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Hi all,
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Thanks all.

Je Suis Mila

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24567

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    #32
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    SexBobomb wrote: »
    You might not like it but it absolutely does. The ability to criticise ideologies is a must if you believe in freedom of speech.

    100%.
    I find attacks on any religion distasteful though I belong to none. Some of the crudity aimed against the Christian religion, for example, makes me cringe. I feel the same way about crude attacks against Islam - it is impolite and crass. But I completely believe in the right of all people to express their sentiments against all or any religion or polotical ideology. No one has to uphold my personal standard of habitual restraint. To think that there are religious adherents who will issue rape and death threats against any insult to their belief system is anathema to me.


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    #33
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. That is what you took from this? You are going to try turn this into a feminist thread?

    You should really be ashamed of yourself.

    yeah, this is the muslim bashing thread


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    #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    yeah, this is the muslim bashing thread

    Not at all. It is a thread which may be critical of Islam and extremists who want to shut down any criticism of it.

    I wouldn't agree with anyone generalising that all muslims are bad.

    But if you feel that any criticism of Islam is "muslim-bashing" then you are entitled to be wrong.


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    #35
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Gynoid wrote: »
    100%.
    I find attacks on any religion distasteful though I belong to none. Some of the crudity aimed against the Christian religion, for example, makes me cringe. I feel the same way about crude attacks against Islam - it is impolite and crass. But I completely believe in the right of all people to express their sentiments against all or any religion or polotical ideology. No one has to uphold my personal standard of habitual restraint. To think that there are religious adherents who will issue rape and death threats against any insult to their belief system is anathema to me.

    So what's the point of the thread again?


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    So what's the point of the thread again?

    I found it to show that there is a certain hypocrisy on how people tolerate violence and intimidation from certain extremists based on the religion that they practice and how it isn't accepted when it is a different religion.

    But I suppose you don't think we should have this conversation as it is "muslim bashing" judging by the post you thanked?


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    #37
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    So what's the point of the thread again?

    I disagree with blasphemy rules creeping in by any means.
    Or do you agree with blasphemy rules, laws or customs? Perhaps you do.


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    #38
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I found it to show that there is a certain hypocrisy on how people tolerate violence and intimidation from certain extremists based on the religion that they practice and how it isn't accepted when it is a different religion.

    fair enough, I thought it was about the poor girl being threatened, maybe I should be ashamed of myself


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    #39
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I found it to show that there is a certain hypocrisy on how people tolerate violence and intimidation from certain extremists based on the religion that they practice and how it isn't accepted when it is a different religion.

    But I suppose you don't think we should have this conversation as it is "muslim bashing" judging by the post you thanked?

    I don't follow.


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    fair enough, I thought it was about the poor girl being threatened, maybe I should be ashamed of myself

    No need to be ashamed of yourself; just maybe read the opening post a little more carefully.


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I don't follow.

    It's ok.


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    #42
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Gynoid wrote: »
    I disagree with blasphemy rules creeping in by any means.
    Or do you agree with blasphemy rules, laws or customs? Perhaps you do.

    I think all religion should be private and have zero bearing on any state or people unless they choose to follow which ever book of fantasy is to their liking.

    I think the point of the thread actually is, 'Bad people do bad things. Bad things are bad'. I agree.

    The con version however, 'Not all Muslims, but aren't Muslims bad? Not all, but, Muslims, am I right?'


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I think all religion should be private and have zero bearing on any state or people unless they choose to follow which ever book of fantasy is to their liking.

    I think the point of the thread actually is, 'Bad people do bad things. Bad things are bad'. I agree.

    The con version however, 'Not all Muslims, but aren't Muslims bad? Not all, but, Muslims, am I right?'

    Who has said that?


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    #44
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Who has said that?

    I did. My name is right there. You even quoted me.
    'I think', kind of gives it away.


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    #45
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I think all religion should be private and have zero bearing on any state or people unless they choose to follow which ever book of fantasy is to their liking.

