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30-04-2007, 18:29   #1
Man Down
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Issues concerning possessing an Irish fake ID

Hi guys.

A mate of mine recently 'acquired' herself a fake ID in the form of a printed up provisional driving licence.

I'm just curious what the potential consequences this may have on her if she is caught? Say for example in a hypothetical if she goes to the door of a nightclub and a bouncer refueses her admission, can he call the gardaí and have her arrested for it? And what exactly would the charge be?

Also, if after closing time or at any stage during the night when you are walking through the town or city center, can a gaurd demand you to empty your pockets or open your wallet/purse etc..? I'm pretty sure they are not allowed to unless they have reasonable suspicion but if performing a random search my friends ID was found by a guard it would be very unlucky and unfortunate indeed.

Just curious about this, she asked me to do some scoping on the web..
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30-04-2007, 18:46   #2
burnedfaceman
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I have previously worked on a door, bouncers have to do security course and know all about how to spot fake ids, have the right to hold onto fake ones too as far as i remember.. it all depends on the club you are trying to get into usually the bouncer has made up his mind before even looked at ID. I dont think guards are in the business of stopping and searching people randomly but if they did they are well within rights to seize fake ID and you may be charged for possession of a forged Govt. ID
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30-04-2007, 18:46   #3
Robbo
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The Criminal Law (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 is "her" friend. She can have her pick of Forgery (unlimited fine and 10 years in the big house), or Using a False Instrument (same maximum penalties).

Of course the most likely outcome is that a bouncer will just confiscate it if he thinks it's dodgy and send your "friend" on her way.
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30-04-2007, 18:56   #4
blow69
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What will most likely happen is the bouncers will tell you to get lost and give you back the card.the police can't search you without some sort of a warrant.
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30-04-2007, 18:59   #5
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It happened to my friend about two years ago, he was caught with a fake id.

He was brought to the station and parents were brought in etc...etc... He had to say where he got it from, and after that, he got a court summons a cuple of months later. He had a liason officer for a year, who did random checks etc...not too sure of the details. He wasnt put in jail or nethin, dont even think he got a fine. Was just warned (because it was his first offence) and that was that.
He is 18 now so there's no problem!
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30-04-2007, 19:08   #6
ChRoMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blow69
the police can't search you without some sort of a warrant.
WTF?? where on earth did you get that idea?

A Guard can search you even if they just feel like it.
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30-04-2007, 19:26   #7
Catari Jaguar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChRoMe
WTF?? where on earth did you get that idea?

A Guard can search you even if they just feel like it.
Are you being sarcastic? They're not allowed to check your bag, or your car for that matter, or enter your house without a warrant unless it's the Misuse of Drugs Act and the Criminal Law Act 1997.

If they stop you and ask to search they have to give reason and name the law they are acting under

Here's a site, maybe somewhat biased, but it has your rights of what you are entitled to say or do when approached by a Garda
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82108

Last edited by Catari Jaguar; 30-04-2007 at 19:31.
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30-04-2007, 19:31   #8
Gran Hermano
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Last I heard once they have reason to believe that drugs are involved
they can go where they want and search whatever they want.
A great excuse for them to do as they like... all they have to say
is they thought they saw some suspicious substance in her handbag
or she looked under the influence of some narcotic.. And refusal
to show what's in your bag/wallet/purse could be seen as you
obviously having something to hide and therefore reasonable grounds
to search. Damned if you do and damned if you don't!

So don't think the police cant check your handbag for no reason.
And wouldn't it be a pity if whilst checking the happened upon the
fake ID.
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30-04-2007, 19:37   #9
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Cant believe a bouncer could be arsed reporting it unless the person gave him cheek after being refused. Id a load of fake IDs when I was younger. Places that didnt care would let you in, and some older or foreign bar/offy staff would pass them too.

