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Clare man has debts of nearly 60m written off

  • 23-01-2020 4:07pm
    #1
    mammyod
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭


    Irish Examiner Breaking news today: Clare-man-has-debts-of-nearly-€60m-written-off-after-court-approves-insolvency-deal

    This is disgraceful!!

    How can this man get off so lightly, after the trail of money he owes!!!?

    How did he manage to get into such debt?

    €50K is nothing, when you think of the money he owes to his creditors, and the tax payers still bailing out the banks after him!

    Even if this "Business man" had to pay something like €300K, it would be some sort of punishment for the reckless spending of other peoples money! No doubt a few flash cars along the way!!

    Some "Business man"!!


Comments

  • #2
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Sure if he hasn't got the money he hasn't got the money? What do you want them to do? Harvest a few organs from him or something? A public scourging at the pillar?

    The price of a new fancy car or two, if he has that, will hardly amount to much of a dent in €60 million of debts.

    It is not reasonable or right that you would enforce destitution on someone on account of their debts. What good would it do to make him and his family destitute by taking every last asset and their home ? the house is a relatively modest house in an estate in Ennis - not some country manor or McMansion.

    i think it is quite reasonable to leave a person with their roof over their heads and a vehicle or 2 so that they have the means to get back on their feet.


  • #3
    mammyod
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mammyod


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Sure if he hasn't got the money he hasn't got the money? What do you want them to do? Harvest a few organs from him or something? A public scourging at the pillar?

    The price of a new fancy car or two, if he has that, will hardly amount to much of a dent in €60 million of debts.

    It is not reasonable or right that you would enforce destitution on someone on account of their debts. What good would it do to make him and his family destitute by taking every last asset and their home ? the house is a relatively modest house in an estate in Ennis - not some country manor or McMansion.

    i think it is quite reasonable to leave a person with their roof over their heads and a vehicle or 2 so that they have the means to get back on their feet.


    Why didnt he consider all that before he carried on with his business that was haemorrhaging such money, like any responsible man would be expected to do.
    What about the small subby that has been left "destitution" by not getting the money they are owed by him, many forced into closure themselves because of him?


  • #4
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Sure that is the way it goes with those things. That is the risk you take when you set up a business - it might go down the pan. And the sole trader subby took on the same risk that he might go out of business. And I'm sure that subby who went broke also left a load of unpaid bills and creditors after him.

    Sure half the country went broke during that time.

    And sure if the business was going so bad what was he supposed to do? Just say "ok we better stop and just pack it all in" . Sure that would have had the same effect - business stops funcitoning and people don't get paid.


  • #5
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Put up a story about the guy, will you.


  • #6
    mammyod
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mammyod


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Sure that is the way it goes with those things. That is the risk you take when you set up a business - it might go down the pan.

    Ya but you need to know when to draw the line. Grow a pair and make the decision to end it as its not working, not bury your head in the sand and keep going, hope it works out somehow! How could you let it run to a debt of €60m. That sort of debt could never have been overcome. If it was 2 or 3 million fair enough

    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Sure half the country went broke during that time.

    No , just a handful went to such a level of greedy stubborn recklessness. The majority of us that didn't have such big notions just kept the head down and worked away through it as best we could.
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    And sure if the business was going so bad what was he supposed to do? Just say "ok we better stop and just pack it all in" . Sure that would have had the same effect - business stops funcitoning and people don't get paid.

    yes that would have been an idea. People still owed money alright, but not to such a large scale of €60m


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  • #7
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    If there any actual legal discussion happening here or just an agitation for the return of debtors prisons?


  • #8
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Ah sure lookit, it's all water under the bridge now. Why are you getting so worked up over it?

    save your breath for cooling your porridge.


  • #9
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,779 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    'Behind every bad borrower, is a bad lender'!


  • #10
    mammyod
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mammyod


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Ah sure lookit, it's all water under the bridge now. Why are you getting so worked up over it?

    save your breath for cooling your porridge.

    ya, shur just another €60m. And we'r wondering why people lay on hospital trolley's?! ha!


  • #11
    mammyod
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mammyod


    Robbo wrote: »
    If there any actual legal discussion happening here or just an agitation for the return of debtors prisons?

    yes, the legal discussion is - how did this guy get away with such debt?!:confused:


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  • #12
    Gavlor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,172 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    mammyod wrote: »
    yes, the legal discussion is - how did this guy get away with such debt?!:confused:

    Because he does not have the means to repay it or pay his debts as they fall due.

