Libya. Ghost-town of Tawergha. Apartheid and Executions of Blacks.

lagente · 21-10-2011 2:08pm #1

Tawergha , aka blackiestown (population 24,200 in 2006) , in North Libya, has undergone Apartheid, and Murder.
ALL blacks are now kicked out of their town by the rebels, their lives torn apart.
They're in bombed up CAMPS the military used now.
compensation for them? NAH, Why? They're blacks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E-CJguDnZ4

It seems that enough people in Libya, unlike us, actually realize that while some talk about going to a war crimes court, for dealing with your enemies, such as mercenerie blacks, that theres really little point in all that decent
civilised sh1t, . . . . .WHEN YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN ONE!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02a_1301531604 (tough to watch public violent beheading execution video, you've been warned)
yeah theyre blacks being murdered in front of a cheering crowd with their . . . .hip expencive cameraphones which give the crowd an air of sophistication and a modern day approach to life, wouldn't you agree?

Jonny7 · 21-10-2011 3:25pm

lagente wrote: »

Tawergha , aka blackiestown (population 24,200 in 2006) , in North Libya, has undergone Apartheid, and Murder.
ALL blacks are now kicked out of their town, their lives torn apart.
They're in bombed up CAMPS the military used now.
compensation for them? NAH, Why? They're blacks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E-CJguDnZ4

It seems that enough people in Libya, unlike us, actually realize that while some talk about going to a war crimes court, for dealing with your enemies, such as mercenerie blacks, that theres really little point in all that decent
civilised sh1t, . . . . .WHEN YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN ONE!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02a_1301531604 (tough to watch public violent beheading execution video, you've been warned)
yeah theyre blacks being murdered in front of a cheering crowd with their . . . .hip expencive cameraphones which give the crowd an air of sophistication and a modern day approach to life, wouldn't you agree?

Its horrific, sadly innocent immigrants are getting caught up in it.

This was not happening in the country before the protests, but as the violence flared up, there was a mass exodus of immigrants and foreign workers from the country. At least one hundred thousand including Europeans, Americans, but mainly North Africans, etc.

Gaddafi recruited in sub-Saharan black mercenaries (noted for their brutality and compliance) to help "quell" the protests. Unfortunately this is the terrible backlash. Not just this, but 42 years of internal security, there will be a lot of revenge for the tortured and disappeared.

Its nasty, village mob justice.

mikemac · 21-10-2011 3:53pm

Very hard to make out what's going on in that execution

I thought this was a straightforward civil war, rebels against the establishment
Is there a religious element to it?

Were the mercenaries a different religion?
The mob crying Allahu Akbar as the prisoner is hanging there

nacho libre · 21-10-2011 4:53pm

So the Tuareg tribesmen, who fought for Gadaffi, and NTC rebels have something in common; a hatred of black Africans.
It's further evidence many of these fighters weren't fighting for a representative society to emerge post Gadaffi.

Nodin · 21-10-2011 4:57pm

This has been going on for months......

halkar · 21-10-2011 4:57pm

the devil you know is better than the devil you don't

Jonny7 · 21-10-2011 7:20pm

nacho libre wrote: »

So the Tuareg tribesmen, who fought for Gadaffi, and NTC rebels have something in common; a hatred of black Africans.
It's further evidence many of these fighters weren't fighting for a representative society to emerge post Gadaffi.

Have you actually followed this conflict or are you just completely speculating ?

there were tens of thousands of black immigrants in the country before the uprising. Then weren't being lynched then. The current reprisals are because black mercenaries were being used against the Libyan people.

The protesters and rebels wanted rid of the dictator in their country, like the Tunisians, like the Egyptians, like the Syrians, like a dozen other countries in the region.

Hmm I wonder why they are being put under the microscope so much, anything to do with the "West" being involved?

AlekSmart · 21-10-2011 7:28pm

Nodin wrote: »

This has been going on for months......

