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10-01-2011, 00:05   #1
Torakx
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Ketosis

Ive tried a search on this forum and there doesnt seem to be a topic on this that i could find.
Im getting very confused now about what to do regarding carbs.

Ive suffered with candida probably since i was 17 (im 30 now) when i was pumped with anti biotics for an open crush injury on my finger.
I had collic at 18 and indegestion for many years including a complete nervous breakdown when it got really bad.
Anyway i eventually diagnosed candida on myself about a year and a half ago(please dont even consider mentioning a doctor that is a serious LOL regarding them and candida diagnosis) and now i think im pretty much clear,just have to stay off sugar and keep the carbs well down for a year or two..maybe always.

Im also doing as much exercise as my body can handle starting last week.Mostly cardio for martial arts, no heavy weights.
Im 5' 11" about 10- 10.5 stone id guess and there isnt much fat left on me after my candida diet which caused me to lose too much weight.
I have a very fast metabolism.

The issue im having is that im reading many different things about ketosis and not sure how this applies to my body since i had candida for over 10 years im sure.
Was only when i stopped exercising and had a bad diet that i broke down mentally.
Anyway im reading that you can go into toxicity with ketones which are acidic if your are a type one diabetic.
With candida so im not sure how that effects the body especially over a long period regarding making insulin.So thats one question i have if anyone happens to know.

Also im reading the side effects. Heres a copy paste of some i found,
http://www.3fatchicks.com/the-ketoge...ple-meal-plan/
Quote:
Positives and Negatives of the Ketogenic Diet

  • Positive – It has proven to work effectively with children who suffer with refractory epilepsy. It may also offer some benefits to adults.
  • Negative – Consuming foods high in fat over time may cause problems such as high cholesterol and hypertension.
  • Positive – The body turns to ketosis, which uses fat as a fuel rather than carbohydrates.
  • Negative – Over time, the breath may start to smell foul.
  • Positive – Effective to use over the short term.
  • Negative – The diet is limited. Many beneficial fruits and vegetables are avoided because of their starch content.
  • Negative – Deficiencies in vitamins and minerals.
If im working out so much will i have to worry about high colesterol or hypertension over a few years or a lifetime like this?

Is it true you get bad breath? i dont like the sound of that what if i have a girlfriend lol

Will i need to take supplements for missing vitamins? I dont like the idea of needing any vits to be honest.Id rather eat a healthy diet.But carbs are out because of candida unless its a very small amount.

Now i am happy to not go into ketosis and continue to burn carbs.
But if i eat any carbs for energy before a workout will the yeast start to spread again or will the exercise burn that up before the candida can flare again?

Also if i take carbs to build my glycogen levels in my muscles up again will that feed the candida before it has a chance to do its real job?

So far i have been going for runs this last two weeks and found porridge gives me great energy for the run and i found eating eggs and bacon didnt give me as much energy.
I felt a little drained near the start of my run.Im guessing i was relying on carbs and hadnt gotten any after my last workout to rebuild the energy levels.
But also when i was eating porridge i could feel the candida flaring up slightly i think.Hard to say as i stupidly ate a magnum the night before and i believe there is gluten in those as its packed in a wrapper
But this last 3 days or more i have been eating only eggs,bacon,minced beef with LOTS of salad, with probiotic yogurt and a chopped apple with a manderine for desert each day.I feel great though.

So any info relating to candida and ketosis with thin people i would love to hear.Even links to sites that will help me sove these queries.
Most of these sites seem to be written for people with candida looking to lose weight.Its like they forget us skinny folks can get it too

Last edited by Torakx; 10-01-2011 at 00:10.
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10-01-2011, 00:23   #2
EileenG
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The bad breath thing is sort of true, but it's for a short time at the beginning of a keto diet, when your body is making more ketones than it knows what to do with. Within a fairly short time, it goes away. Plenty of green veg and tooth brushing should keep you nice to be near.

It is possible for an undiagnosed diabetic to have dangerous levels of ketones. Most healthy people have so many back-ups for dealing with them that it is never an issue. If you are not diabetic, then it's not something to worry about.

A good keto diet should supply all the vitamins and minerals you need. I took part in a five year study on low carb diets, and they found I was well above RDA on all vits. Personally, I think a daily multi and a fish oil, perhaps some extra vitamin D are no harm on any diet.

A keto diet can supply all the energy you need, but as you've noticed, it seems to take longer to warm up. The up-side is you can keep going for longer.

Bodybuilders will often do a thing where they eat a very low carb diet all week, then have one high carb refeed day to replenish muscle glycogen. Probably not a good idea for you, at least not for a while until you have the candidia well beaten.

A couple of spoonfuls of coconut oil in coffee before a workout can be a good source of quick energy, and won't provoke the candidia.
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10-01-2011, 01:03   #3
Torakx
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Thanks thats reassuring.
Do you happen to have any old pdfs or links to the diet you used?
I dont know alot about what vits are in what veg.But im happy to learn if i can be sent on the right track.
Im mainly eating beef,bacon,eggs,lettuce,onion,garlic,carrots,cucumber.Thats my diet i have set out so far to stay clear of most carbs.Still eat alot of lettuce and have an apple and maderine once a day which might be too much to switch to burning fat.Im guessing the fat gets burned that i eat and is in my stomach/intestines? as i dont have any spare on my body.Im bone and muscle mostly lol
Is there any other veg i should add to that to balance my nutrients out?
I will look into finding cheap fish oils or maybe just add mackerel to my diet 2-3 days a week.wil go just as well if not better with the massive salads im eating.
Is it possible to eat too much salad?
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10-01-2011, 11:00   #4
Torakx
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For the sake of other readers interested and maybe finding out a little more myself il update this with any info relevant.

Heres a nice blog that explains it well.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/k...m-and-ketosis/

Quote:
....The metabolic system could solve its problem by a coming up with a way to reduce the glucose-dependent tissues’ need for glucose so that the protein could be spared as long as possible.
Ketones to the rescue.
The liver requires energy to convert the protein to glucose. The energy comes from fat. As the liver breaks down the fat to release its energy to power gluconeogenesis, the conversion of protein to sugar, it produces ketones as a byproduct. And what a byproduct they are. Ketones are basically water soluble (meaning they dissolve in blood) fats that are a source of energy for many tissues including the muscles, brain and heart. In fact, ketones act as a stand in for sugar in the brain. Although ketones can’t totally replace all the sugar required by the brain, they can replace a pretty good chunk of it. By reducing the body’s need for sugar, less protein is required, allowing the muscle mass (the protein reservoir) to last a lot longer before it is depleted. And ketones are the preferred fuel for the heart, making that organ operate at about 28 percent greater efficiency.
Fat is the perfect fuel. Part of it provides energy to the liver so that the liver can convert protein to glucose. The unusable part of the fat then converts to ketones, which reduce the need for glucose and spare the muscle in the process.
If, instead of starving, you’re following a low-carb diet, it gets even better. The protein you eat is converted to glucose instead of the protein in your muscles. If you keep the carbs low enough so that the liver still has to make some sugar, then you will be in fat-burning mode while maintaining your muscle mass, the best of all worlds. How low is low enough? Well, when the ketosis process is humming along nicely and the brain and other tissues have converted to ketones for fuel, the requirement for glucose drops to about 120-130 gm per day. If you keep your carbs below that at, say, 60 grams per day, you’re liver will have to produce at least 60-70 grams of glucose to make up the deficit, so you will generate ketones that entire time.
So, on a low-carb diet you can feast and starve all at the same time. Is it any wonder it’s so effective for weight loss?
Also id like to post a comment on this blog and the answer that was posted as it applies to me right now and im not sure the solution or if to carry on.

Quote:
hello, i read somewhere that being in ‘deep’ketosis can cause some side effects including diarrhea. is this because fat is not stored in the absence of insulin, and is therefore excreted, or because of high levels of ketones in the blood. also are certain fats more likely to cause diarhea eg coconut, dairy? what i mean is can some fats (or too much fat)cause reactions like some proteins or sugars do (gluten lactose).great blog by the way.
Hi Tony–
I’ve never heard that ‘heavy’ ketosis causes diarrhea, nor can I see how it could physiologically. Ketones never make it to the digestive tract: excess ketones are gotten rid of through the breath and the urine, not the stool.
People who are on low-carb diets and have constipation can usually get rid of it by increasing the fat intake in their diets. It is normal for a small amount of fat to make it through the small intestine and into the colon. People who have conditions causing them to be unable to break down and absorb the vast majority of their dietary fat in their small intestines can end up with larger amounts of fat than normal in their colons, which does usually result in diarrhea. But, people with normally functioning GI tracts and gall bladders don’t get diarrhea with increased fat intake. Especially not with coconut oil, which has a fair amount of a type of fat that is easily and readily absorbed.
I thought because i was eating so much salad that was causing me to have the runs(not that i have to run to the toilet or anything but i am worried about dehydration and what is going on).But you can also get this effect in ketosis it seems when the body isnt absorbing from the small intestine.

For breakfast i would have 2 eggs and 3 slices of bacon with a decent salad (half a plate min)
I only eat about 250 grams of beef 15% fat every day the last few days for dinner, with a massive seperate plate of salad.

Other than that my fat and protein intake is gotten from munching on pumpkin seeds i would guess i eat about 10-14 grams of different fats, 10 grams protein from that during the course of the day.

So if i get a small urine testing kit to check for ketosis and it shows positive does that mean i have too much fat that isnt being processed and that i need to get my lower intestine sorted because of the candida i had before?

OR... is it just im eating too much salad? or something else again?
I started this diet about 3-5 days ago i think and i have this effect the last 2-3 days.Only twice since have i had a normal bowel movement, excuse the detail lol i have no shame

Last edited by Torakx; 10-01-2011 at 11:03.
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10-01-2011, 11:44   #5
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I have heard a lot of talk amongst paleo practitioners that the removal of gluten/sugar from the diet removes a gut irritant that would have previously been the main activator of your bowels. When this is removed your digestive system has to discover another (natural) mechanism for moving itself along. I think increasing your fat intake can help this process.
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10-01-2011, 21:21   #6
EileenG
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I don't have links etc, because I tend to eat whatever is in season and on sale. But as a rough guide, my breakfast is a mushroom omlette, my lunch is whatever fish is handy and some salad or veg with it, and dinner is steak or chicken and piles of veg. Snacks are nuts, cheese, coffee with cream, etc.

You can eat a lot more veg than that. Since you are not trying to lose weight, then go heavy on salads with plenty of olive oil dressing, avocado, fresh coconut, lots of almonds, walnuts, brazil nuts, sesame seeds etc.

Good low carb veg includes avocado, aubergine, asparagus, broccoli, bokchoy, brussel sprouts, beet greens, cabbage, cauliflower, cucumber, celery, celeriac, courgette, dandelion, endive, fennel, green beans, kale, leeks, lettuce, mushrooms, peppers, olives, spring onions, salad greens, rhubarb, pumpkin, mangetout, bean sprouts, radish, spinach, watercress. And lots more, but you get the idea.

In ketosis, the fat in your diet is converted to ketones and used for energy. Any unused ketones are pissed away in your urine. Showing pink or purple on ketostix just means you are in ketosis. Very dark colours usually means you are not drinking enough water, it doesn't mean you are more in ketosis than if it's pale pink.

Your bowel can take a while to adjust to a keto diet, there's more high fiber veg and less grains, so things can be a bit weird for a while, but it should settle down and you'll do poos that even Gillian McKeith would love.
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10-01-2011, 23:30   #7
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'Super poos' I believe they're called.

Be prepared for one day of feeling shitty. This is the body switching up fuel sources/withdrawal. You may feel tired, or even like you're coming down with a cold. But you wake up the next morning feeling like superman.
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11-01-2011, 00:11   #8
Torakx
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After the depressing effect of candida every time i detox i feel amazing.Had a binge over christmas visiting family and it might be the last few days has been killing off that yeast.Have been through detox many times and its a lovely feeling when it clears each time.
Like a cloud is lifted from your life and everything seems great lol
So its kind of hard for me to tell if its ketosis or just the detox effect again.
Are those ketosticks available in any pharmacy? and are they exspensive? Its probably the only way il know if its ketosis.

Even if it isnt yet im pretty sure the ketosis withdrawal symptoms will be a piece of cake for me after what ive been through.I barely notice the side effects.Just the runs is noticeable, the depression has been with me for over 10 years so im lucky in that respect, i can handle that no probs.
That isnt depression for me,just normal hehe.
The depression i know is way way worse like suicidal stuff with candida(although after many years it becomes normal and you get used to it).So im sure it will be fine during the change over and after will be like im on extacy haha(not that i know how it feels!).

Thanks for the food tips above also il keep a note of those veggies so i can at least vary my diet a little and make sure i get as many nutrients as possible.
Tomorrow im gonna make leek and onion soup to sip away on while i snack on pumpkin seeds
Have to say everyone here has been a great help for me to get myself organised and prepared for this diet.

Oh one thing should i be drinking coffee for any beneficial reasons?
I ussually just drink pint glasses of water all day long with slices of lime of lemon in them.

Last edited by Torakx; 11-01-2011 at 00:16.
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11-01-2011, 16:34   #9
EileenG
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You can buy ketostix in any chemist, but you have to ask behind the counter. You don't need a prescription. They cost about €8 for a tub of 50.

Onions are not the lowest carb vegetable. Try Brussel Sprout soup, just boil a few in chicken stock and then puree. Very smooth and creamy and tasty. Sprouts are still in season right now.

From the keto point of view, coffee is fine. You know better than us how the candida reacts to it.
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12-01-2011, 15:29   #10
The Hill Billy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torakx View Post
...With candida so im not sure how that effects the body especially over a long period regarding making insulin.So thats one question i have if anyone happens to know.

...If im working out so much will i have to worry about high colesterol or hypertension over a few years or a lifetime like this?

...Will i need to take supplements for missing vitamins?

...Also if i take carbs to build my glycogen levels in my muscles up again will that feed the candida before it has a chance to do its real job?
Hi OP - Just to make you aware that the above points in your post may be viewed as seeking medical advice which is against the site rules. Please be advised that no poster on this site is qualified to respond to those questions.

This thread can remain open as long as that is understood & no 'medical advice' is given.

Take care,

HB
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