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NBS [not] cancelled

  • 29-06-2008 2:17pm
    #1
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭


    Cabinet meeting on Tuesday to rubber stamp it but its gone .

    There are three 'menus ' of cutbacks on offer by the Dept of Finance , hard middle and light, the NBS is on all three menus in favour of the wood pellet scam.

    Hard includes the wood pellet scam too but it lives on if the cabinet chooses middle or light cutback options.

    The wood pellet scam is to be run down considerably after it swallowed all Ryans money this year too, mainly because he wilfully let it.

    The Green Party is simply a disgrace, I will never vote for them again for doing this , the smarmy hypocrites :(


Comments

  • #2
    mike76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭mike76


    if true that's a disgrace...sunday times today said the govt were willing to borrow for broadband...


  • #3
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Expect Ryan to lie about it and say there is a delay even though he knows its gone and fought nothing.

    Only Cowen can put it back on the agenda now but he has , rather ominously , said nothing about the NBS as in ever to my knowledge :(


  • #4
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    Not a bit surprised by this. I'd love to see it go ahead but I had a feeling from day one it would never would.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53910947&postcount=15


  • #5
    Blaster99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Blaster99


    The Green Party prioritises environmentally friendly heating systems over broadband availability, what a shocker.

    Seeing as the vast majority of their voters live in Dublin I would perhaps suggest that rural broadband is not a huge priority for the Green Party, one way or the other.

    Then there's of course the small but perhaps not unimportant detail that the NBS is a pile of cack as it has been presented, so its death is not that big a deal.


  • #6
    smellslikeshoes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    I don't think it could possibly just disappear into thin air, it will probably be delayed for a long time but after how many times he has referenced it I can't see it just not happening outright.


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  • #7
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Blaster99 wrote: »
    The Green Party prioritises environmentally friendly heating systems over broadband availability, what a shocker [1].

    Seeing as the vast majority of their voters live in Dublin I would perhaps suggest that rural broadband is not a huge priority for the Green Party, one way or the other[2].

    Then there's of course the small but perhaps not unimportant detail that the NBS is a pile of cack as it has been presented, so its death is not that big a deal[3].

    1) Teleworking saves the environment (Transport and office space/heating/electric)

    2) There are people in Dublin City with two Way Satellite, Dialup, 3G/HSDPA, Ripwave etc because they can't get broadband.

    3) Well 1/4 to 1/3 of people that can't get Broadband would have got something better than now. Though there was not enough emphasis on improved infrastructure. 128k up was too slow.


  • #8
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    Have you got a source we can link to Sponge Bob?


  • #9
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Moonbeam wrote: »
    Have you got a source we can link to Sponge Bob?

    Sorry , no.

    Unless you read it into some not so oblique comments by Ryan in todays Indo where he emphasised the Energy part of his brief above all.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ministers-braced-for-83641bn-in-cutbacks-over-two-years-1423229.html
    Meanwhile, Communications Minister Eamon Ryan said he did not feel public transport or energy efficient 'green' projects would suffer in the cutbacks.

    "What the Taoiseach has rightly said is we need to develop our economy and, at the same time, make sure spending is in the limits that we have -- the 3pc limits [on borrowing] and so on that we have set by the European Union. And the Minister for Finance has indicated we have to prioritise our spending within that

    "I think any economic analysis is going to show investment in, particularly new digital economies, new electric economies and in energy efficiency, is going to make economic sense.

    "If anything, there is going to be greater emphasis on getting our use of fuel down. The current energy security situation requires us to do that."

    But that only means what I already said, namely that he has blown his 2008 Wood Pellet budget and needs to rob Broadband rollout again just like he did last year .

    Otherwise he would have stressed the equal importance of the NBS to the Wood Pellet scheme and not the "Greater Emphasis" ( his words) on the Wood Pellet scheme which is way over budget already for 2008 .

    If Ryan keeps making a balls of Communications they will eventually remove it from his department just like they did Marine in 2007 . Then he is minister for Energyu which is all he wants anyway. Its sneaky but so very Ryan.

    Then again Ryan knows that his energy policy will not result in his winning any rural Green votes so why would he care about Broadband in Rural areas anyway ???


  • #10
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    Disaster!

    We will wait and see what happens tomorrow..


  • #11
    mike76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭mike76


    any update on this?


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  • #12
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The public finances figures released today has spent €115m of his €230m budget for this year, exactly half in 6 months of the year.

    He has €115m left and of course the anticipated €50m-€70m price of the NBS must be paid for out of that must it not .

    Dempsey spent €140m by this time last year and no NBS to show for that either although a few MAN projects were included , Ryan robbed all the remaining BB money in September to pay for wood pellets.

    In the second half of last year Ryan spent €128m ( including the €10m he robbed) for a total departmental expenditure of €268m as you can see here but this year he has only €115m left .

    Ryan is currently running 7 different wood pellet and misc energy schemes as you can see here, none of which are closed for applications except teh House of Tommorow scheme .

    You should also note that the Wood Pellet guru has introduced a grant scheme for insulating 1m homes and for which no money has yet been drawn down , that was launched 2 months back

    Eamonns watchers on the Wood Pellet Ireland Blog noted .
    But here is the catch: house holders will have to pay out €100 towards a building energy assessment, with the government covering the remainder of the typical €350 fee. Geeeeze!!! €350 for a bloody "survey" - - This is a “licence to print money” for the “eco consultants”. I could insulate my entire attic fully for little more than the cost of the bloody survey.

    Catch Number Two

    More grants will then be available for 30% of the cost of the insulation etc up to a maximum of €2,500 as recommended by the survey. Oh boy!!! Will there be some back scratching here!!!

    I bet you the 30% will be eaten up just like the €4200 wood pellet boiler grant managed to be fully absorbed by the hungry hoards of “specialists”, "cowboys", and gougers that were let loose on an unsuspecting public by SEI. (see previous post "cheaper without the grant")

    I predict this is not going to be a great runner. I for one will not be bothering with it. I will be upgrading my attic insulation on a DIY basis.

    If I eventually decide to fit a wood pellet boiler - that is when the wood pellet supply and prices have stabilised, I will, most probably, import a boiler from Poland and have my plumber mate fit it alonside my oil boiler and not bother my arse with the grants, inspectors, commissioning agents, paperwork, gougers and "Paddy Tax", or a string of conditions.

    Ahhhhhh!!! I feel better after getting that off my chest - nice cup of Cocoa and a bikki now I think!!

    Nor do we know the cost of Change.ie , another Ryan wheeze .


  • #13
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    ha that change website is a joke.

    I would say I have a fairly high carbon footprint or at least the house does. I have a car and use public transport to get to work as it is in the city centre (train).

    There are 4 laptops in the house, then all those other nonsense questions.

    It told me, I have average usage. Then proceeded to give me a list of things I could do to lower that further, 90% of which I already do (and none of that stuff was asked on the fooking test), repeated one twice and some are just impractical since its a rented house.

    Now how about a change plan for businesses who are using most of the power in the country and generally the lights are left on in a lot of offices or computers are left on.

    As for the grants for wood pellets, I completely agree that grants just get swallowed by the retailer/service provider increasing prices because there is a grant. I can't believe they are p*ssing away their budget like this when they could be doing something useful.

    He does know, the NBS will reduce our carbon footprint since people can work from home?


  • #14
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    brim4brim wrote: »
    He does know, the NBS will reduce our carbon footprint since people can work from home?

    There is no evidence of that , he does know that country people will reduce their carbon footprints once they are urbanised .

    He also wants to clear the west coast of locals for his bicycle touring bizniss

    He also knows that there are no bus services there but he does not care !


  • #15
    mike76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭mike76


    from a political point of view he'd be mad to fund the pellet scheme over the nbs.....never saw an editorial in the IT like today's on pellets...they spent 2.5million on change.ie advertising etc.


  • #16
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    There is no evidence of that , he does know that country people will reduce their carbon footprints once they are urbanised .

    There is plenty of evidence for it though.

    The whole physics that if someone is in their house they don't burn as much fossil fuels as when they drive or take public transport to work (change.ie sites transport as being the biggest carbon emission for people for lack of a better way of putting it).

    People working from home usually have laptops which change.ie describes as using less energy than Desktops (obviously never seen my laptop but what the hell, I'll run with it).

    Then there is the reduced cost to business of having the person run their computer on their own electricity (making them more consious of using standby when going to lunch and after work). Relieves businesses broadband connection of extra strain by allowing workers to use their own broadband connection.