Months indeed...oddly enough the initial reports began to appear just about the same time as the "Popular Revolutionaries" against Gadaffi finally started to flex their NATO aided muscles.

Oddly enough "this" has never been an issue pre-revolution,due no doubt,to Gadaffi's brutal repression of his people....?

It's now the accepted logic to refer to the entirety of the "Black" African population of Libya as "Mercenaries"...however the vast majority of those people were gastarbeiter,working feverishly to complete the raft of Public Works projects which were ongoing in the country pre-popular revolution.....:(

Nodin · 21-10-2011 7:35pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

...........

Oddly enough "this" has never been an issue pre-revolution,due no doubt,to Gadaffi's brutal repression of his people....?

....because angry mobs weren't targeting every "black" they saw as being a mercenary, because he wasn't relying on them, because there wasn't a revolution.

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's now the accepted logic to refer to the entirety of the "Black" African population of Libya as "Mercenaries"...

By who?

TOMASJ · 21-10-2011 11:39pm

It seems that enough people in Libya, unlike us, actually realize that while some talk about going to a war crimes court, for dealing with your enemies, such as mercenerie blacks, that theres really little point in all that decent
civilised sh1t, . . . . .WHEN YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN ONE!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02a_1301531604 (tough to watch public violent beheading execution video, you've been warned)
yeah theyre blacks being murdered in front of a cheering crowd with their . . . .hip expencive cameraphones which give the crowd an air of sophistication and a modern day approach to life, wouldn't you agree?

These clowns baying for the death of a black man in Lybia,

Will find in a few years time , " if things dont go the way the Nato killers" (Oil contracts) that this and a lot of other videos will be used as evidence of war crimes against innocent citizens.

nacho libre · 22-10-2011 10:51pm

Jonny7 wrote: »

Have you actually followed this conflict or are you just completely speculating ?

there were tens of thousands of black immigrants in the country before the uprising. Then weren't being lynched then. The current reprisals are because black mercenaries were being used against the Libyan people.

So you keep saying .While some of the people who fought on his side may well have been black mercenaries
Others that came to fight for Gadaffi were Tuareg tribesmen from Niger and other regions close to Libya.
It may well be the case that Gadaffi kept a lid on bigotry and racism against black people in Libya. As he did on Islamic extremism.
So these reprisals might not simply be a case of revenge against black mercenaries as you make out. Since if this were the case we should be hearing about reprisals against Tuareg tribesmen captured in Libya.

Brown Bomber · 23-10-2011 1:51am

Jonny7 wrote: »

Its horrific, sadly innocent immigrants are getting caught up in it.

Caught up in it? You don't get caught up in ethnic cleansing when it's your own ethnic group being cleansed.

Jonny7 wrote: »

This was not happening in the country before the protests,

Yes it was. You are apparently unaware of the anti-immigration riots of 2000 where over a hundred immigrants were killed according to the EU?

Jonny7 wrote: »

but as the violence flared up, there was a mass exodus of immigrants and foreign workers from the country. At least one hundred thousand including Europeans, Americans, but mainly North Africans, etc.

Yes, the white immigrants, but not the West Africans who were there illegally and didn't have papers so couldn't leave.

Jonny7 wrote: »

Gaddafi recruited in sub-Saharan black mercenaries

Again no. Amnesty International who have investigators on the ground have stated that there is little to no evidence of this.

Jonny7 wrote: »

(noted for their brutality and compliance) to help "quell" the protests. Unfortunately this is the terrible backlash. Not just this, but 42 years of internal security, there will be a lot of revenge for the tortured and disappeared.

Do you think that Libyan people are stupid? That they didn't notice that one in every 6 of their population were already immigrants? Why would they target black people with no connection to Gadaffi's regime if the rebels were fighting for freedom and justice?

Jonny7 wrote: »

Its nasty, village mob justice.

No. It's NATO sponsored lynchings , ethnic cleansing and humanrightsinvestigations.org goes as far to call it genocide

But your free to believe whatever old nonsense you want. Such as the viagra-fuelled rape missions, Gadaffi killing his own soliders for failing to shoot on the protestors etc In fact I can give you the link of a guy in Scotland who pretends to be an oppressed Syrian lesbian if you like?

