Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
30-03-2006, 23:06   #1
yves
Registered User
 
yves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: dublintown
Posts: 12
Boiler in house very smelly

I am renting a house that has a Grant boiler inside the house in the kitchen which a mate has told me should be outside ! I find it very smelly and I mentioned this to landlord who pretty much told me to get lost ! I think it is smelling , he says no. I heard on the news last night that someone was admitted to hospital because of suspected carbon monoxide poisoning from a boiler inside the house.Apparently the windows were full of condensation and so is my place. 4 bed detached house and has vents. I kinda wanna stay in the house cos it suits - what should i do ? How does one measure if carbon monoxide is present ?
yves is offline  
Advertisement
31-03-2006, 09:23   #2
squire1
Registered User
 
squire1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Co Kildare
Posts: 718
There are boilers that are suitable for indoors as well as out door. If you had an outdoor boiler in your kitchen, you would be dead already so maybe your mate is mistaken.

However, there should be no smell coming from the boiler. What is the smell, fuel or exhaust? Have you checked around it for leaks? Can you get access to where the exhaust is vented to outside and check to see it is not blocked or obstructed in any way. There should be a cage over the outside vent to stop anything blocking it.

If you still have concerns, get the yellow pages and find someone who will check and service the boiler. They should be serviced every year I think. They will give you a report if there is a problem and if this is the case then your lanlord should reimburse your expenses.

Don't take any chances with this, if you are in doubt, call in the professionals despite what your landlord says.
squire1 is offline  
31-03-2006, 13:22   #3
Victor
Moderator
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Dublin
Posts: 63,578
Get teh model number and talk to the manfacturer or try to find the manual on their website.

Make sure all vents are unblocked - this is the cause (in part) of the condensation.

If it is gas, give Bord Gáis a shout - they tend to be extremely helpful.

Again, what kind of smell.
Victor is offline  
31-03-2006, 17:58   #4
Lex Luthor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6,754
If its a Grant Boiler, no doubt it is oil/kerosene type.

Carbon Monoxide is odourless gas, so thats not what you're smelling, but not saying its not there. More than likely its leaking somewhere which should be sorted by a service. Get the landlord to pay for a service. You can also buy an off-the-shelf CO monitor in Dixons for about €40. I recommend the SF detection type by Honeywell/Zellweger.
Lex Luthor is offline  
01-04-2006, 00:07   #5
rooferPete
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,493
Hi,

Possibly a leak where the balanced flue joins the boiler, a good service engineer should be able to tell you very quickly what the problem is and the cost of repair which as has been pointed out is most likely a good service.

Grant did make oil boilers for fitting inside the house they have a nice metal cabinet, well they were nice when new.

.
rooferPete is offline  
Advertisement
01-04-2006, 08:31   #6
Lex Luthor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by rooferPete

Grant did make oil boilers for fitting inside the house they have a nice metal cabinet, well they were nice when new.

.
Pete, you're right, they were nice when new. Mine is now 10yrs old and I'd love to move it or get an outdorr one, but can't justify the cost at the moment. Luckily for me its in a large utility room and doesn't smell too much.

Friend of mine has an identical one and it smells too. Nature of the beast. I think they will all smell eventually, just a matter of how much you can keep it at bay.
Lex Luthor is offline  
01-04-2006, 22:47   #7
JamesM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luthor
Pete, you're right, they were nice when new. Mine is now 10yrs old and I'd love to move it or get an outdorr one, but can't justify the cost at the moment. Luckily for me its in a large utility room and doesn't smell too much.

Friend of mine has an identical one and it smells too. Nature of the beast. I think they will all smell eventually, just a matter of how much you can keep it at bay.
Lex, Yves, your boiler does not have to smell ! They were designed to be in the kitchen. It is not the "Nature of the beast". An expert will know the difference between the smell of raw oil (a leak) and exhaust fumes.
Take off the front cover and check for an oil leak. Most smells are from a leak of kerosene. If you cannot see a leak put on a pair of rubber gloves. Feel around under the burner. Ckeck the bowl of the oil filter. Sometimes the firevalve leaks around the spindle. If you cannot find a leak, it may be that the burner is not adjusted properly. Go to the outside vent. If there is smoke, or a very sharp smell, then it is adjustment.
Sometimes when a boiler vents into a side passage, if the wind is in a certain direction, you will get exhaust gasses coming back into the boiler area - it is not usual.
Jim.

Last edited by JamesM; 01-04-2006 at 22:52.
JamesM is offline  
02-04-2006, 07:47   #8
Lex Luthor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6,754
James, the one I have is a 10yr old Grant 50/90 with a Euroflame burner. The flue where it joins the boiler has been sealed up best it can and last time the burner was out, I put a new gasket between the burner and the flange, but it still smells.

I have a question about the gasket and the burner I have installed. The last time an engineer came out to service the boiler he said he wouldn't service that specific burner due to its design. It has a braided hose feeding the burner and they have had problems before with them leaking. I agreed with him to a point that they leak as I have replaced mine about 5yrs ago, but he offered only to service it by replacing the burner with a new style at a cost of about €490 which included his €80 charge for the service. Needless to say, I cancelled the job.

