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29-11-2009, 00:06   #16
HUBERTUS
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A .220 Swift fires a bullet the same diameter as the .22/250 ie. .224 inches.
In 1972 at the time of your legislation Norma ammo for the Swift was 50gr in bullet weight but the muzzle energy was 1877 foot/pounds.
It had surplus energy but lacked the weight.
At that time Remington .22/250 ammo was advertised as having 1770 ft/lbs with the 55gr bullet.
Norma advertised theirs as 55gr SPS bullet at 1637 ft/lbs.

In 1982 the Remington 55gr ammo was listed as having 1699 ft/lbs.
Norma reduced their bullet weight for the .22/250 to 53gr.

The whole thing was a mess !

Many knowlegeable people at that time turned to the 5.6X57 RWS cartridge which had been developed in Germany for shooting Roe and Chamois.
It fired a 74gr bullet known as the `kegelspitz`with a muzzle energy of 1910 foot/pounds.

I had a 5.6X61 Vom Hofe Super Express on my Irish licence for a few years, this was the ultimate at that time with a 77gr bullet and 2350 foot/pounds of energy.

Currently Remington advertise their .243 ammo as having slightly less than 2000 ft/lbs of energy, only slightly more powerful than the 5.6X57 RWS !
So much for progress as many on these forums think the .243 is the ultimate.
Believe me it is not, I have two .243 rifles [ shortly one only ] yet I always pick up the .270 when I go out to shoot a Deer.

HWH.
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29-11-2009, 11:05   #17
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There's no minimum specified chambering in the Wildlife Act. SI 239 of 1977 details the requirements for a firearm to be used for hunting deer. They are that it should be of at least .22 calibre, with a muzzle energy of at least 1700 foot pounds. Ammunition must be at least 55 grains. Here is the source. The .220 Swift will make this threshold and so is legal for use on deer. Please stop saying the .22-250 is the minimum calibre by law, because there's no actual law to support you, as there are several cartridges in the same region, equivalent to the job, and comparable to the .22-250. I've filled out the NPWS form as well, and that little section is badly put. It should read .22-250 "or equivalent", as that is what the law states.
the differance between that section badly put and what it should read is a summons if you are stopped with on the deer and a 220. swift rifle on the application from it states note; the minimum calibre weapon for hunting deer is a rifle of 22/250 calibre which uses bullets weighing not less than 55 grains ; there is no add ons or mention of other calibre under it and no matter what is said the swift is still .220
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29-11-2009, 13:13   #18
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the differance between that section badly put and what it should read is a summons if you are stopped with on the deer and a 220. swift rifle on the application from it states note; the minimum calibre weapon for hunting deer is a rifle of 22/250 calibre which uses bullets weighing not less than 55 grains ; there is no add ons or mention of other calibre under it and no matter what is said the swift is still .220
The form isn't the law steyrman, the wildlife act is. .22-250 is a .22 calibre as well. Here's the full comparison:

 .22-250.220 Swift
Bullet diameter.224 in.224 in
Neck diameter.254 in.260 in
Shoulder diameter.414 in.402 in
Base diameter.469 in.445 in
Rim diameter.473 in.473 in
Case length1.912 in2.205 in

Bullet weightVelocityEnergyVelocityEnergy
 .22-250 .220 Swift 
40 gr4,224 ft/s1,585 ft·lbf4,213 ft/s1,577 ft·lbf
50 gr3,945 ft/s1,728 ft·lbf3,947 ft/s1,730 ft·lbf
55 gr3,786 ft/s1,751 ft·lbf3,839 ft/s1,800 ft·lbf
60 gr3,580 ft/s1,708 ft·lbf3,647 ft/s1,772 ft·lbf

The swift in 55 grain is longer, faster and has more energy than the .22-250 and exceeds the requirements under the wildlife act. It's perfectly legal to use, but as I said in an earlier post, it's better to use the .243 or greater as there's no reason to use a .22 centre fire calibre.

Would you actually read the link it wasn't me posted?
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29-11-2009, 13:55   #19
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the differance between that section badly put and what it should read is a summons if you are stopped with on the deer and a 220. swift rifle on the application from it states note; the minimum calibre weapon for hunting deer is a rifle of 22/250 calibre which uses bullets weighing not less than 55 grains ; there is no add ons or mention of other calibre under it and no matter what is said the swift is still .220
Anyone who issues a summons in that situation is going to take one in the hole from the world's most useless legal professional in court, since the law is absolutely, incontrovertibly, explicitly clear that a .220 Swift will make the grade and is perfectly legal to use provided you have a deer hunting licence. Might also be worth noting that where it says "minimum", the .220 Swift exceeds the .22-250 by a small margin, so it qualifies there too.
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29-11-2009, 14:06   #20
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Hi all just wondering whats the minimum caliber for deer hunting in ireland? can you shoot deer in ireland with .223 or .220 swift? thanks again
Foxshot
I always thought a 223 (5.56) was legal for deer, i know people who had them for years for deer hunting.