Denerick · 23-10-2011 2:13am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No. It's NATO sponsored lynchings , ethnic cleansing and humanrightsinvestigations.org goes as far to call it genocide

Now all we're missing is a musical ensemble, gigantic trumpets, and a fainting obese Italian woman. Could you possibly be more exaggerated or melodramatic about this?

But your free to believe whatever old nonsense you want. Such as the viagra-fuelled rape missions, Gadaffi killing his own soliders for failing to shoot on the protestors etc In fact I can give you the link of a guy in Scotland who pretends to be an oppressed Syrian lesbian if you like?

I know conspiracy theories offer a kind of comfort for disjointed minds, and that Gadaffi was just a nice, misunderstood gent and all... But how you link the academic who pretended to be a Syrian Lesbian on the internet with the war crimes that Gadaffi allegedly carried out is curious to say the least. I assume you're creating a link with what what some loner (albeit a creative loner) did on the internet with a blog and with what many thousands of eye witnesses and media organisations alledge the Gadaffi regime carried out on its own people?

Tell me, is it always the first instinct of conspiracy theorists to create casual links between anonymous bloggers and verifiable war crimes?

Brown Bomber · 23-10-2011 2:54am

Denerick wrote: »

Now all we're missing is a musical ensemble, gigantic trumpets, and a fainting obese Italian woman. Could you possibly be more exaggerated or melodramatic about this?

I know conspiracy theories offer a kind of comfort for disjointed minds, and that Gadaffi was just a nice, misunderstood gent and all... But how you link the academic who pretended to be a Syrian Lesbian on the internet with the war crimes that Gadaffi allegedly carried out is curious to say the least. I assume you're creating a link with what what some loner (albeit a creative loner) did on the internet with a blog and with what many thousands of eye witnesses and media organisations alledge the Gadaffi regime carried out on its own people?

Tell me, is it always the first instinct of conspiracy theorists to create casual links between anonymous bloggers and verifiable war crimes?

I shall report your post for abuse and not lower myself to your level. Otherwise I assume you are unaware that the story that was all over the media of the Libyan soliders who killed their own who wouldn't fire on protestors turned out to be a massacre by the rebels? Or that Amnesty International found no evidence of the mass rape policy.

Donatella Rovera, senior crisis response adviser for Amnesty, who was in Libya for three months after the start of the uprising, said "we have not found any evidence or a single victim of rape or a doctor who knew about somebody being raped".
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/libya/news/article.cfm?l_id=467&objectid=10734384

The linking of the these fraudelent events with the fake Syrian lesbian should be obvious.

Victor · 23-10-2011 7:11am

The poeple who left in the months after the civil war started were predominantly guest workers and their families.

The recent spate of killings has been based on the assumption that any black person is a mercenary, including people who have been longterm Libyan residents.

nacho libre wrote: »

So you keep saying .While some of the people who fought on his side may well have been black mercenaries
Others that came to fight for Gadaffi were Tuareg tribesmen from Niger and other regions close to Libya.
It may well be the case that Gadaffi kept a lid on bigotry and racism against black people in Libya. As he did on Islamic extremism.
So these reprisals might not simply be a case of revenge against black mercenaries as you make out. Since if this were the case we should be hearing about reprisals against Tuareg tribesmen captured in Libya.

Taureg people, given their location / origin vary in complection from Mediterranean to West African Black:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuareg_people

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=Tuareg&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1501l1501l0l3287l1l1l0l0l0l0l162l162l0.1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=562&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

I'm not sure that a lid was kept on bigotry in pre-war days - much of the faction ifghting is down to tribalism and how certain tribes were favoured over others.

dsmythy · 23-10-2011 10:59am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Again no. Amnesty International who have investigators on the ground have stated that there is little to no evidence of this.

