only group or club that I know of that was succesful in locating an airs was, the Munster Motorhome Club, they lobbied local Co.Co. officials for an aires at Askeaton, Co. Limerick. Perhaps they need new blood to continue their fight for aires in the Munster region.
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20-03-2012, 23:44   #27
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http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/n...al-car-parks-/
Now the campsite owner is suggesting we dump into the Shannon,
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21-03-2012, 11:22   #28
niloc1951
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http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/n...al-car-parks-/
Now the campsite owner is suggesting we dump into the Shannon,
If you read the article above it was not the camp site owner who made the ridicules suggestion but his buddy Councillor Tony Ward http://www.roscommoncoco.ie/en/Servi...Tony_Ward.html
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21-03-2012, 13:50   #29
jakejudy123
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Camper vans not welcome in Roscommon

I was supposed to be on Shannonside Radio fm104.1 today to discuss above but it was postponed until tomorrow morning at 9.30 ish. In an article in Westmeath paper the councillor in question said "the big concern that I had was in relation to the sewage and refuse (from the campervans) where is that going. Is it going into the River Shannon". !!!!
he really knows nothing about campervan people does he. I really think everyone involved in the camper van community should contact Roscommon County Council just email them at customerservice@roscommoncoco.ie and ask for it to be passed on to the relevant councillors meetings.

Letters can also be sent to local paper roscommon herald as follows:
editor@roscommonherald.com.

It really doesnt affect me personally as I am from Roscommon and do not holiday here but I am disgusted at the attitude towards us campervan owners who are a band of very responsible people on the whole.
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21-03-2012, 14:44   #30
bo.jangles
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sent e-mail to minister of tourism office also copys to Roscommon c.c and to Roscommon TDs Luke Flanagan TD, Denis Naughten TD , Frank Feighan TD.
Ministers office said
matter has been passed on to relevant dept.
Denis Naughten TD
Thank you for your e-mail which I have referred to the County Manager requesting that he make direct contact with you regarding this matter
Regards.
Nothing from others.
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