    Other things I can't think of right now.


  • #17
    cgarvey
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    Change.ie or carbon footprints have nothing to do with IrelandOffline, please keep to the topic.

    Anyway, it looks like Sponge Bob was wrong. Renamed thread to avoid confusion.


  • #18
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    Maybe not cancelled entirely but this doesn't sound like it'll be going ahead anytime soon (eventhough 2010 is mentioned).
    Minister Ryan says a national broadband infrastructure is essential for economic and social development.

    This morning he launched a discussion document on how best to progress this aim.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0703/broadband.html


  • #19
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,486 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    Nice if it ever sees the light of day...
    Minimum downstream bandwidth required to support a number of consumer applications [Source: Ofcom]

    Next Generation broadband wil be required to support the operation of multiple services, for example a number of HD TV channels in one house, with a game console and basic Internet aces in diferent rooms. This would require 25 Mbps download speed and 5 Mbps upload speeds. In addition to the speed requirements, many of these advanced services require a high-quality connection with no delays in the signal.


  • #20
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Ha!
    using MPEG4, ONE real HD channel peaks at 25Mbps. Satellite BBC HD is 18MBps to 20Mbps peak.

    You want 25Mbps for SD and 125MBps for HD to have multiple TV /Internet/Gaming via IP.

    Even then it can't compete with an Octo LNB and Satellite broadcast or Cable/MMDS /Terrestrial for TV.

    25Mbps isn't Next Gen. It's only x2 or the top of the range of current generation. Those Dungarvin folks that have had BB for 10 years get 20Mbps now.


  • #21
    croo
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 1,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭croo


    > connection speeds will equal or exceed those in other EU countries by 2012.
    Hmm... looks to be conveniently the other side of any next general election when he'll not have to worry about it!


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  • #22
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,486 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    Well, if UPC are only using DOCSIS 2.0 and not 3.0 on their upgraded system, we'll be waiting for a long time for them to provide anything approaching the required capacity for multiple HD channels, if what the document says is correct. - "typical commercial offerings would be between 20-25 Mbps and 50-75 Mbps"

    No mention is made of cable providors indicating further re-investment on their networks, especially after UPC saying they expect to have their network upgrade complete in the next two years.

    My reading of the strategy report was that this was going to be the minimum needed. I agree Watty, it's a bit on the low side, but it is probably mentioned to act as a sop for those who aren't getting any BB at present.

    Perhaps I was a little over enthusiastic in my previous post.. ;)


  • #23
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

    My reading of the strategy report was that this was going to be the minimum needed. I agree Watty, it's a bit on the low side, but it is probably mentioned

    My reading is different

    1. We ALREADY HAVE NGN in the form of

    a) ESB Fibre
    b) Smart and Magnet and Digiweb using it to provide ethernet tails
    c) Docis 2 to an extent , its more NGN than PGN

    So why does Ryan think we need a whole strategy to create what we ALREADY have rather than extend it ???

    2. Whats that on page 46 about procuring the NBS end 2009 ??? Looks like no money will be spent before 2010 at that rate , by which stage Ryan hopes to have Energy and Resources only in his department and kick comms off to Enterprise .

    He is on the last word in a minute, prepare for babble and gobble from Ryan. Nobody in rural Ireland will benefit from this charlatan :(


  • #24
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »
    Well, if UPC are only using DOCSIS 2.0 and not 3.0 on their upgraded system, we'll be waiting for a long time for them to provide anything approaching the required capacity for multiple HD channels, if what the document says is correct. - )

    They (UPC) can of course EASILY provide over 50 HD channels (to any number of set boxes) and existing TV and increase of Broadband by changing to MPEG4 and ditching Analogue.

    UPC don't need IPTV for TV, if you have 50 people on one cable segment, broadcast does it 50x more efficiently than IPTV and drives ANY number of set boxes.

    They and Digiweb can deploy DOCSIS 3.0 to ANY subscriber by swapping a modem. That user simply then "eats" the capacity of several users. DOCSIS 3.0 does not create any extra capacity. Simply allows a user to use more than one channel.

    Curiously I can more easily comment about what UPC can do in the next year and what eircom can't (IPTV on DSL can't serve more than 10% of population, and only at SD, not HD) than what Digiweb can do. (Expect nice surprises though :) )


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