Swimming for Tri

I wouldn't really see kicking off the wall as cheating as long as you are doing the distances. Having to start from a standing start every lap would be a nightmare and overkill as you wouldn't be stopping if can be helped in the race

I suppose the tumble turns stop the sneaky break you might have in the longer sets which isn't great if you are doing long distance. But if you are trying to keep to a time I don't see it as much of a problem. I can do them but I get the breathing wrong going in and coming out of them so I am left gasping for air after turning so I don't go near them

I can breathe bilaterally but very rarely do - i make conscious efforts in warm up and warm down to do it but when the sets are difficult I know myself i am faster every 2

Longer sets are good for endurance, I enjoy a long OW swim during the summer where I just swim for a decent period of time. The faster sets increase your cruising speed over time

Training in OW - I am always surprised that peoples pool times are far better than their open water times. I find it easier to swim with the wetsuit on as it helps the body position. I think its important to get out at least once a week from May on

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Shouldn't you do 1.5km straight swims with the wetsuit on, not tumble turn and not kick off the wall to keep it relevant?!

Ive done these - a set of 6*1500 off 20 long course at UF one sunny morning a long time ago. Since the rest of the squad were racing Id to report back my times and average 100 splits for all 6. Everyone drifts but focusing on the clock and (as Tunney says) form at a particular level of effort is key. A lot of people are still getting used to swimming with the clock so the longer the intervals, the less likely they'll be to hold pace. 15*100's holding 1.25 off 1.35 - will arguably ensure focus and quality from a session.

Is it not like this with biking and running as well ? start the sport of triathlon - happy to get about - just do long spins on the bike and long runs ? want to push things on @ pace ... suddenly intervals ... percentages ... lions, tigers, bears .. oh my !

Seriously though, worth a discussion IMO...

Evil .. IMO

Is kicking off the wall cheating?
Is there any point in learning to tumble turn?

Nope and Yep, turns are NOT for resting. In the right hands tumble turns, kicking off the wall are a weapon. They're part of the discipline of pool swimming, they help maintain lane order and when presented with people idling about on the bank fully dressed can break the monotony of a long set by creating a wave that will soak their pants. Never fails to crack me up.

Are longer reps like 300s and 400s not better suited for Tri?

Yep, again the bit about focus and holding a pace. But only 400's .. Im not a big fan of 'funny' distances like 150's, 300's etc .. but its probably just me. I'd honestly love to give out a set of 6*400's off 6.30 for a particular group of swimmers but at the moment I feel they get more from something like 6*200's + 3 sets of 4 * 100's or similar ... focus, more feedback from the coach ... which many don't have apart from 1 hour a week.

If Elite swimmers/triathletes are breathing every 2, why is it necessary to learn to bilateral breathe?

learning to breath bilaterally and employing in when training helps 'balance' the stroke as much as possible. People will favour one side or another and will over-extend the opposing arm (to the side they breath to) arguably too much which puts strain on the smaller muscles in the front of the shoulder and is - recently - considered less efficient than maintaining a more shallow pull. Some squads now use 'centre' snorkels to allow people to swim sets 'feeling' without breathing which helps identify any strangeness.

Elite swimmers / triathletes when racing may swim differently when racing and training ... which Im guessing where Tunney's question came from.

Ive done these - a set of 6*1500 off 20 long course at UF one sunny morning a long time ago.

I need to lie down after reading that :eek:

Is there a difference between doing a long straight swim e.g. 2K or 20*100, 10*200 etc?

why is the feeling here, is there any advantage in doing the straight swim, once, twice a month?

thanks

thanks Pgibbo

pgibbo wrote: »

So one question I have is - what level does a swimmer need to be at before tackling long distance straight swims? Is being able to swim 1:45 or faster for 2k straight comfortably that value or something else? I'm assuming that once you reach a certain level your form won't suffer near as much as say a 2:00+ per 100 swimmer.

I'm probably not understanding the question here chief but ... imho

a) swim, swim regularly - for enjoyment, for fitness, for an escape from the real world. Typically the more time a person spends in water the more relaxed they are.

b) If a person is relaxed and comfortable in the water they're much more likely to take up instruction from a coach about one or two things related to their stroke. They're more aware in the water.

c) Most kids when being taught to swim don't do intervals - they will do alot of drills - kick, single arm etc, kicking on the back ... the elements of the various strokes and as they advance along the learning curve they may do things like diving etc. Its only if they have an interest in competitive swimming will they move to sets / intervals / clock work.

So ... for alot of triathletes starting out ... that want to get around a 750 or 1500 swim ... my advice would be to swim, get instruction from a single source where possible regarding your stroke - take on fixing or improving one or two things at a time as you go. The more you swim, the confidence grows ... it is possible to do 750/1500/1900/3800 without stopping, with bilateral breathing with the prettiest stroke in the pool

To improve on that ... sets focus swimmers to train at a target pace that is easier to adhere to when utilising the clock than via feel. There probably arent that many that know what 1.30 pace 'feels' like ... over and over ... so doing sets on a target pace -5 seconds for sets of 100's, 200's, 400's or 800's can help. Help with confidence, swim endurance and enable coaches to correctly adjust sets and intervals to enable swimmers that are trying to improve to get their bodies used to rep times and the desired pace.

To try to answer the question "So one question I have is - what level does a swimmer need to be at before tackling long distance straight swims? Is being able to swim 1:45 or faster for 2k straight comfortably that value or something else?"

People starting out should do their best to keep good form and try and swim for Xk straight for their confidence. Anyone capable of doing 4*100 f/s on an interval time of 2min or less probably has a good enough stroke to manage Xk straight but imho will get more value from doing sets that will help improve their swim endurance / fitness over shorther / faster intervals.

Clear as mud ? as always, just another opinion on D'internet