No. It's NATO sponsored lynchings , ethnic cleansing and humanrightsinvestigations.org goes as far to call it genocide

Do yourself a favour and stop linking to humanrightsinvestigations.org. However I'd like to see links to what Amnesty are saying.

Denerick · 23-10-2011 12:27pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I shall report your post for abuse and not lower myself to your level.

How noble of you... God the melodrama is reaching critical mass here, very soon two 18th century gentlemen are going to barge in and demand a duel to satisfy the assault on their honour.

Otherwise I assume you are unaware that the story that was all over the media of the Libyan soliders who killed their own who wouldn't fire on protestors turned out to be a massacre by the rebels? Or that Amnesty International found no evidence of the mass rape policy.

You're discussing particulars when I'm discussing generalities. You would have us believe that the Libyan rebels are western backed neo colonialists and that all of this is merely a ploy for western oil interests. Again, a very comforting thought if your mind is disjointed and willing to lap up conspiracy theories but those of us in the real world require a little more... evidence? Rather than 'deduction'. The problem with a conspiracy theorist's logical deduction is that they conclude precisely what they want to conclude from the available evidence.

Donatella Rovera, senior crisis response adviser for Amnesty, who was in Libya for three months after the start of the uprising, said "we have not found any evidence or a single victim of rape or a doctor who knew about somebody being raped".
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/libya/news/article.cfm?l_id=467&objectid=10734384

The linking of the these fraudelent events with the fake Syrian lesbian should be obvious.

Not a single rape? That high profile 'breakthrough' by the New Zealand Herald has surely gripped the world to rights and has broken down all of our mere preconceptions of what happened in Libya. Its lucky that there are some people who are able to believe absolutely everything they see, read and hear providing it chimes with their preconcieved narrative...

I'm afraid the link of an academic loners exploits on a blog and mass rape in Libya exists only in your troubled and confused mind.

walshb · 23-10-2011 6:35pm

No matter how bad the colonel was, I just wonder will his replacemets be any better. Maybe it's a case now of out of the frying pan and into.....

Brown Bomber · 23-10-2011 8:57pm

dsmythy wrote: »

Do yourself a favour and stop linking to humanrightsinvestigations.org.

Why? Do you deny the lynchings of black people in Libya or do you simply not want to hear about it?

dsmythy wrote: »

However I'd like to see links to what Amnesty are saying.

Diana Eltahawy, Amnesty International, North Africa Researcher speaking from Tripoli and referring to the black mercenaries as "rumours", "largely unfounded".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDRbdXp0Du4

And here is Human Rights Watch for good measure on the same issue in the East of the country.

HRW: No Mercanaries In Eastern Libya

Human Rights Watch says it has seen no evidence of mercenaries being used in eastern Libya. This contradicts widespread earlier reports in the international media that African soldiers had been flown in to fight rebels in the region as Muammar Gaddafi sought to keep control.
In an interview with Radio Netherlands Worldwide in Libya, Peter Bouckaert from Human Rights Watch said he had conducted research and found no proof of mercenaries being used. Investigator Bouckaert, who has been in the region for two weeks, told RNW that he had been to Al Bayda after receiving reports that 156 mercenaries had been arrested there.
Black Libyans
The town is to the east of the city Benghazi and is also in the hands of the anti-Gaddafi protesters.
The rights investigator said that what he found there were, in fact, 156 soldiers from the south of Libya and not from another African country. After talking to them he found out that they were all black Libyans of African descent. The soldiers have since been released by the protesters.
According to Bouckaert, the support of the black southern Libyans for the Gaddafi regime is explicable as Gaddafi fought to counter discrimination against this group in Libyan society.
In the west
RNW's Mohammed Abdulrahman, who interviewed Bouckaert in Benghazi, says that the fact that there are few economic opportunities in the south also leads to southern Libyans joining the army.
HRW has so far only conducted research in the east of the country which is under the control of the protesters, but it says it could well be the case that reports of mercenaries being used in the areas still under government control in the west are also inaccurate.
Unverified
International media report that the mercenaries are gathering in the central southern town of Sabha, known to be loyal to Gaddafi, and are being sent out from there.
Our reporter says the southern location of the town means it is possible that the soldiers here are also from the south of the country and not African mercenaries as claimed in the international media. As the area is under control of Gaddafi's forces this cannot be verified.

