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25-07-2009, 20:51   #46
watty
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Stupid and pointless maybe when it can't compete on number of channels, most of the basic channels on PayDTT are free free free on Satellite (If you can do an Aerial you can likely do a Dish) and just about anyone that wants PayTV got it 10 years ago or more.
Oh and transmission costs for a new channel are higher on DTT. Assuming you actually have to pay for carriage on Satellite or Cable (RTE don't).
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25-07-2009, 21:05   #47
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RTE were commissioned to cable the Ballymun flats in (I think) 1968 or so. Thus RTE Relays was born. Two other large operators (Marlin and Phoenix) subsequently covered sections of Dublin at the time.
Sillogue Gardens in Ballymun was cabled before all the flats were built, pre 1966 I think about 1963. I don't think it was called RTE relays at the time I think it was Marlin but I am open to correction. I'll see what I can find out.

Marlin cabled a few areas in Dublin to my knowledge but there was a limit of 300 houses per communal arial at the time. Most people though this was a marketing con to get people to sign up quickly as there were no aerials to be seen anywhere. (Ballymun excepted)
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25-07-2009, 23:24   #48
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Sillogue Gardens in Ballymun was cabled before all the flats were built, pre 1966 I think about 1963. I don't think it was called RTE relays at the time I think it was Marlin but I am open to correction. I'll see what I can find out.

Marlin cabled a few areas in Dublin to my knowledge but there was a limit of 300 houses per communal arial at the time. Most people though this was a marketing con to get people to sign up quickly as there were no aerials to be seen anywhere. (Ballymun excepted)
Sheesh! '63 Even Cable in the US was only getting on its feet then.
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25-07-2009, 23:25   #49
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Stupid and pointless maybe when it can't compete on number of channels, most of the basic channels on PayDTT are free free free on Satellite (If you can do an Aerial you can likely do a Dish) and just about anyone that wants PayTV got it 10 years ago or more.
Oh and transmission costs for a new channel are higher on DTT. Assuming you actually have to pay for carriage on Satellite or Cable (RTE don't).
In a nutshell.
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26-07-2009, 09:57   #50
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First cable systems in the US were in 1948

In the 1980's (or most of the period anyway -not sure when it changed) it was illegal for private individuals to own satellite dishes. Of course this (ridiculous and kinda USSR reminicent) rule was flouted (although not particularly widely because such things were expensive back then) with little/no attempt at enforcment by the Dept (Not suprising given that pirate radio was more of a priority and they were almost powerless against that). Eventually the Dept allowed cable operators to carry satellite channels (initially on a temporary experimental basis and restricted to two channels at any one time) but private dishes remained technically illegal for another few years (although there were proposals to issue licences to people outside of existing or proposed cabled areas). Looking back now at the way things were done in those days much of it is laughable and barely believable.

RE: The alleged monopoly status of cable/MMDS operators this is less of an issue nowadays with satellite (Freesat/$ky/Foreign) deflectors (albeit only in some areas and soon to be restricted to 12 GHz) IPTV, DTT (some of these years) etc etc in any case allowing multiple MMDS operators would hardly be consistent with efficent use of the radio spectrum and multiple cable operators (particularly if cabling wasnt underground) isint really practical.

On the other hand the Dept of Comms in most parts of the country tended to award cable and MMDS licences to the same company. Cork Multichannel first started lobbying for MMDS licencing in 1985

The P&T monopoly on (non-RADAR) microwave use was more an issue of licencing policy than any particular piece of legislation. Bizzare though that even other state owned bodies (like RTE) werent allowed their own microwave links but had to lease them off the P&T. Given that Ireland was a reletively geographically isolated (only one close neighbour), economically underdeveloped country with low population density, little in the way of a military and a hideously backward telecommunications system (particularly in the P&T days) the microwave bands must have been virtually empty (Watty: was there much in the way of amateur radio/radio experimenter activity on these frequencies ???)
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26-07-2009, 13:06   #51
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Given that Ireland was a reletively geographically isolated (only one close neighbour), economically underdeveloped country with low population density, little in the way of a military and a hideously backward telecommunications system (particularly in the P&T days) the microwave bands must have been virtually empty
Indeed. As was proven later, one hop to go from Waterford to Cork, and a company forced to lay 60 miles of underground cable - for what, precisely? It was nuts by any standard.
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26-07-2009, 18:20   #52
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First cable systems in Europe was in 1930s. Many countries adoped 440 lines. Hamburg and Berlin Cable TV ran for some while after the TV masts bombed. Unlike UK, Germany didn't stop TV in 1939.
Eventually the Berlin studios taken over for Film Production in maybe 1943?

The Germans also had HD cable for V2 rocket testing ranges (more like CCTV really).

Evesham in UK had Cable with Off Air RTE on it in early 1960s.
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26-07-2009, 19:46   #53
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RE: Ballymun surely communal aerials on the roofs of the towers would have brought in all the channels without the need to be part of a larger cable network (albeit still necessary for the other houses in the area) ?

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Germany didn't stop TV in 1939.
They actually did but changed their minds after a few weeks. Oh and it was 441 lines. Several countries used variants of this standard (positive and negative video and different field rates)
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a company forced to lay 60 miles of underground cable.
Dont think it was actually underground (although sections of it may have been) just ran across fields/along the side of the road (Must have been breaking down constantly ?)

Last edited by Mike 1972; 26-07-2009 at 19:53.
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26-07-2009, 19:55   #54
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Dont think it was actually underground (although sections of it may have been) just ran across fields/along the side of the road (Must have been breaking down constantly ?)
The majority of it was actually. I drove it when it was being laid. Because of the size of the cable it was direct burial. There was a little box every so often which indicated that it was buried below. Although the section near Midleton is another issue.
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26-07-2009, 21:26   #55
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I guess I stand corrected

What effect did sixty miles of coax have on the
a) quality
b) reliability
of the signal though ?

Bet it used to get dug up a lot ?
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27-07-2009, 12:23   #56
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I guess I stand corrected

What effect did sixty miles of coax have on the
a) quality
b) reliability
of the signal though ?

Bet it used to get dug up a lot ?
No worries Mike. I've dropped a few clangers here as well.

I'd imagine it did. Lads with diggers....you can only see it. Quality-wise I suppose there was some deterioration, given the distance, but it was only transporting the four UK channels.

Here in Waterford there was some fasinating stuff in the 70s. Two 250 foot masts collapsed. A chap I know has a polaroid of one of them. I must ask him for a loan.
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27-07-2009, 16:43   #57
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BSB (British Satellite Broadcasting) started around 1989, but never really got off the ground. The banks forced a 'merger' with Sky in 1991/1992, thus creating British Sky Broadcasting. BSB had, at the time, the rights to the FA Cup, and were broadcasting on a standard which delivered very clean pictures (I think it was D-Mac - Watty?).
British Satellite Broadcasting launched in March 1990 (according to wikipedia)

I remember reading at the time in the then Cork Examiner that their channels were introduced on Cork Multi Channel - but it was shortlived - maybe a week or so later the BSB channels were pulled due to I think was a copyright issue - never to return - AFAIK it was the only time the original BSB was carried on cable in this country during its short life before it merged with Sky, it was never on Cablelink etc.

Last edited by Antenna; 27-07-2009 at 16:46.
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27-07-2009, 18:40   #58
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Since several posters have mentioned the ill fated BSB someone should mention the even more ill fated Esat and Atlantic Satellites consortia which applied for the Irish DSB licence (the latter being the succesful applicant) but which never made it on air.

Thing is how did the Government manage to award a broadcasting licence to a private concern when RTE supposedly enjoyed a legal monopoly on broadcasting within the state ?

Also worth a mention are the unlicenced cable systems (not to be confused with deflectors) which operate in a few towns.

Last edited by Mike 1972; 27-07-2009 at 18:43.
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27-07-2009, 18:59   #59
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Thing is how did the Government manage to award a broadcasting licence to a private concern when RTE supposedly enjoyed a legal monopoly on broadcasting within the state ?
The monopoly must only have applied to terrestrial only, and not cable and satellite?

For instance the then Cork Multichannel had advertising supported local programmes on its cable network in the 1980s - years prior to the existance of the IRTC, now BCI.

http://historical-debates.oireachtas...603040051.html
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27-07-2009, 19:06   #60
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Yes wasnt there a station set up for the "Cork 800" celebrations along with "Ballyfermot community television" in Dublin and "Province Five" in Navan ?
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