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08-11-2010, 18:24   #1
chakattack
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Let's discuss winter training

Not sure if here or the training logs section is best but this isn't specific to me and I won't be logging anything.

I'm working on my 2011 training plan and want to make sure I have a "good winter". I want to develop strength, flexibility and general condition so it'll include weight training, core work, stretching, swimming and running.

I'm very confused as to the correct approach (if there is one) and how to achieve balance?

General goal is to have a successful season of A4 (maybe A3) road racing.

My main concern is about intensity and rest:

Joe Friel has led me to believe that my heart rate shouldn't go out of zone 2 until well after christmas yet I see people are doing intervals and hill repeat session tues and thursdays and other people are murdering themselves on the turbo watching sufferfest videos.

Should I do weight training on a rest day or combine it with a cycling/running/swimming workout and when do my legs get to recover after lifting weights?

Should I cycle 6 days a week easy or do 3 short hard spins and long easy spin? Are LSD miles on lots of short spins (commuting) equivalent to the same distance over 2 weekend club spins?

What has worked for you over the years? What has not worked? What are you confused about?

Let's talk it over.....
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08-11-2010, 19:14   #2
marcofan
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what ever you do dont do intervals at this time of year. if you see people doing them at this time of year note down there names then look for them in the results in april............you wont see them
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08-11-2010, 19:19   #3
paddymacsporran
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I call them winter warriors. Races are won in-season and to do that you need to build a solid base in the winter. You do not win races by half-wheeling on club spins in November!
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08-11-2010, 19:45   #4
niceonetom
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Can anyone explain the physiology of avoiding zones <2 in the winter? What exactly is the harm that higher BPMs inflict on the organism?
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08-11-2010, 19:47   #5
paddymacsporran
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Doesn't inflict harm, how I interpret it is building a solid base for the harder and more specific training as the season approaches.
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08-11-2010, 19:57   #6
morana
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I think its impossible to stay below zone 2 -when you climb any hill your power/HR will mostly likely creep up to the threshold level. There is no harm in a bit of intensity at this time of year! I think when people use the term intervals everybody assumes its eyeballs out. I know 1 emminent (international) coach who advises doing 10secs efforts for max strength.

The only problem I encountered when I went hard early (like last year) that my motivation took a nose dive after the snow.......

What has worked?
Breaking a collarbone eating less because I couldnt train and doing 20 min ints on the turbo every 2nd day with raised wheel to take pressure off CB.

What has not worked?
doing too little, not bothering to do strength work, using little ring all winter!!

What am I confused about?
Lots
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08-11-2010, 20:11   #7
niceonetom
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Right, we're only 5 posts in and the basic contentious point of wtf to do between October and February is out:

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcofan View Post
what ever you do dont do intervals at this time of year. if you see people doing them at this time of year note down there names then look for them in the results in april............you wont see them
Quote:
Originally Posted by paddymacsporran View Post
Doesn't inflict harm, how I interpret it is building a solid base for the harder and more specific training as the season approaches.
What's a n00b to do? Some older (or at least more experienced) riders get disproportionately upset at the mention of intervals. Their reaction is like they've heard a rider's pans for a little midweek intensity but instead of "spinning class" they've heard "mainlining heroine". Their reaction is certainly strong enough to imply that they don't see intensity as pointless, they see it as really really dangerous.

Then others come along and say, nah, It's not dangerous, but it is pointless. Base, base, base.

Then some smartarse comes along expounding the virtues of intensity all year round, or at least 11 months of the year if you really need a break. Tabata. Spinning. No being with a soul can really do LSD on a turbo. Sure shouldn't we all be racing 'cross anyway. Belgians don't do LSD, they do LFD, right?

Joe Friel has cast a long shadow for a long time... but is he right? Add to his own dogma the many misunderstood versions espoused by people who half-read the book 10 years ago and the people who think that training tips get better with age (cow's blood ftw) and it's a goddam mess. Between the bunk and the debunking and the debunked debunking, every bit of advice I can find has someone else saying it's dead wrong.

Basically, what's the science of LSD? What does it actually do?
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08-11-2010, 20:21   #8
morana
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lovin it!!!

I remmeber I was ridiculed because I had a 55 12 . Asking the ridiculer(?) what he had on he indicated a 53 11 ....... I laughed...

I think a lot of people have their own beliefs and until you find what works for you you wont deviate from these beliefs...

Ah Tabata!!! but thats not hard is it???
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08-11-2010, 20:39   #9
Lumen
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I think a way forward may be to think about what you can't do during the racing season, and do lots of that.

For instance, if you can't do loads of LSD and cross training in the summer because you need to focus on regaining freshness between races, do LSD and cross training during the winter.

There is no right answer because everyone is different.

There is some merit in being the fastest in your category in March, because that will win you races. Better to be fast once a year than average all season. But that's only one plan.
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08-11-2010, 20:47   #10
morana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumen View Post
There is some merit in being the fastest in your category in March, because that will win you races. Better to be fast once a year than average all season. But that's only one plan.
Spot on! I know lads who would give their right speedplay to win a hamper race....and I dont see a whole lot wrong with that tbh!!
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08-11-2010, 20:53   #11
spokeydokey
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I've a feeling this thread could be fun

I didn't know who Joe Friel was until I googled him.
I suspected that he lived somewhere with a moderate winter (Scottsdale, Arizona) . Zone 2! easy for him to say.
I wouldn't get to the end of my driveway some winter mornings here without hitting zone 3.
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08-11-2010, 21:15   #12
levitronix
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I dont believe in LSD training if you have a really good base already endurance doesnt leave your legs .. A bit differnet if your a runner you ll keep away injuries with it but if you have a few years on the bike why slow down to a crawl ? .. Winter you just dont have the same time for training so intervals on the turbo will have benifit , you see on the club spins everyone is the small ring but still holding steady speeds
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09-11-2010, 09:08   #13
paddymacsporran
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I was speaking to a coach last night, and he asked me to plan my objectives and aims for 2011. We are meeting up for a spin, he will assess where I am and will then work back from there and develop a programme to get me where I want to be. This will involve diet, gym work, weights, running, turbo sessions and steady spins on the bike. To me that is training - Either making your own plan or following a programme with an objective and a timescale.

No need for a coach if you can plan it out yourself. However there are plenty of guys who just ride to improve fitness and don't race, it's a large majority of road cyclists. Nothing wrong in that, I was one for years, I thought I was training but didn't know how to train properly or what I was 'training' for. No clear aims.

Training is more involved and specific than half wheeling yer mate on a Sunday spin and thinking you look good in lycra.....
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09-11-2010, 09:41   #14
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I'm feeling way out of my depth already.


Then to be fair, my first and probably only attainable goal for next year is "to start one race" I'll be relying on reading a lot of what people are doing, and learning from what happens when I don't do that.
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09-11-2010, 11:53   #15
chakattack
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Good responses - thanks.

I'm glad i'm not the only one who is confused.

Tom - it sounds like you had a good season last year and are in favour of some higher intensity stuff at this time of year. Is this what worked for you last winter?

I didn't race a full season last year so I don't think I need much of a mental/physical break to avoid burnout and I already have a pretty good base but I do fear losing any bit of edge I might have by spending 2-3 months plodding along and doing some light cross training.

My intuition tells me to get strong with weights and have 1-2 hard sessions/week on the bike (maybe hill repeats for force and cruise intervals for leg speed) and prioritise rest to stay fresh.

But Friel's 10 commandments state that I shouldn't deviate from the plan......still confused......

How do the A1/A+ guys train at this of year?
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