Brown Bomber · 23-10-2011 9:08pm

Denerick wrote: »

You're discussing particulars when I'm discussing generalities. You would have us believe that the Libyan rebels are western backed neo colonialists and that all of this is merely a ploy for western oil interests. Again, a very comforting thought if your mind is disjointed and willing to lap up conspiracy theories but those of us in the real world require a little more... evidence? Rather than 'deduction'. The problem with a conspiracy theorist's logical deduction is that they conclude precisely what they want to conclude from the available evidence.

Strawmen and ad-homs. Not actually interested in your unpleasantness so I'll report again and hope something happens this time.

Denerick wrote: »

Not a single rape? That high profile 'breakthrough' by the New Zealand Herald has surely gripped the world to rights and has broken down all of our mere preconceptions of what happened in Libya. Its lucky that there are some people who are able to believe absolutely everything they see, read and hear providing it chimes with their preconcieved narrative...

More nastyness. Anyway, it wasn't a "breakthrough" by the NZ Herald it was reporting on the results of an Amnesty International investigation, which you've just conveniently ignored. It wasn't even first published in the NZ Herald but the Independent and was written by award winning journalist Alexander Cockburn for the London Independent.

Denerick · 23-10-2011 9:13pm

Why do you get so easily offended? I'm making the point that you're conveniently listening to the evidence which supports your predrawn conclusions and ignoring the ones that don't - the classic reasoning style of the conspiracy theorist. Do you actually deny this or are you just getting offended because you enjoy the thought of being some kind of oppressed underdog, bravely speaking truth to power? (Another trait of the conspiracy theorist, but lets not go there)

Brown Bomber · 23-10-2011 9:27pm

Denerick wrote: »

Why do you get so easily offended? I'm making the point that you're conveniently listening to the evidence which supports your predrawn conclusions and ignoring the ones that don't - the classic reasoning style of the conspiracy theorist. Do you actually deny this or are you just getting offended because you enjoy the thought of being some kind of oppressed underdog, bravely speaking truth to power? (Another trait of the conspiracy theorist, but lets not go there)

Can't help yourself can you? Is it easily offended to be accused of having a mental illness repeatedly? Anway, I'm not interested in defending myself from your strawman arguments.

AlekSmart · 23-10-2011 9:28pm

http://www.rnw.nl/africa/article/hrw-no-mercenaries-eastern-libya-0

The link posted by Brown Bomber is quite interesting.

I note that HRW's Peter Bouckaert has been filing some far more reasoned reports from Libya than has been the norm from other individuals.

Almost from the begininning of this campaign,the awful beastliness of Col Gadaffi and particularly his willingness to pay non-Libyans to murder his own citizens has been a central plank of the entire uprising.

It has always smacked to me of invention and malice and still does.

To see Mr Bouckaert refer to Col Gadaffi having "Fought to counter discrimination against Blacks in Libyan society" evokes a sense of great sadness in me as I struggle to match this progressive attitude up to the "Mad Dog" Cruel Despotic Evil Dictator image so beloved of U.N./NATO and the Rebel factions now reigning triumphant.

If I were Peter Bouckaert I would be taking a little more care with my personal security measures,as if this line of investigation proceeds much further it may be judged to be counter to the aims of the Revolution .......Libya is now far from being under the rule of ANY law,so he who shoots first calls the rest of the shots too.

Border-Rat · 23-10-2011 9:36pm

After reading the OP, I think its time for France to start bombing NTC suspects. :rolleyes:

dsmythy · 23-10-2011 9:48pm

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Why? Do you deny the lynchings of black people in Libya or do you simply not want to hear about it?

humanrightsinvestigations has a NATO/rebel bashing editorial so you can't believe a word it says. Which is why I'm now checking out the Amnesty links you have given us.