Would the super give me a licence for this

Last edited by deerhunter1; 17-06-2010 at 19:40.
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29-11-2009, 14:32   #21
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well lads if you would like to ring npws in the morning and ask them if its ok to use the 220 swift or anything else under what is stated on the form your more than welcome i would like to see the the hunting lic the was granted for the swift i know its up to the job but i is not a deer hunting round here the start at 22/250 and up we dont make the laws just work with them it good that people still like the swift i have stated i owned one for 7 years burnt a barrel out and rebarreled it its still shooting as good as new
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29-11-2009, 14:36   #22
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Would you please, for sanity's sake, read the *ACTUAL LAW* I've linked to above, which gives the requirements. The simple fact is that the .220 Swift meets those requirements. It *IS* a deer-hunting calibre in Irish law. You state we don't make the laws, merely work with them, and you're right, so why don't you read the one above?
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29-11-2009, 14:36   #23
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well lads if you would like to ring npws in the morning and ask them if its ok to use the 220 swift or anything else under what is stated on the form your more than welcome i would like to see the the hunting lic the was granted for the swift i know its up to the job but i is not a deer hunting round here the start at 22/250 and up we dont make the laws just work with them it good that people still like the swift i have stated i owned one for 7 years burnt a barrel out and rebarreled it its still shooting as good as new
Yep I would like to see it as well, the minimum is 22/250 the 220 was never on the list
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29-11-2009, 14:37   #24
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Yep I would like to see it as well, the minimum is 22/250 the 220 was never on the list
There is no "list". There are a set of requirements, which I've linked to above. The .220 Swift meets them. In Irish law, it's a deer-hunting calibre.
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29-11-2009, 15:47   #25
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well lads if you would like to ring npws in the morning and ask them if its ok to use the 220 swift or anything else under what is stated on the form your more than welcome
The .220 swift is over the .22-250, not under it. It's a bigger case, larger load, same size bullet, what's smaller about it?

Quote:
i would like to see the the hunting lic the was granted for the swift i know its up to the job but i is not a deer hunting round here the start at 22/250 and up we dont make the laws just work with them it good that people still like the swift i have stated i owned one for 7 years burnt a barrel out and rebarreled it its still shooting as good as new
There are quite a few out there. In fact if you do a bit of a search on this forum you'll probably find a few people who have got them for deer.

And nobody's advising anyone to get a .22 of any flavour for deer, just pointing out the actual law and not the made up stuff.
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29-11-2009, 15:53   #26
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I always thought a 223 (5.56) was legal for deer, i know people who had them for years for deer hunting.
Nope, doesn't even come close.

WeightVelocityEnergy
55 gr3,240 ft/s1,282 ft·lbf
60 gr3,160 ft/s1,330 ft·lbf
69 gr2,950 ft/s1,333 ft·lbf
77 gr2,750 ft/s1,293 ft·lbf
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29-11-2009, 15:54   #27
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There is no "list". There are a set of requirements, which I've linked to above. The .220 Swift meets them. In Irish law, it's a deer-hunting calibre.
on your deer lic it states min cal 22/250 not any less so i take it its 22/250 and above i have read the law that you stated and agree with you but its on paper it dont mention any lower the above you can quota it to me all day try your local ranger office and see what you come back with i was refused a deer hunting lic on the swift 15 year ago my paper work was sent back to me because i put down 220. swift with 55 grain bullet weight most of the factory rounds are 40 grn and 50 not to many stock 55 or 60 grain as the would tumble and end up keyhole on paper this happened with the 60 grn more as the rate of twist did not suit as i have stated i would like to see the deer hunt lic that was granted on the 220 swift the problem is what we have and want are 2 different things i know in uk the allow stalkers to use 222,223, on roe and munjac but thats there thing im not worried what the have my main point is i was refused a deer lic with the swift has the law changed on it if it has i hold my hands up but if not were back to normal
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29-11-2009, 16:08   #28
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The law has been there since 1977. It has not changed. The issue is that if the NPWS refused you for the .220 Swift, it doesn't mean it's not deer-legal, just that in that instance they decided not to grant a licence for it. They're under no obligation to do so as far as I know. They could hypothetically refuse a .243 if the issuing officer deemed it marginal or insufficient for the deer in the area you're planning to shoot. In any case, as RRPC highlights, the .220 Swift is a more powerful calibre than the .22-250. There's not much in the difference, but it's there.
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29-11-2009, 16:10   #29
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on your deer lic it states min cal 22/250 not any less so i take it its 22/250 and above i have read the law that you stated and agree with you but its on paper it dont mention any lower the above you can quota it to me all day try your local ranger office and see what you come back with i was refused a deer hunting lic on the swift 15 year ago my paper work was sent back to me because i put down 220. swift with 55 grain bullet weight most of the factory rounds are 40 grn and 50 not to many stock 55 or 60 grain as the would tumble and end up keyhole on paper this happened with the 60 grn more as the rate of twist did not suit as i have stated i would like to see the deer hunt lic that was granted on the 220 swift the problem is what we have and want are 2 different things i know in uk the allow stalkers to use 222,223, on roe and munjac but thats there thing im not worried what the have my main point is i was refused a deer lic with the swift has the law changed on it if it has i hold my hands up but if not were back to normal
but rrpc is correct , if you had a deer hunting licence and several rifles including a .220 swift and decided one morning to use it to take a deer and did so , were stopped by a ranger and charged with using an unsuitable rifle and taken to court , you'd win your case because the swift ballistics are demonstrably in excess of the minimum required by the law, all's it takes are a weighing scales and a chronograph , it would be throw out of court .
that having been said ,this is ireland and the law is sometimes a hindrance to those who inforce it , e.g. a pistol ban for thirty odd years that had no basis in actual law.
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29-11-2009, 16:13   #30
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You were probably refused the swift because there were larger calibres available then. The point is that the 22-250 is the minimum because as the chart above shows, it is a lower powered calibre than the swift (with a 55grain bullet).
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