    Case closed.


  • #13
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,195 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    mammyod wrote: »
    yes, the legal discussion is - how did this guy get away with such debt?!:confused:

    The High Court approved it.

    Legal mystery solved.


  • #14
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Because he doesn't have €60m to pay these debts. As has been reiterated, if he does not have the money, he cannot pay it.

    That is the nature of bankrupcy - you are bankrupt, you have little or nothing left with which to pay your debts. As much as he, or any of us, might like, money cannot be summoned up out of nowhere by rubbing an oil lamp or picked from a tree.

    As said, case closed.

    I suggest you vent your spleen on Joe Duffy's LiveLine as there is no legal discussion to be had here on this matter.


  • #15
    mammyod
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mammyod


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    money cannot be summoned up out of nowhere by rubbing an oil lamp or picked from a tree.
    .

    he should have thought of that before he borrowed the €60m, or at least mid-way towards the €60m!! great people when things going good, the rest of us left bailing them out when things dont go their way.

    goodman TheBoyConor, maybe i will go on joe duffy ya



    The legal discussion is , surely this isnt good legal practice?


  • #16
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Ah will you come off of the stage, will you?

    Sure at that rate no-body would ever do anything or make any sort of risky venture. As my father said of a fella one time who was so incredibly averse to taking a risk that "he wouldn't take the risk to make a fart for fear that it might be diarrhoea".

    It is the very well established legal practice surrounding PIAs and bankruptcy. It has been given the approval of the high court. What more do you want?

    Do. Go on Joe Duffy, him and his band of misery porn addict listeners will lap up your "tis a disgrace, joe".

    Here is the script of how it will play out. Take your pick of phrases..........
    LIVELINEBINGO.png
    VaVFwFn.png?2


  • #17
    mammyod
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mammyod


    Your only talking rubbish TheBoyConor. Your replies are just childish.

    Im a businessman myself, and know very well how things work. We all know how to take risks, and have done so, but none of us ended up with a debt of €60m. Shur why didnt we all just go take out a €60m loan then?

    A responsible businessman would cut their losses mid way and move on to something else. Or at least slow the operation down, not plough on like a raging bull, throwing good money after bad.

    That's just pure stubborn recklessness, and the person should be punished for it.
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    It is the very well established legal practice surrounding PIAs and bankruptcy. It has been given the approval of the high court.

    . . and my query here is, is it a correct procedure?


  • #18
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    And you are just coming across as a grump with an axe to grind and inflict it on anyone who will read it.

    PIAs have been going on with years. It is an established process. That is how the system works, it works well. The court has approved it.

    There really is no more to be said about any of it. It is a done deal.

    And do you know the ins and outs of his business, to say that you know all this?



    Punished? In what way? debtors prisons were done away with many many many years ago.

    And if he was sent to prison? Is that going to give the debtors their €60m back?
    All imprisoning him would do is prevent him from making any living at all and will end up costing the state many hundreds of thousands more in keeping him in prison for a few years.

    The man is a failed businessman. He is not a violent person. He is not a danger to the public and as such he has no place in prison. Putting him in prison would serve no purpose and be of no benefit to society.

    You just seem to want to settle a personal vendetta against the man.

    Give over and go back to tending to your own business before it too goes bust and you end up with a PIA and bankrupt yourself.


  • #19
    mammyod
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mammyod


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    And do you know the ins and outs of his business, to say that you know all this?

    What are you looking for us to do about it?

    I dont need to know anything about his business, only he took out a loan of €60m that he couldnt pay back.

    Read my post TheBoyConor, I dont want you to do anything about it . . .. this is a discussion platform! You seem to be getting very excited about it.


  • #20
    mammyod
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭mammyod


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    And you are just coming across as a grump with an axe to grind and inflict it on anyone who will read it.

    PIAs have been going on with years. It is an established process. That is how the system works, it works well. The court has approved it.

    There really is no more to be said about any of it. It is a done deal.

    And do you know the ins and outs of his business, to say that you know all this?



    Punished? In what way? debtors prisons were done away with many many many years ago.

    And if he was sent to prison? Is that going to give the debtors their €60m back?
    All imprisoning him would do is prevent him from making any living at all and will end up costing the state many hundreds of thousands more in keeping him in prison for a few years.

    The man is a failed businessman. He is not a violent person. He is not a danger to the public and as such he has no place in prison. Putting him in prison would serve no purpose and be of no benefit to society.

    You just seem to want to settle a personal vendetta against the man.

    Give over and go back to tending to your own business before it too goes bust and you end up with a PIA and bankrupt yourself.


    read my post again TheBoyConor. The only one who mentions prison is you.

    As i said, something like €300k would be much more realistic than a measley €50k, in my opinion.
    I dont know the man at all, and my business is running fine, thanks.


  • #21
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    read my previous post again.....

    Yeah, maybe he took a few bad decisions or whatever and it went belly up. Is that not enough humiliation in itself? Why do you seem so keen to see the man punished and made to suffer personally for having his business fail?

    There is no discussion to be had. The PIAs are an established legal process and this particular process has concluded with the agreement of all parties and the approval of the high court. What more is there to discuss?

    this sort of stuff is not unique. Businesses go broke every day of the week. Look at Irish Oififiuil - there are pages and pages of every issue devoted to notices about bankrupt and winding up of businesses.

    It is only money at the end of the day. No-one died. Relax a bit and stop letting a situation that has absolutely fúck all to do with you get you so worked up.


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  • #22
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    mammyod wrote: »
    read my post again TheBoyConor. The only one who mentions prison is you.

    As i said, something like €300k would be much more realistic than a measley €50k, in my opinion.
    I dont know the man at all, and my business is running fine, thanks.


    Well what point is there in making him pay €300k if he doesn't have €300k to give?

    Maybe €50k is simply all he had to give?

    It is like me asking you to give me 20 apples. If I know that you don't have 20 apples, and that you actually only have 5 apples, then what is the point of me ordering you to give me 20 apples? I know you cannot give me 20.

    It is fairly basic like.

    If your own business went tits up would you be so keen to dish out such harsh punitive treatments?


  • #23
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    He is failed builder with majority of debt to Anglo (Nama now). It's not hard to understand this is legacy of crash and something like that dragging for 10 years is long enough to know that there won't be much more money coming from him.

    Unless people want more money wasted on legal fees there is no point whinging on and on about this.


  • #24
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Let us also remember, the €50k is not a fine. It is an agreed settlement that the debtor will give to the creditors in part payment for their debts.
    It is a settlement that the parties have come to. It is not a punishment or penalty or fine or anything of the sort. It is not a criminal matter anyway.


    I can't believe that someone who claims to run their own business can be so utterly thick to not be able understand the above circumstances.


  • #25
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Any link????


  • #26
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/insolvency-arrangement-approved-for-man-with-60-million-in-debts-1.4145939%3fmode=amp


  • #27
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Any link????
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/clare-man-has-debts-of-nearly-60m-written-off-after-court-approves-insolvency-deal-976577.html
    Mr Whelan's creditors include National Asset Loan Management (NALM) which is a company of Nama, which was owed some €56.4m arising out of personal guarantees he had given in respect in respect of four companies owned by his family.

    The firms were all part of the Whelan Group of companies, which were involved in the construction industry, and had got into difficulties following the economic crash.

    He gave the guarantees when the companies sought to enter examinership, but that process was ultimately unsuccessful.

    The companies had taken out loans with the now-defunct Anglo Irish Bank.

    He also owed €1.46m to Bank of Scotland and €1.44m to Cabot Asset Purcashes Ireland, which had both secured mortgage judgements for those respective amounts against Mr Whelan's family home.


  • #28
    Millionaire only not
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Millionaire only not


    Ah there is a bigger picture here it wasn’t like he borrowed 60 million in one swoop that was with last 20/30 years !
    They had a lot of stuff on the go 100’s employed big loss to mid west at the time and still is !
    The big boys put the boot wanted them out of the way !
    If they were dishonest people like the rest they’d have millions put away for themselves! but they put every last Bob in to keep it going !
    Closed since just lieing there idle , wether they wud have traded there way out is anyone’s guess !


  • #29
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,411 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I wonder if he’s aligned to a particular party?
    You have to know someone to obtain finances like that.


  • #30
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Nothing by way of legal discussion going on here. Thread closed.


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