Brown Bomber · 24-10-2011 12:49am

dsmythy wrote: »

humanrightsinvestigations has a NATO/rebel bashing editorial so you can't believe a word it says. Which is why I'm now checking out the Amnesty links you have given us.

Similarly and using that logic the New York Times, for example has an anti-Gadaffi editorial so therefore you can't believe a word it says and we if extend that to all non-objective news sources there won't be many words, if any left to believe.

Brown Bomber · 24-10-2011 1:00am

AlekSmart wrote: »

Almost from the begininning of this campaign,the awful beastliness of Col Gadaffi and particularly his willingness to pay non-Libyans to murder his own citizens has been a central plank of the entire uprising.

It has always smacked to me of invention and malice and still does.

I think this is a key point. For example, in the formative days a large part of pleading by the rebels to the international community for a no-fly-zone was to stop the "black mercenaries" flying in. I think it is reckless propoganda which has continued throughout the war; inside and outside Libya which has led to black civilians being rounded up, even dragged from hospital beds, tortured killed and ethnically cleansed.

The whole official narrative has been a battle between Gadaffi and his corrupt henchmen vs the unified people of Libya. Black immigrants and indeed black Libyans fighting out of sense of loyalty to Gadaffi or to protect their own way of life doesn't fit this narrative and lynchings and other racially motivated crimes are a result of this.

dsmythy · 24-10-2011 2:38am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Similarly and using that logic the New York Times, for example has an anti-Gadaffi editorial so therefore you can't believe a word it says and we if extend that to all non-objective news sources there won't be many words, if any left to believe.

A newspaper can't afford to be stung lying through it's teeth. Some random unaffiliated blog doesn't care.

Victor · 24-10-2011 4:13am

The are black Africans, there are black Libyans, there is tribal warfare, there are mercenaries*. Whether the three coincide seems to be another matter.

* Libya has long used foreign pilots. In the war with Chad, East German pilots bombed a French airfield. And like many Middle Eastern countries Libya has been very dependent of foreign skills.

WakeUp · 24-10-2011 7:46am

Denerick wrote: »

I know conspiracy theories offer a kind of comfort for disjointed minds,

You have hit the nail on the head there alright. Reminds me of George Bush and Tony Blair and their delusional conspiracy theory something about WMD and Iraq if I remember correctly. Now that was the mother of all conspiracy theories two war criminals knee deep in blood pretending to be leaders of the "free" world. Kinda scary when you think that such powerful influential war criminals have such disjointed minds and are still among us and not behind bars where they belong. Crazy conspiracy theorists and their wacky "theories".

Tell me, is it always the first instinct of conspiracy theorists to create casual links between anonymous bloggers and verifiable war crimes?

.
Fire an email off to Colin Powell and his "sources". He should be able to help answer that for you.

With regard to the OP a more one side reporting of an international conflict on the ground I find hard to remember. We pretty much got one side of the battle considering it was a civil war hardly a fair and unbias documentation of events. The "rebels"/Islamists/Genuine fighters/terrorists had a free hand. If anything untoward is going on by these Western backed "rebels" dont expect to see it reported and talked about on the 6'O'clock news anytime soon. Who knows what sort of revenge/killing is being undertaken by the "rebels" at their whim and as is their want. Libya is a country full of "rebels" armed to the teeth with a free hand to kill. All sort of retribution ethnic cleansing could be happening but you certainly wont see it on Sky,CNN,BBC,RTE, those trusted bastions of free and non partial reporting. So the thinking goes if it isnt reported by an "official" source well then of course it cant be true and should be disregarded as "false". Who knows what is going over there in Libya at the moment answer is we just dont.

Alopex · 24-10-2011 9:45am

As much as I hate gaddafi, the NTC sound a lot worse

Libya. Ghost-town of Tawergha. Apartheid and Executions of Blacks.

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