I have an outdoor Firepac boiler in another house and I had the burner out of it last week. However there was no gasket in between the flange & burner on this one. Is the gasket a requirement only on the indoor boilers or are they not needed for this new style burner.

I didn't get the burner make/model but it was red and I'd recognise one again if I saw it. It had a braided hose as well feeding teh burner but had an additional protective layer.

If I was thinking of replacing my burner at some stage on my indoor one, could I buy a similar burner to the outdoor one and do away with the gasket? I'm of the opinion this gasket isn't sealing properly and could be the source of my minor smell.

Last edited by Lex Luthor; 02-04-2006 at 08:05.
Lex Luthor is offline  
02-04-2006, 22:40   #9
JamesM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luthor
James, the one I have is a 10yr old Grant 50/90 with a Euroflame burner. The flue where it joins the boiler has been sealed up best it can and last time the burner was out, I put a new gasket between the burner and the flange, but it still smells.

I have a question about the gasket and the burner I have installed. The last time an engineer came out to service the boiler he said he wouldn't service that specific burner due to its design. It has a braided hose feeding the burner and they have had problems before with them leaking. I agreed with him to a point that they leak as I have replaced mine about 5yrs ago, but he offered only to service it by replacing the burner with a new style at a cost of about €490 which included his €80 charge for the service. Needless to say, I cancelled the job.
The boiler is good. I have seen the name Euroflame, but cannot place it - it is not one of the more popular burners.
Grant started with a Minor 1 burner -while these burned well, they had lots of problems - the main one was that the motor and oil pump did not line up properly and when the oil pump was worn, the motor was not strong enough to turn it. It used to jam.
Then they started using the Riello G3. This (in my opinion) is the best oil burner of the last 40 years. There is an new Riello burner, a RDB 1. This is a good burner, but many people have gone back to the G3, which is still available.
I would use a G3 in most situations. The Bentone is also a good burner, used quite a bit, but I consider the G3 a quiter smoother burner. There is no gasket supplied with a G3 and I have never seen the need for one, indoor or outdoor. Most oil burners have flexable braided hoses. I have known them to last over 30 years. (That is a rubber hose, with a braided wire cover).
Quote:
I have an outdoor Firepac boiler in another house and I had the burner out of it last week. However there was no gasket in between the flange & burner on this one. Is the gasket a requirement only on the indoor boilers or are they not needed for this new style burner.
Is that a Firebird in a Cabinpac ? Indoor or outdoor, when a burner is burning well, a gasket is not needed. That is, when the rest of the system is OK. You can have problems if the flue exit is in a side passage or in a corner where the wind is swirling and blowing into the exhaust vent. Usually if the burner is a good make and adjusted well, you will not have a smell.
Quote:
I didn't get the burner make/model but it was red and I'd recognise one again if I saw it. It had a braided hose as well feeding teh burner but had an additional protective layer.

If I was thinking of replacing my burner at some stage on my indoor one, could I buy a similar burner to the outdoor one and do away with the gasket? I'm of the opinion this gasket isn't sealing properly and could be the source of my minor smell.
I think that the burner is the cause of the smell not just a gasket. Have you tried to smell the exhaust gasses outside ? If a kerosene burner is burning well, you can (almost) breath in the gasses at the vent. If there is a very sharp smell (or smoke), then it is not properly set up.
The Riello G3 is enclosed in a rectangular red box.
The Riello RDB has a red plastic molded cover on the left side of the burner. The Bentone has some red on the casing as well. They all have names somewhere on them.
That's all I can think of tonight
Jim.
JamesM is offline  
Advertisement
03-04-2006, 07:59   #10
Lex Luthor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6,754
Now that you remind me, my indoor burner is the Minor 1. I've had some problems with the motor coupling & motor bearing, but I cannot find anyone to service it. Is that across the industry.

My outdoor burner now that you describe it is a Riello RDB.

Any idea how much a Riello G3 burner would cost and would it fit in the Grant indoor burner?
Lex Luthor is offline  
03-04-2006, 09:21   #11
JamesM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex Luthor
Now that you remind me, my indoor burner is the Minor 1. I've had some problems with the motor coupling & motor bearing, but I cannot find anyone to service it. Is that across the industry.

My outdoor burner now that you describe it is a Riello RDB.

Any idea how much a Riello G3 burner would cost and would it fit in the Grant indoor burner?
I think that a G3 is about Euro 320 to 350. The G3 would be a perfect fit for the Grant and most likely would be quiter and smoother. If you have a fully ballanced flue, ie. the burner takes the air from outside the house, then you would need the RDB. If it just vents out through the wall the G3 is perfect.
I don't know why anyone would not service a Minor 1. They might warn the customer that it was a burner that gave a bit of trouble. They would replace main parts, like motor, oil pump, control box etc. They would replace a coupling, but would not replace a bearing in the motor - they would replace the motor. To be honest, most would advise the customer that it would be better to replace the burner, rather than putting parts into an old burner.
Jim.

Last edited by JamesM; 03-04-2006 at 09:25.
JamesM is offline  
03-04-2006, 10:43   #12
Lex Luthor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesM
I think that a G3 is about Euro 320 to 350. The G3 would be a perfect fit for the Grant and most likely would be quiter and smoother. If you have a fully ballanced flue, ie. the burner takes the air from outside the house, then you would need the RDB. If it just vents out through the wall the G3 is perfect.
I don't know why anyone would not service a Minor 1. They might warn the customer that it was a burner that gave a bit of trouble. They would replace main parts, like motor, oil pump, control box etc. They would replace a coupling, but would not replace a bearing in the motor - they would replace the motor. To be honest, most would advise the customer that it would be better to replace the burner, rather than putting parts into an old burner.
Jim.
I'll check later what type of flue is in it.

I'm not too bothered about replacing the bearing...when it seized a few years back, all I could find in Heatmercahnts is that they would only supply me with a burner, no bearing. However, I went to a bearing shop in the JFK Ind Est and got one for a few quid. Have replaced a few couplings already.

The only issue I might have is setting up the air/fuel mixture.

My tenant is telling me on the outdoor burner that it has gone to lockout again and the vent at the back is really black. I'm guessing she has been messing with the brass control valve for the oil into the burner and has enriched the mixture because when I was down last week it was very black & sooty in the burner nozzle area. Is this easy to set or best leave it to someone with proper equipment to set this up?
Lex Luthor is offline  
03-04-2006, 13:39   #13
JamesM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,382
I'm getting a bit mixed up The Grant 50/90 is the Euroflame with the Minor 1 burner ? If so, the Riello G3 will be a perfect replacement. It is unlikely that it had a real balanced flue. A balanced flue takes the air for the burner from around the vent outside and feeds it to the burner through an air hose. Some people call a vent, which exhausts the gasses out through the wall, a balanced flue.

With the other burner (This is the RDB - is it with a Grant as well ?): If the vent out the back is black, then the air/oil mix is off. I think that the brass valve you are talking about is the fire valve (it is just before the flex oil line). If so, it must be turned on, but does not regulate the flow of oil. There are 2 adjustments on the RDB, the oil pressure and the air. The oil pressure adjustment is a screw faceing you on the oil pump. The air is adjusted with an allen key. If the tenant messed with anything it is likely the oil pressure screw. People often turn this screw when trying to bleed the burner, when they have let the oil run out. That screw has a narrow head and then it widens out. It sits in a recess. If the wide bit is just showing, that is close to the right pressure. The photocell is probably black by now , so pull it gently back towards you and clean the glass tip. Depending on what boiler this is, there are diferent ways of seeing the flame. Maybe take out the baffles or there might be a spyhole. BE CAREFUL. I am only telling you to have a go at this because you seem to have an idea of what you are doing. I should be saying "Get a service engineer". When you can see the flame and if it looks as if the oil pressure screw has been screwed in too far, try turning the screw anticlockwise. If the flame is smokey and orange, it should clean up as you turn the screw. When you see a very bright clean flame with the slightest hint of blue in it - that just might be OK. It is difficult to explain - if you are not sure you will save money in the long run by paying an expert to look at it - you will save in economy.
Jim.
JamesM is offline  
03-04-2006, 18:40   #14
malmatthews
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by yves
I am renting a house that has a Grant boiler inside the house in the kitchen which a mate has told me should be outside ! I find it very smelly and I mentioned this to landlord who pretty much told me to get lost ! I think it is smelling , he says no. I heard on the news last night that someone was admitted to hospital because of suspected carbon monoxide poisoning from a boiler inside the house.Apparently the windows were full of condensation and so is my place. 4 bed detached house and has vents. I kinda wanna stay in the house cos it suits - what should i do ? How does one measure if carbon monoxide is present ?
Having survived major problems with an outdoor system, I still sympathise. The root of the problem appears to be with the landlord's unwillingness to deal with the issue. I would ask him whether the boiler has been serviced in the last few years. Probably not. I would then insist that the boiler be serviced. Better still offer to arrange this yourself. Be there when the service engineer arrives and explain the problem. In my experience these people are very good; I've heard of boilers not having been serviced for years!. Also you can try changing to kerosene if you're on diesel as the former is cleaner.
malmatthews is offline  
03-04-2006, 18:41   #15
Lex Luthor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6,754
James, I'll need to get more information on the outdoor boiler on the weekend, but I know she has been messing with the allen key adjustment to bleed it each time. She lets it go empty every time and then fills it and bleeds it. I organised an engineer to call out to her this morning to look at it for her and he said the cause of the burner not working was due to a mouse. She was vague with her details so I might just call them this tomorrow and find out what the issue was. She's constantly leaving the boiler door open, so she's just looking for them to come in. In one ear, out the other.

As for my indoor boiler, its a Grant Euroflame with balanced flue. I'll use your post above as reference when I'm servicing it soon, but after I gap the elctrodes, replace the nozzle, check the pressure, how do I set the air regulator adjustment on the silencer cover? I've fiddled with it before and depending on which way it is turned, will produce black smoke outside and clear smoke.

Last edited by Lex Luthor; 03-04-2006 at 18:43.
Lex Luthor is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet