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25-07-2010, 12:23   #1
RogerThis
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Internet Card Sharing is Illegal but...

Is it illegal to card share within a LAN?

I have a FreeSat from Sky card for Channel 4 HD and the extra Five channels. I was thinking of using this card to card share between two linux boxes within my house. Would I be breaking the law by doing so?

It seems like a grey area to me!
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25-07-2010, 12:27   #2
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I think so, yes. You are deliberately circumventing the protection on the card. Doing it on your LAN or across the web is no different - even if you don't pay a monthly sub for the card.

Expect this thread to be locked...
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25-07-2010, 12:45   #3
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It's not a Grey Area.

It's theft of service under Irish law. The copyright owners can sue also, or Sky on their behalf.

But if you obtain access to any service (Gas, Electric, Cable TV, phone, Satellite Pay TV) by any means not authorised by the supplier, it's Theft.

It's not even a FTV card any more. But a Sky "Freesat from Sky" pay TV card that simply has once off payment and some "puppy dog" content and ability to have monthly subscription. The card is also sky/NDS property

Even providing information as to how to steal a service is a criminal act in Irish Law.

Nothing Grey about it!

An original BBC solas (real FTV) card may have been a grey area. Current "Freesat from Sky" cards are once off payment pay TV cards, not FTV cards.
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25-07-2010, 12:46   #4
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So it a bit like coping DVD's, even though you have paid for it, you are not entitled it copy it. It's breaking copyright protection.

Still seems like a grey area to me.
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25-07-2010, 12:50   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watty View Post
It's not a Grey Area.

It's theft of service under Irish law. The copyright owners can sue also, or Sky on their behalf.

But if you obtain access to any service (Gas, Electric, Cable TV, phone, Satellite Pay TV) by any means not authorised by the supplier, it's Theft.

It's not even a FTV card any more. But a Sky "Freesat from Sky" pay TV card that simply has once off payment and some "puppy dog" content and ability to have monthly subscription. The card is also sky/NDS property

Even providing information as to how to steal a service is a criminal act in Irish Law.

Nothing Grey about it!

An original BBC solas (real FTV) card may have been a grey area. Current "Freesat from Sky" cards are once off payment pay TV cards, not FTV cards.
Isn't it piracy not theft?
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25-07-2010, 12:59   #6
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Pirates are thieves! YARHAR
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25-07-2010, 13:06   #7
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Isn't it piracy to record TV onto DVD's?

Isn't it piracy to use a TV distributor to other TV's?
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25-07-2010, 13:35   #8
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I can't seem to find much info on the net about Irish copyright laws. But I did find that St Patrick was captured but Irish Pirates here and the first case of copyright law in the world came in Ireland here

Isn't wikipedia great!
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25-07-2010, 13:47   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerThis View Post
So it a bit like coping DVD's, even though you have paid for it, you are not entitled it copy it. It's breaking copyright protection.

Still seems like a grey area to me.
No, it's not primarily copyright, though you can be sued for that too.

It's primarily theft of service. Not about "copying".

Same as if you had no card.
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25-07-2010, 13:51   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerThis View Post
Isn't it piracy to record TV onto DVD's?
That is a grey area if it's for personal use. If you do it for someone else it's copyright violation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerThis View Post
Isn't it piracy to use a TV distributor to other TV's?
No. As it's the same channel if a Sky box and they explicitly allow it, as long as it's your own house.

non-Pay TV can be distributed to any number of TVs in your own house, but for a whole village that would be a public Cable TV and you then need to pay royalty to the content providers.


Neither of these examples are related to stealing a PayTV service. It's not "card sharing", it stealing a service as sky charge extra for extra receivers' cards. The "card sharing" HW& SW gives additional receivers access to a service. Legally it's no different to encrypted cable or Satellite reception hacking without so called "card sharing".

Last edited by watty; 25-07-2010 at 14:00.
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25-07-2010, 13:58   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerThis View Post
So it a bit like coping DVD's, even though you have paid for it, you are not entitled it copy it. It's breaking copyright protection.

Still seems like a grey area to me.
Not exactly the same thing, one might seen a legitimate need for a back up copy of the DVD, so that the original can stored in a safe place to prevent damage, and the copy can be used, but in this case, you are only using one version/copy of the DVD.

The main purpose of card sharing is to allow for multiple copies of the card to be used, so it's not really the same thing and not gray in any way.
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25-07-2010, 14:00   #12
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No, it's not primarily copyright, though you can be sued for that too.

It's primarily theft of service. Not about "copying".

Same as if you had no card.
It is breaking the encryption key, which is the same as DVD copying.
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25-07-2010, 14:18   #13
watty
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Stealing Service: DPP Criminal Conviction, up to €5,000 fine and up to 6 months jail
Violation of Copyright: Sky has to sue you. Civil suit. No limit to liability.

You are doing both if you use "Card Sharing".
http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-m...-70k-worth-of/
Quote:
In October [2007], Sky secured judgment against Liam O'Brien and Satellite and TV Services Ltd, trading as Aertec with an address in Dublin, for the unauthorised supply of Sky's channels and satellite reception equipment to a number of hotels throughout the country.

The case, before Judge Kelly in the High Court, was ruled following settlement between the parties, granting permanent injunctions restraining further infringement of Sky broadcasts and restraining the supply of equipment to facilitate other infringing of Sky's copyright.

In addition, €40,000 was paid by the defendants to Sky in damages for copyright infringement.
There is nothing "grey" about it. I don't understand why you want to argue it's "only" copyright violation. That's a civil matter with no limitation of liability.

Stealing a service *IS* on the Irish Statute book as a criminal offence. With specified tarriff. Channels decrypted by "Free sat from Sky" card are as much a service in Irish law as Cable TV, phone, Electricty or Gas.

Sky can even get a court order to get your IP and time/date of post and then a court order from the ISP to get your identity (for civil case of Copyright). Or the Garda could for a criminal case of Theft of Service.

Or a future/current Employer could realise these posts are you.

So your insistence to keep digging is idiotic.
You asked
Quote:
Is it illegal to card share within a LAN?
The simple answer is yes, it's theft of service, criminal.

Copyright is a separate issue and is Civil Law, not Criminal law, so "illegal" in the normal sense doesn't apply. The injured party has to sue. It's not up to the Garda.
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25-07-2010, 14:22   #14
RogerThis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watty View Post
That is a grey area if it's for personal use. If you do it for someone else it's copyright violation.


No. As it's the same channel if a Sky box and they explicitly allow it, as long as it's your own house.

non-Pay TV can be distributed to any number of TVs in your own house, but for a whole village that would be a public Cable TV and you then need to pay royalty to the content providers.


Neither of these examples are related to stealing a PayTV service. It's not "card sharing", it stealing a service as sky charge extra for extra receivers' cards. The "card sharing" HW& SW gives additional receivers access to a service. Legally it's no different to encrypted cable or Satellite reception hacking without so called "card sharing".
Are you going by Sky rules are Irish law?

Irish law won't let you copy TV to DVD.

I have been reading the Term and Condition that came with my card. In the Viewing card terms, it stated "(c) Only you may use the Viewing Card which we send you. You can only use the Viewing Card at your address which you have given to your service provider ("Address") and with the Box in which it is first authorised to receive encrypted digital satellite services. You must only use it for private viewing purposes. You must not use it for any commercial or business purposes or in any premises other than your Address unless you have an agreement with your service provider(s) that allows otherwise."

So I would not be breaking Sky rules by card sharing.

http://www1.sky.com/skyviewinghelp/terms.html
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25-07-2010, 15:01   #15
watty
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You ring and tell them and see how quick they turn off your card.
You will be breaking Irish law and your Agreement with Sky.

Quote:
You can only use the Viewing Card at your address which you have given to your service provider ("Address") and with the Box in which it is first authorised to receive encrypted digital satellite services.
Singular.
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