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24-11-2011, 09:28   #31
MLMwatch
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You can join Lyoness by just buying 300 euros worth of vouchers for one of several reputable shops for which you are imediately credited a discount. This is cheaper than free. If it is a scam it is a very inefficient one.

If you wish to put down the 2k you can but Lyoness would be very interested to get the names of anybody who is pressuring people to do so.

Lyoness runs a limited company in each country with salaried staff and a physical office. They pay VAT here for heaven's sake. I know the Genie didn't.

I have seen my share of scams and this one isn't.
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24-11-2011, 10:47   #32
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Yes it is a scam.
You are probably a business partner or a misinformed sucker.
The 300€ that a new sucker "invests" doesn't go towards an account with any particular shop.
You can't go to a shop with your Lyoness "account" of 300€ and expect them to use your "account" + a reduction against whatever you want to purchase. LOL This is exactly what the BP's want you to believe.
The 300€represents a "position". In order to benefit from their position they must retain new members under them (pyramid) who contribute new "accounts". Otherwise they must make purchases from shops that accept the card (give me the name of 5 shops that accept the Lyoness cards) such that the residual commission (4%-30%(you must be dreaming)) adds enough value...in your case 300€(residual commisions) to use their "account". In this case we're talking about 5k to 10k in new purchases
This whole thing will implode pretty soon.
The BP's are frantically attempting to find new suckers before the shtf.
Just for fun give me the total euro amount of purchases made directly with the Lyoness cashback card in the UK or Ireland in 2010.
It's a ponzi scheme...how on earth do you think that all the new "members" are going to profit equally...Lyoness can't print money, but they can steal it.
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24-11-2011, 11:00   #33
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A reasoned response

That post is unique in that there is almost nothing correct in it.
Ignoring the argumentum ad hominem for the moment,
The 300 euro I mentioned is actual gift cards for a shop such as Tescos and are readily accepted. Once you buy them through Lyoness the discount is front loaded - some going to a position account and some back as cash.

Five shops ? ok
Stillorgan Orchard
Pacinos Restaurant
Little Flowers Stillorgan
Yours Personally Dun Laoghaire
Carrol Meats near Tallaght

How many more would you like ? There are nearly 200 businesses in Ireland accepting the card but it is early days.
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24-11-2011, 11:32   #34
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Actually Mr Cabbage, save us both some time.
http://www.lyoness.net/internal/ie/cashbacktype/allcard
lists the 108 shops fully in the system accepting the card in Ireland but doesn't show the ones in the pipeline. To see the full discounts you need to log on as a user. The casual browser will only see the 3% cashback/friendship bonus.

The amounts of money traded are none of our business but I know that Tesco are extremely happy and getting happier on a daily basis.

The only thing you got right was that yes I am a business partner. Please don't join my lifeline.

Since 1980 I have dabbled in half a dozen MLM's. Two were a disaster, several were ok but not for me. Lyoness is by far the best.

Do your homework.
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24-11-2011, 17:24   #35
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Anyone familiar with the scam already knows your're a BP...you don't have to tell us.

Two out of the five businesses you named (I called them on the telephone) aren't doing any business through Lyoness. 0% Yes you read that correctly 0%

One of the businesses doesn't exist under the name you gave.

...you see we've already cold called(our homework) for AUSTRIA(same results...little or 0% of business sales), where they've had 8 years to develop and where the pyramid started...the BP's there all driving Ferraris now...you won't be because you're too low down in the pyramid, despite the fact that you've convinced yourself otherwise. ...they will have moved on the S America or Singapor for fresh meat(new BP's).

You see people are catching on...you've caught on (16000 in your account for 20 new members) but are still probably trying to sell this poison to people you know.

When I asked one of the restos how many of his customers out of 100 risked using the card he hesitated, stuttered and eventually said 5 out of 100...I asked him if he was a BP and he replied that yes he was ...poor fool was obviously lying

The best call was when an employee at one of your businesses actually came out and said that her boss tried to "sell" (I know your not supposed to use the term sell) her and other employees on the scheme that they KNOW to be a SCAM! They're afraid to say anything to the boss...understandable that they want to keep their jobs...
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25-11-2011, 00:51   #36
MLMwatch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Cabbage View Post
The 300€ that a new sucker "invests" doesn't go towards an account with any particular shop.
Completely incorrect.

The 300 I was talking about is a purchase of vouchers for one of the big trading partners. It represents 300 worth of purchasing power at that shop ( Tescos, M&S, PC world or similar ). It is not on your Lyoness card which is not a debit card anyway - it is their own vouchers.

YOU CAN BECOME A SHOPPER AND GET THE CARD BY MERELY SHOPPING AND YOU ARE STILL ABLE TO RECOMMEND PEOPLE AND GET YOUR HALF PERCENTS AND DISCOUNTS WITHOUT ANY PAYMENT INTO THE SYSTEM WHATSOEVER.

Is that clear ?

A purchase of that size gets you a card with discount up front. No down payment - no 2k - no cost because you get the value straight back and have a discount to show for it.

You have a very sketchy understanding of the system. I do not propose to address all your knowledge gaps through here - I should live that long. We would bore everyone silly.

I propose that we meet for a chat. We can talk it through and answer all your queries. I would not expect to convert you in any way but at least you would have your facts straight. If you still oppose Lyoness at least it would be informed criticism.

Are you that open minded ?

For my own business, I have had a couple of extra customers through Lyoness but I anticipated a slow burn because the catchment is still relatively small. Less than 10,000 customers in Ireland but growing fast. There are no subscription fees or ongoing charges so I can wait.

So the retailer gets a turn key international loyalty system for just over 2K with no subscription costs - try and find it cheaper.

It is pointless asking a signed up retailer if they are a BP - he/she has to be to bring their business in. Another knowledge gap ?

I always encourage people to dip their toe in the water and shop with the card first. They then see how it works. If they want to take it to the next level it has to be their decision.

Not everyone does it that way admittedly.

You asked for 5 example businesses - I gave you 108.

Will you accept the challenge ?
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25-11-2011, 13:03   #37
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25-11-2011, 14:34   #38
sirreally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLMwatch View Post
...the retailer gets a turn key international loyalty system for just over 2K with no subscription costs - try and find it cheaper.
How about free? Fatcheese.ie (no affiliation) gives consumers cash back on purchases in over 900 retailers in Ireland. No up-front investments are required from participating retailers; they only pay for results. Simple.
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25-11-2011, 15:22   #39
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Cheers for that Sirrealy, I had a quick look. Looks good.

While Lyoness is unique in it's combination of offerings there are several other companies offering part of what they do. This would be another one which I hadn't heard of.
There is also www.cashbackcard.com

It's a big world out there.
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25-11-2011, 21:01   #40
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Quack Quack,
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26-11-2011, 08:59   #41
Red Cabbage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLMwatch View Post
Completely incorrect.

The 300 I was talking about is a purchase of vouchers for one of the big trading partners. It represents 300 worth of purchasing power at that shop ( Tescos, M&S, PC world or similar ). It is not on your Lyoness card which is not a debit card anyway - it is their own vouchers.

YOU CAN BECOME A SHOPPER AND GET THE CARD BY MERELY SHOPPING AND YOU ARE STILL ABLE TO RECOMMEND PEOPLE AND GET YOUR HALF PERCENTS AND DISCOUNTS WITHOUT ANY PAYMENT INTO THE SYSTEM WHATSOEVER.

Is that clear ?

A purchase of that size gets you a card with discount up front. No down payment - no 2k - no cost because you get the value straight back and have a discount to show for it.

You have a very sketchy understanding of the system. I do not propose to address all your knowledge gaps through here - I should live that long. We would bore everyone silly.

I propose that we meet for a chat. We can talk it through and answer all your queries. I would not expect to convert you in any way but at least you would have your facts straight. If you still oppose Lyoness at least it would be informed criticism.

Are you that open minded ?

For my own business, I have had a couple of extra customers through Lyoness but I anticipated a slow burn because the catchment is still relatively small. Less than 10,000 customers in Ireland but growing fast. There are no subscription fees or ongoing charges so I can wait.

So the retailer gets a turn key international loyalty system for just over 2K with no subscription costs - try and find it cheaper.

It is pointless asking a signed up retailer if they are a BP - he/she has to be to bring their business in. Another knowledge gap ?

I always encourage people to dip their toe in the water and shop with the card first. They then see how it works. If they want to take it to the next level it has to be their decision.

Not everyone does it that way admittedly.

You asked for 5 example businesses - I gave you 108.

Will you accept the challenge ?
Pathetic.
Do you read the posts?
We just stated very clearly that a dozen hotel/restaurants in Austria that we called explained that the Lyoness card is nearly worthless. This is where it all started...in Austria 8 years ago. If the card is useless, there's no commercial value. The only income being generated is to "sell" to new BP's for 2000€ in blocked accounts. This is the definition of a pyramide scam.
You're digging your own grave. Keep digging...
Thousands of potentially gullible and/or credulous people reading this forum are now forewarned as to what they can be transformed in to, after their 2000€ evaporates...no sorry... after their 2000€ is transfered to Austria...

BP partner's(account purchases) (Lyoness income) through Oct 2011 2,000,000 x 2,000€=4,000,000,000€ income to the psychopaths at the top of the pyramid...that's 4 billion €
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26-11-2011, 13:35   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Cabbage View Post
BP partner's(account purchases) (Lyoness income) through Oct 2011 2,000,000 x 2,000€=4,000,000,000€ income to the psychopaths at the top of the pyramid...that's 4 billion €
Just so we're not getting too carried away here, the (completely unsubstantiated) 2 million figure they talk about is the number of consumers they claim hold Lyoness loyalty cards, which are free.
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26-11-2011, 13:45   #43
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Yes I do read the posts and I take more notice of them than you seem to. Sure some places will do better than others.
You do not know for example that there is a strict limit to how many business partners are needed in each country to build the business which is shopping at the end of the day.

Maybe the 100,000 places around Europe that accept the card and the 2,000,000 customers have it wrong. Maybe Carrefour, M&S, Tescos, PC World, ASDA, OMV and Kika are all deluded.

I figured you would either be reasonable and get together for a chat to fill in your obvious gaps or you would drop into a rant, reveal your true colours and blow your credibility with me and other readers of this forum.

Sadly the latter has occurred.

I will waste no more keystrokes here. You have made up your mind.

Have a nice life.
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26-11-2011, 13:49   #44
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Originally Posted by sirreally View Post
Just so we're not getting too carried away here, the (completely unsubstantiated) 2 million figure they talk about is the number of consumers they claim hold Lyoness loyalty cards, which are free.
Well said sir - the figure can easily be verified. I would be surprised if 1% are business partners.
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26-11-2011, 14:24   #45
Bandara
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There is only one person here with no credibility
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