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25-03-2009, 17:49   #196
gsxr1
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Originally Posted by niceirishfella View Post
I switched to anthracite after see'ing the post above.
Burns fine tho' I think the heat output ain't as good as coal.
I have to agree with your there. I have used it also and although its supposed to be the best for heat, I found that its far from it in practice.


I just use poish coal slack anf logs.

so what if its messy on your flu. It will be getting swept once a year anyways.
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25-03-2009, 18:59   #197
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I have to agree with your there. I have used it also and although its supposed to be the best for heat, I found that its far from it in practice.


I just use poish coal slack anf logs.

so what if its messy on your flu. It will be getting swept once a year anyways.
+1, still with the lower heat output, I don't need to strip off and sit in my jocks!

Has anyone tried those new biomass heat logs?
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27-03-2009, 13:56   #198
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Originally Posted by musicmonky View Post
after reading the posts here. which are very interesting. some people say you might not need the chimney lined. but it looks like you do.

http://csai.ie/
Any retailer that advises you that you do not need to reline your chimney for a multi-fuel/wood burning stove or inset stove has absolutely no idea of chimney physics ie.,
Hi,

I think many who clicked on the above link may have missed this part

"The plumber -with over 20 years experience had used the wrong grade liner.

The 304 grade liner which should only be used for oil/gas melted due to the intense heat of the solid fuel appliance, this then ignited the creosote deposits which moved up and over the unfinished midfeather wall which then transferred to the adjoining property .

This picture is an example of what can happen when a tradesman (?) without any formal training or qualifications in the safe installation of multi-fuel/wood burning appliances can do, not only to you and your family, but also your unsuspecting neighbors' as well.

The lady sleeping next door, awoke with her bedroom floor on fire, luckily she managed to get out. "


I have noticed that many of the installations featured on this thread use a flexi liner, Please for own safety don't buy the cheapest liner you are offered over the counter, there is a big difference in price for the multi fuel product.
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27-03-2009, 14:33   #199
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I was careful to research the flexi liner I purchased. It is double skinned and the inner skin is titanium, not stainless steel like the outer one.

Another useful feature I found with the flex liner was that I was able to get a nice 90 degree curved bend on the bottom section so it fitted straight on to the back of the stove without needing any other fittings. Painted black to match the stove, it looks brilliant.

I also made a blocking plate out of a spare slate, with a hole in it for the liner, to seal off the bottom of the chimney, then I filled the gap between the liner and the chimney with vermiculite, which is a great insulator and serves to preserve the heat of the flue gasses so minimising condensation of creosote and other deposits.

The natural draw the installation generates is prodigous, even with no breeze.
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27-03-2009, 17:45   #200
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Another useful feature I found with the flex liner was that I was able to get a nice 90 degree curved bend on the bottom section so it fitted straight on to the back of the stove without needing any other fittings. Painted black to match the stove, it looks brilliant.
90 degree curved bend? How do you sweep it?
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27-03-2009, 18:39   #201
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The anthracite debate?

Just to remember what the difference was I sought out a bag of anthracite this week instead of Polish Coal. Not sure when they last sold any as the guy at the local Galmbia disappeared to the back of the warehouse for a few minutes before reappearing with a bag, the Polish Coal and Doubles being by the entrance.

To be honest I normally burn wood but with the down turn in the building trade (and everywhere else) my usual supply has dried up and 4 months worth of stocked up timber was getting low so as I have a cooker and a wood (only) stove I decided to get some coal last month and have burnt about 6-7 bags of Polish coal in the cooker to save the wood for the woodburner. Only this week I changed over to anthracite.

So as the cooker has a temperature gauge on the oven I can give a rough and ready comparision of Wood, Polish Coal and Anthracite.

Dry wood (I burn very dry builders off cuts of pine) quickly takes the temp up to 250-275 and when well feed will stay up at 275 degrees centigrade with no problem. Note it does take a good bit of feeding (two decent barrow loads for a day + night) and will not stay in overnight on wood even if shut down completely. Cleaning once a week is all that is needed, remember this is a cooker and the flue gases go around the oven. I also clean the Chimney each week as 3 weeks on wood has the chimney almost blocked with tar, its not a great chimney but works OK if you treat it right.

Polish Coal is a lot slower to get going and takes the oven temp up to 250 and needs a bit of riddling to keep it there, if shut down the stove will just about stay in overnight. However that isn't always helpful as the stove needs cleaning each day. I defo need to clean the chimney evey week (5 min job) Bag lasts about 5 days (less if cold). Another problem with the Polish Coal is that whenever you top up you need to leave the draught fully open wasting heat as all the fithy gases and smoke burn off before you can close the cooker down to get max heat again.

Antracite Hmmmmm slow starter and unless well poked and riddled won't go much over 200! But heres the difference you fill it with the same amount as you do with Polish Coal and the fire goes for much longer I'd say the same volume of anthracite burns over 50% longer. Also no need to waste heat when you top up as there is none of the smoke and muck you get with Polish Coal. As for cleaning after a couple of days continous burning I can't see anything around the oven that needs cleaning and a quick look in the chimney (its outside with cleaning access at the bottom) shows it doesn't need cleaning and its looks like a bag will last 5 days of continous burning which we wouldn't (couldn't) get with the Polish Coal. For cooking a couple of 4x2 off cuts get the oven well up to 275 again.

Appologies for talking about a cooker in a thread on stoves but the oven temp gauge does give an idea of the temp difference with the various fuels.

All in all I think I'll stick with anthracite for the following reasons.....

Wife likes it - less mess and dust in the house.
Lasts longer than Polish Coal.
Much less chimney cleaning.
Much less cooker cleaning (around oven).
Less messy to handle (less dust).
Cooker stays in 24hours a day with little effort.

Wood free
Polish Coal 16.75euro 40kg
Anthracite 20.70euro 40kg
but the extra 4 euro is worth it for the reasons above

btw did try the new Biosmass Fuel logs - seemed very expensive, great for a bit of extra heat but burnt very quickly and hotter than my usual bone dry construction timber off cuts.

Another note added when I edit this post. My chimney is a bit strange its just a couple of sections of 4inch stainless steel (Edit> sorry that should say 5 inch thanks for pointing that out Carlow52) on the outside of the house, it draws well enough but is not ideal, however it was very cheap and improving it would be more expense and effort than I need atm. I have a T piece at the bottom of the external section of the chimney so cleaning is easily done outside the house with little mess.

Last edited by ttm; 28-03-2009 at 16:40.
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28-03-2009, 09:53   #202
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90 degree curved bend? How do you sweep it?
flexible rods.
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28-03-2009, 10:22   #203
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flexible rods.
Thats good to hear I've seen a fair few stoves installed with liners that are very difficult if not imposible to push rods up due to a 90degree bend at the bottom. I've also seen a couple of chimney fires and even if they cause no damage the resulting mess from the fire bigrade putting them out is just not worth it.
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28-03-2009, 10:31   #204
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should you not have a soot door on a 90. ??
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28-03-2009, 10:55   #205
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If theres room, to make it simple I use a T piece and blank off the bottom to the T and use that as a soot door/sweep access instead of a right angle. I find soot doors get damaged and are never big enough to make sweeping easy and anything thats not easy tends to get left undone. With cnocbui's set up I think he kept it simple by connecting the liner directly to the stove which is something that I might also do in some circumstances on smaller heat only stoves and then slide the stove out to sweep the chimney. btw one trick in moving a stove is to slide a sheet of thin steel sheet under it and slide it on the steel sheet, not always easy to get the sheet under the stove but can be done, if the stoves on legs then use two steel sheets about a foot wide and 3-4ft long one for each side (I haven't read the whole thread so appologies if thats already been mentioned)
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28-03-2009, 11:12   #206
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cleaning with a 90 degree bend

saw one yday on a varda stove which had a removable piece on the bend that would allow rodding easily in both directions
HTH
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28-03-2009, 12:07   #207
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saw one yday on a varda stove which had a removable piece on the bend that would allow rodding easily in both directions
HTH
Cast Iron? If so they tend to be fine with nice heavy screw threads that don't get messed up. I was thinking more of the stainless steel ones with self tapping screws, don't even think they are for multifuel stoves but get used all the same.
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28-03-2009, 15:20   #208
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Another note added when I edit this post. My chimney is a bit strange its just a couple of sections of 4inch stainless steel on the outside of the house, it draws well enough but is not ideal, however it was very cheap and improving it would be more expense and effort than I need atm. I have a T piece at the bottom of the external section of the chimney so cleaning is easily done outside the house with little mess.
U happy this meets Part J, in terms of diameter?
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28-03-2009, 16:35   #209
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doh! sorry so used to talking about 4inch drains I forgot the chimney is done in 5inch stainless (will go back and edit again again). After the initial proof of concept (cost of chimney about 100euro) the plan was to do all the outside in insulated sections but due to cost never got around to it. Only downside of the way it is now is that as its a "cold" chimney it needs regular cleaning, but as I check it every week I suspect its safer than two of our neighbours who both have right angled elbows welded to the bottom of the chimney index plate and I can't see how they are ever going to clean them normal (traditional) rods just won't go around the elbow.

As for part J don't think the chimney for the woodburner (stove) would comply either, if you could get into the bottom of the chimney you could stand a dozen people in it and no way would I ever think of lining it! Its an old old cottage with no foundation that sometimes floods and keeping the chimney warm and well ventilated keeps the core of the house dry.

On the other hand in a newer house I'd probably use the correct grade of liner and infill with vermiculite.
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28-03-2009, 18:22   #210
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Thats good to hear I've seen a fair few stoves installed with liners that are very difficult if not imposible to push rods up due to a 90degree bend at the bottom. I've also seen a couple of chimney fires and even if they cause no damage the resulting mess from the fire bigrade putting them out is just not worth it.
It's not a sharp 90 deg bend, it is a constant radius curve. Liners incorporating titanium are supposed to be fully capable of withstanding a chimney fire.

Quote:
Underwriters Laboratory declared that flex systems excel standards for chimney safety and can even withstand a chimney fire and still maintain structural integrity.
Not that I would let things get to the point of being able to verify that myself

I have read that some people make it a habit to periodically run their stove to the point of initiating a controlled burn of the chimney deposits. I wonder how thay can tell when they have 'ignition'
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