    I think the point of the thread actually is, 'Bad people do bad things. Bad things are bad'. I agree.

    Personally I would like to see robust enforcement of anti blasphemy laws in all modern European democracies. To have declared social policies that will not tolerate the imposition of any religious ideologies on civil society. For people in government, judiciary, policing to make clear that they will not tolerate any creep of religious ideology into civil life. No fatwas, no FGM, no compulsory veiling or special clothing, no private religious courts, no prevention of women from entering cafes or public facilities in any part of any city, no marriage with minors, perhaps even no consanguineal marriage given the burden on public healthcare.
    But yeah, start with the basics like not having young girls afraid to say fcuk you in however way they see fit.


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    #46
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Gynoid wrote: »
    Personally I would like to see robust enforcement of anti blasphemy laws in all modern European democracies. To have declared social policies that will not tolerate the imposition of any religious ideologies on civil society. For people in government, judiciary, policing to make clear that they will not tolerate any creep of religious ideology into civil life. No fatwas, no FGM, no compulsory veiling or special clothing, no private religious courts, no prevention of women from entering cafes or public facilities in any part of any city, no marriage with minors, perhaps even no consanguineal marriage given the burden on public healthcare.
    But yeah, start with the basics like not having young girls afraid to say fcuk you in however way they see fit.

    And if anyone attacks that girl the law will be on them. Same with any other criminal despite their reasons. So no worries.


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    #47
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    And if anyone attacks that girl the law will be on them. Same with any other criminal despite their reasons. So no worries.

    It does not worry you that in 2020 in Europe a young person has to go into hiding from death and rape threats because she criticised a religion?
    The aggressors will be dealt with if they rape or kill her.
    Okay. Good to know your opinion.


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    #48
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    No need for fatwas over here soon.
    Simply report the teenage girl for hate speech and let the justice system silence her.


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    #49
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I found it to show that there is a certain hypocrisy on how people tolerate violence and intimidation from certain extremists based on the religion that they practice and how it isn't accepted when it is a different religion.

    But I suppose you don't think we should have this conversation as it is "muslim bashing" judging by the post you thanked?

    Right... but it seems that the OP is trying to prove that this hypocrisy exists and that will be tough to do on a thread such as this, as everyone who is sickened by the treatment of this girl might not post about it. I doubt there’ll be many people defending the treatment of the girl. If the exact same incident happened in Ireland (not the Catholic version), can you see people shrugging their shoulders?

    It’s an inelegant thought experiment, IMO.


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    #50
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgbJLO6XmQw

    In French


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    #51
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    biko wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgbJLO6XmQw

    In French

    Malheureusement je ne peut pas comprendre le video parce qu'ils parlent trop vite pour moi :(


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    #52
    MMXX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭MMXX


    Islam, is a very tricky subject to talk about, if you ask me - especially in today's world. There's a fine line between bigotry, and the truth - a very, very fine line. And I find it very difficult to walk this line. On one hand, I see the good, law-abiding, honest, hard-working Muslims - trying to live their lives as best as they can; I see Muslims displaced by war, genocide and conflict - the innocent Muslims killed by other Muslims - and non-Muslims alike... ...on the other hand - I see in Europe, and indeed the entire world - terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack - and I can not help but think... Jesus - there's a terrible amount of death associated with this particular religion. Is it really just a coincidence? Really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_in_Europe
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

    Isn't Islam a little bit different? A little bit more dangerous than the others? Surely it is? Regardless of anything and everything? Surely it is?


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    #53
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Gynoid wrote: »
    It does not worry you that in 2020 in Europe a young person has to go into hiding from death and rape threats because she criticised a religion?
    The aggressors will be dealt with if they rape or kill her.
    Okay. Good to know your opinion.

    Do I worry about criminals and believe they should be deterred and brought to justice? Yes.

    Are you suggesting we invoke some form of thought police to preempt any criminal behaviour based on people being from a particular demographic because you might have issues with it? Because I don't.
    We can only act on criminal behaviour.
    The people threatening her can and should be charged....seems to me you are suggesting we treat people from a certain religion differently to everyone else.


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    #54
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    MMXX wrote: »
    .....
    there's a terrible amount of death associated with this particular religion. Is it really just a coincidence? Really?

    Isn't Islam a little bit different? A little bit more dangerous than the others? Surely it is? Regardless of anything and everything? Surely it is?

    No, it isn't.
    Will I counter with Christians carpet bombing schools, hospitals for oil money? The region the west continually craps on from a great height is mostly Muslim, so any terrorist group pissed off at the west will be Muslim.
    When Bin Laden took out the twin towers the U.S. used it as and excuse to torch an entire country.
    Do you hold yourself responsible for that?


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    #55
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Do I worry about criminals and believe they should be deterred and brought to justice? Yes.

    Are you suggesting we invoke some form of thought police to preempt any criminal behaviour based on people being from a particular demographic because you might have issues with it? Because I don't.
    We can only act on criminal behaviour.
    The people threatening her can and should be charged....seems to me you are suggesting we treat people from a certain religion differently to everyone else.

    Not at all. The point of my inelegant thought experiment is that ANYONE issuing death or rape threats against another person who has criticised their ideological tenets should be abhorred by a thinking society. And very publicly condemed and routed.
    I find it strange that there even exists such a cohort, evidently not tiny given the huge amount of abuse and threats Mila received, and who feel comfortable to threaten a person with death in such a public way. They doxxed her too, remember. She will likely be fearful for the rest of her life. People like Ayaan Hirsi Ali live circumscribed lives because of people like that. The Danish film maker Van Gogh does not live at all, along with 12 people who worked at Charlie Hebdo. This is a thread of subtle terrorism that weaves through modern Europe.


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    #56
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No need to be ashamed of yourself; just maybe read the opening post a little more carefully.

    it's a pity though, if it had've been about the girl the thread might have taken off, we could have gotten 10 or 12 pages out of it at this stage, as it turns out we skipped the foreplay and blew our load too soon...


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    #57
    MMXX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭MMXX


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Will I counter with Christians carpet bombing schools, hospitals for oil money? The region the west continually craps on from a great height is mostly Muslim, so any terrorist group pissed off at the west will be Muslim.
    When Bin Laden took out the twin towers the U.S. used it as and excuse to torch an entire country.
    Do you hold yourself responsible for that?
    Two things can be true at the same time. Just because America is the most outrageously aggressive, oil-thirsty, morally bankrupt nation on the earth - doesn't mean that Islam is not the most dangerous religion. It wasn't George Washington that wrote the Koran.


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    #58
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    it's a pity though, if it had've been about the girl the thread might have taken off, we could have gotten 10 or 12 pages out of it at this stage, we skipped the foreplay and blew our load too soon...

    I don't care about threads "taking off". I am accustomed to holding unpopular opinions. It struck me that there was very little media coverage of the situation, and I thought to bring it to some attention on a public forum. C'est tout. No masturbatory intent at all. You know about Mila now. You know that the French police have told a 16 year old girl to go into hiding for blaspheming. You can let that fact work in your brain, however subtly, and let it contribute to your comprehension of some small part of the way some things are. That is enough.


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    #59
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Any repercussions for those who threatened her with rape and murder?


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    #60
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Any repercussions for those who threatened her with rape and murder?

    Well hopefully there will be. But the police are also investigating if Mila commited the crime of hate speech.


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    #61
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Gynoid wrote: »
    I don't care about threads "taking off". ... You know about Mila now. You know that the French police have told a 16 year old girl to go into hiding for blaspheming.

    when i read the OP I thought the thread would go a different path, and I thought about a tweet I read yesterday, that I would have posted when the conversation turned in that direction...

    from a victim of a sex ring in the West Midlands

    https://twitter.com/KateElysiaNWO/status/1219738058448351236


    she has posted her reply to that request, aswell as some passages from the unedited manuscript, as replies to that tweet, with a trigger warning


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