Best refusal I ever saw was at 21s door one night a while back. Nice blonde one, southside, comes up with what presumably was her sisters Garda ID

Bouncer "Hmm, Sarah O`Reilly.....whats your date of birth Sarah"
Girl (confident as you like) "8th of October 1986"
Bouncer" You know, you have gorgeous brown eyes"
Girl (thinking shes playing a bouncer on the horn) "Ah thanks very much, your not bad yourself"
Bouncer "Yeah.....the girl in this photo has blue eyes. On your bike"

As I waved in behind her she started protesting she was wearing contacts, dunno if she got in but good instant excuse to come up with
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30-04-2007, 19:52   #10
TJJP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnedfaceman
I have previously worked on a door, bouncers have to do security course and know all about how to spot fake ids, have the right to hold onto fake ones too as far as i remember.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbo
Of course the most likely outcome is that a bouncer will just confiscate it if he thinks it's dodgy and send your "friend" on her way.
Weird, most of the questions here are related to the rights or wrongs of Gardai actions, yet nobody blinks an eyelid when two posters suggest that door staff 'have the right' to 'confiscate' items from punters.

Jaysus, someone call the Private Security Authority (PSA) quick.
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30-04-2007, 21:13   #11
cson
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Right, my experiences on this are;

If you are under 18 years of age the Gardai cannot search your person without the consent of your parents/guardian.

First-hand experience of the law: Myself and 3 mates came out of Croke Aprk after the all-ireland club finals last year. We'd won and made a beeline for the nearest pub which happened to be Quinns.

Now 2 of my mates had scanned one of their parents driving licences and messed about with them on the computer so that it fitted them. I don't know why Quinns had bouncers on the door as this was 3pm and AFAIK they cannot refuse you entry before 9pm.

Well we went in pairs, myself and my other mate, and the two with the fake licences. We got stopped and said we hadn't ID but our parents were inside, got in no problem. The two others.... well one got asked and one just walked straight in.

Bouncer took the fake licence off my mate, obviously recognised it for what it was and took it straight to the guards who were standing no more than 10 feet away. Didn't think it'd be a major biggie myself so I came out saw the guards having a chat with him, thinking it'd just be a strong word and he'd be on his merry way I went into the Centra next door for a coke.

Came out, mate in the back of a patrol car, took off up the street with the sirens on. Turns out forging a government document is quite a serious offence. He was held and questioned for 2 hours. Luckily one of us was 18 and could sign him out. He had one of those juvenile records that stay until your 18 and had a liason officer visit him a few times.

So morale of the story, do not forge a govt document.
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30-04-2007, 21:45   #12
beans
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Quote:
AFAIK they cannot refuse you entry before 9pm
This true? Doesn't sound right, surely door staff could refuse you any time they want. Anyone?
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30-04-2007, 21:59   #13
faceman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Kitten

Here's a site, maybe somewhat biased, but it has your rights of what you are entitled to say or do when approached by a Garda
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82108
what a load of bull on that site:

Quote:
It is often said that 'If a Garda asks you for your name and address, you must give it to him'.
I've heard a lot of people say it and I hear activists say it to eachother with full conviction. I've heard cops and legal people say it. The ICCL even advise it.

It’s bull****, it’s a lie and we've got to get that into our heads. If you believe it's true then you must obviously have knowledge of the relevant provision in law, and please post it here as a comment, with ’chapter and verse’ please, if you do.
sites like that should just be taken down.
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30-04-2007, 22:05   #14
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indymedia is a pile of ****e anyway its more of a "we hate the Garda/state" site.
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30-04-2007, 22:25   #15
ChRoMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Kitten
Are you being sarcastic? They're not allowed to check your bag, or your car for that matter, or enter your house without a warrant unless it's the Misuse of Drugs Act and the Criminal Law Act 1997.

If they stop you and ask to search they have to give reason and name the law they are acting under

Here's a site, maybe somewhat biased, but it has your rights of what you are entitled to say or do when approached by a Garda
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82108
Im taking from that idealisitc post that you dont have much experience of dealing with the Guards (that and using a indymedia link as your evidence!). If you refuse they will just make you do it (and usually give you a slap for being smart).

Its that simple.
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