Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
09-09-2011, 11:29   #1
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 393
is there a party wall act for Ireland?

Hello,
Google throws up lots of references to UK party wall act, but none for Ireland...

My issue: neighbor building on a kitchen extension. Didn't need pp as under area that is exempt. He is building right up to his boundary line, which I understand he is entitled to do.

However we want to extend next year, and this will mean we will be unable to access our wall to render it and make it damp proof. So the question is, should we go with an agreed party wall straddling the boundary? But I am concernd when the time comes (we will have to apply for pp) he will not agree to our structure. He would not be a very agreeable character.

There was stone party wall along the boundary between the 2 patios which we let the builders take down. This wall extended out about 4 feet. Realise now we shouldn't have done that...

We are sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Some info I have read says that building a party wall out on the boundary devalues your property?


Any advice (specially if there is a party wall act and someone can give me link to it ) would be most helpful

Thanks.
Dublin_Mom is offline  
Advertisement
09-09-2011, 12:21   #2
DOCARCH
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 13,094
Sorry - have to be very brief. No Party Wall Act in Ireland.

In my view it is common sense for two neighbours to agree to remove the existing boundary wall and that the side wall of new extension be centred on the party line for use by the other partiy in the future rather than built just inside the existing boundary wall for the reasons you suggest.

If one neighbour is considering building a completely different structure or maybe a two storey structure in the future then I would suggest that the external face of any new external wall be on the party line so any furture extension to the other side can also be built tight to the party line resulting in no gap to be fill in bewteen the two extensions.
DOCARCH is online now  
09-09-2011, 16:29   #3
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 393
Thanks , Docarch, for your reply.

If we want to construct 2 seperate walls (and my current feeling is we do) then we are going to ask neighbour if he would build to his side of the old boundary wall demarcation. This would give us a few inches to get in and render our wall when it is built.

If he refuses and wants to build right up to the boundary edge (which I understand is his right) could we be a pain and refuse his buiders access to our side of the property to render and damp proof his wall?

Note I do not want to do this if possible, in the interests of good neighborliness, but we need to have some bargaining tool..
Dublin_Mom is offline  
09-09-2011, 16:55   #4
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,287
The following is a text issued by the RIAI in 1998.

To be perfectly honest I don't know if any subsequent acts supersede it.
Your best course of action is to make first an informal agreement then quickly formal agreement with neighbor.

Contact a solicitor to oversee this and expect him/her to ask you to appoint an Architect . You should seek to maximise your site potential with a party wall centered on the boundary . A competent Architect can prepare a drawing for a wall taking into account what both you and your neighbor want to build.

Quote:
(Issued April 1998)

It has often been remarked that while London had detailed and well-known party wall legislation, there did not seem to be any corresponding provisions in this jurisdiction. But this, in fact, is not so. The Dublin Corporation Act 1890 is a private act dealing with, amongst many other things, party walls. A private act is one which is not of general application but applies only to a particular person or locality.

This little known piece of legislation deals with a wide range of matters which would have come under the responsibility of Dublin Corporation towards the end of the 19th Century. While some parts of the Act have been repealed over the years, a considerable amount is still in force, in particular the parts dealing with party walls.

The old Building Bye-laws adopted by Dublin Corporation in 1949 were primarly based on the Public Health (Ireland) Act 1878 but at a number of points referred to the 1890 Act. These Bye-laws are, of course, completely superseded by the Building Regulations.

The Building Control Act at Section 22 says that no further Bye-laws shall be made under Section 33 of the 1890 Act. This was the section giving the corporation power to alter and repeal Bye-laws for regulating alterations and repairs to building erected before the commencement of that Act.

The sections of the 1890 Act dealing with party walls are those numbered 11 to 28. They start off by saying that anybody who wishes to undertake work to a party wall shall be called the building owner and the owner of the other premises involved shall be called the adjoining owner. Section 12 of the Act lists the basic rights of the building owner and they are very considerable. They may be summarised as follows:

1. A right to make good or repair any party structure that is defective or out of repair and a right to pull down and rebuild any party structure that is so defective or out of repair as to make it necessary or desirable to pull down the same.

2. There was a general right to pull down and rebuild any party structures which were not in conformity with any enactments or Bye-laws which existed at the time.

3. A right to raise any party structure or any external wall built against a party structure on condition that any damage to the adjoining property is repaired.

4. a right to pull down a party structure that is of insufficient strength for any building intended to be built.

5. A right to cut into any party structure, again upon condition of making good any damage to the adjoining premises.

6. A very important right, and one which might often need to be relied on, is the right to cut away any footing or chimney breasts, etc. projecting from any party wall in order to build an external wall against the party wall.

To balance this, the adjoining owner may require the building owner when exercising any of the previous rights to give him the opportunity to build in any convenient items such as chimney jambs, piers, recesses, etc. provided that these particular works would not cause unnecessary inconvenience or delay.

Unless the adjoining owner consents or unless the structure is dangerous, three months notice must be given to the adjoining owner of the intention to carry out the work. A notice must be delivered either personally or by registered post. On the receipt of such notice the adjoining owner may then require the building owner to build in any of the items previously mentioned and again this is done by a similar method of notice.

If either owner does not within fourteen days express consent it shall be taken that a difference has arisen between them. The provision then is that the parties shall appoint an architect to resolve the dispute and if they cannot agree then they shall appoint an architect each and these two shall in turn shall appoint a third architect to resolve the matter. Any award given under this system is final but there is a right of appeal to the “quarter sessions” which was the second court of the three-tier system and presumably therefore would equate to the Circuit Court. This appeal must be made within fourteen days of the decision being made by the architect or architects. There is a further right of appeal to the High Court.

Finally, there are provisions for dealing with the costs and expenses involved and the general rule is that the costs shall be borne by each of the owners in “due proportion” except in a number of circumstances listed where the cost shall be borne thy the building owner. There are sections dealing with how the accounts of the two owners are to be presented, settled and appealed.
sinnerboy is offline  
09-09-2011, 16:57   #5
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublin_Mom View Post
could we be a pain and refuse his buiders access to our side of the property to render and damp proof his wall?

Note I do not want to do this if possible, in the interests of good neighborliness, but we need to have some bargaining tool..
Bad strategy. Confrontation usually begets confrontation.
sinnerboy is offline  
Advertisement
09-09-2011, 17:42   #6
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,287
Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009” Chapter 3 - Party Structures

Just found this update
sinnerboy is offline  
(2) thanks from:
09-09-2011, 18:22   #7
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,287
The Act in full




Quote:
Originally Posted by sinnerboy View Post
Contact a solicitor to oversee this and expect him/her to ask you to appoint an Architect .
sinnerboy is offline  
12-09-2011, 10:31   #8
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9
The best solution for all concerned would be to formalise a party wall agreement between yourself and your neighbour.
This would then allow the new wall to be centred on the party line (this should then be a on a continuous line to the existing party wall between you both making best use of buildable space). Make sure the agreement states that both the dwellings can use this wall as part of their fiuture extensions - his now and yours whenever you decide to build - it should also be clarified that this wall can be used for a two storey extension too, should either of you go down that route (more than likely subject to p.p.) in the future.
If he is building this wall now he will obviously have to weatherproof it on your side (render or similar) and on top (coping or letting the roof covering come over it. When you go to build in the future there may be remedial works necessary to the top of this wall depending on what height you are building too i.e. if you build two storey you will be removing the top covering of this wall to build up further therefore you will have to create a flashing between the raised wall and his roof.

Alternatively if you decide to build two seperate side by side walls, I would not be worried about the rendering of your new wall where it abuts his as you undoubtedly will have to flash at the top therefore preventing any water penetration into the void.
odkm is offline  
12-09-2011, 13:26   #9
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 393
Thanks for all replies. and references.
Neighbour has decided to go with a seperate wall, he claims that redoing his plans would cost too much money. So he is not interested in the party wall.

To be honest, given the difficulty we have had to date, I think seperate walls, albeit more costly and difficult to weather proof, is probably the least contentious way to go.

The motto 'good fences make good neighbours' springs to mind....

As we will now only have about 3 inches of space between the 2 walls, weathering is going to be difficult so will have to talk to builders about the best way to handle that.
Dublin_Mom is offline  
Advertisement
12-09-2011, 13:44   #10
BryanF
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublin_Mom View Post
As we will now only have about 3 inches of space between the 2 walls, weathering is going to be difficult so will have to talk to builders about the best way to handle that.
no, you need to talk with architect about that
BryanF is offline  
12-09-2011, 13:49   #11
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 393
Sorry, yes, both of them really. I figure the builder will be more familiar with the methods used to weatherproof a gap.
Dublin_Mom is offline  
10-10-2011, 14:21   #12
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4
This may be a bit late for you, but it may be worth while looking at this website, which gives information in relation to advice to owners adjoining works to the party wall: <SNIP>

Last edited by Poor Uncle Tom; 10-10-2011 at 14:33.
stepover is offline  
10-10-2011, 14:35   #13
Poor Uncle Tom
Registered User
 
Poor Uncle Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,739
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepover View Post
This may be a bit late for you, but it may be worth while looking at this website, which gives information in relation to advice to owners adjoining works to the party wall: <SNIP>
Please don't post up a link to a private company like that, read the charter before posting again.
Poor Uncle Tom is offline  
10-10-2011, 22:37   #14
bwdbwd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14
The Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009 has introduced specific provisions dealing with party structures. The Act came in to force on 1 December 2009. Now, if you own a property or land you can carry out works to the party structure in order to comply with a notice or order served on you, to carry out development which is exempted development or development for which planning permission has been granted, to preserve a party structure or to carry out other works which will not cause substantial damage or inconvenience to your neighbour.

What exactly is a “party structure”? It means any arch, ceiling, ditch, fence, floor, hedge, partition, shrub, tree, wall or other structure which divides property. It includes structures which are on your neighbour’s property or those which straddle the boundary line. “Works” are also widely defined and include amongst other things maintaining, repairing, replacing, strengthening, taking down, cutting hedges and trees, clearing ditches and carrying out inspections and drawing up plans.

The new laws do not give you the absolute right to do whatever you want. If you cause damage when you are carrying out the works you must make good the damage or reimburse your neighbour in order to allow them to do so. You must also pay your neighbour the reasonable costs of them obtaining professional advice to advise them on the consequences of the works which you purpose carrying out along with reasonable compensation for the inconvenience caused by the works. You should bear in mind that if the works that you are carrying out will be of benefit to your neighbour you may in certain cases be able to claim a contribution from them. If you fail to make good the damage within a reasonable time, you fail to reimburse costs or your neighbour fails to meet your claim for contribution then an application can be made to court.

If you simply cannot agree with your neighbour then you can apply to court for an order authorising the carrying out of the works and this is called a “Works Order”. The court can order the carrying out of the works on such conditions as it thinks is necessary. These conditions may be such as to allow you to enter on to your neighbours land to carry out the works and the order may require you to either indemnify your neighbours for any damage you may cause or give security to your neighbours. The works order cannot authorise a permanent interference with or loss of any right which your neighbour may have in relation to the party structure such as the right to light.

In spite of this new piece of legislation, the best way to live harmoniously with your neighbours is to discuss any development plans with them and carry out any works with their full understanding and consent. This legislation will be very useful as a last resort if this is not possible but there is no guarantee that your relationship with your neighbour will be any better in the long run if you avail of it.
bwdbwd is offline  
11-10-2011, 20:15   #15
sunnysoutheast
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublin_Mom View Post
Thanks for all replies. and references.
Neighbour has decided to go with a seperate wall, he claims that redoing his plans would cost too much money. So he is not interested in the party wall.

To be honest, given the difficulty we have had to date, I think seperate walls, albeit more costly and difficult to weather proof, is probably the least contentious way to go.

The motto 'good fences make good neighbours' springs to mind....

As we will now only have about 3 inches of space between the 2 walls, weathering is going to be difficult so will have to talk to builders about the best way to handle that.
Will the foundations of "his" wall be on "your" side of the original boundary? - if so this may cause you issues in the future unless provision is made now.

SSE
sunnysoutheast is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet