Pharmacy for animals..is there such a thing in Ireland? (like a Boots for pets?)

martco · 16-01-2020 3:32pm #1

help!

I have a choc Lab who's getting on in life and is on a permanent (for the forseeable) prescription for Loxicom.

Having the Loxicom dispensed at our current (albeit very competent, nice and all) vet is for some reason horrendously expensive, unaffordable. I know this as for the last 2 years now I've been happily ordering it online from UK based pharmacies for 1/3 the price to the parcel motel. He's seen every 6 months by our vet & and we always supply the correct issued prescription when ordering.

Anyway, now he's due again but on this latest attempt to order something (Brexit?) has changed....I've had refusals from the usual pharmacy citing a "change in procedures" & having tried all the other UK guys I have had variations in response but there seems to be a pattern - they now refuse to process prescriptions issued outside the UK citing the "RVCS register"

I can't afford the price this vet is charging, he's on a decent dose.

so my question is this: given I have to purchase meds for the dog is there any method to obtain them outside of the Vet that is seeing the dog/issued the prescription? as per human world, why can't I shop around for my dispensed drugs

thanks

Duke of Url · 16-01-2020 3:35pm

martco wrote: »

help!

I have a choc Lab who's getting on in life and is on a permanent (for the forseeable) prescription for Loxicom.

Having the Loxicom dispensed at our current (albeit very competent, nice and all) vet is for some reason horrendously expensive, unaffordable. I know this as for the last 2 years now I've been happily ordering it online from UK based pharmacies for 1/3 the price to the parcel motel. He's seen every 6 months by our vet & and we always supply the correct issued prescription when ordering.

Anyway, now he's due again but on this latest attempt to order something (Brexit?) has changed....I've had refusals from the usual pharmacy citing a "change in procedures" & having tried all the other UK guys I have had variations in response but there seems to be a pattern - they now refuse to process prescriptions issued outside the UK citing the "RVCS register"

I can't afford the price this vet is charging, he's on a decent dose.

so my question is this: given I have to purchase meds for the dog is there any method to obtain them outside of the Vet that is seeing the dog/issued the prescription? as per human world, why can't I shop around for my dispensed drugs

thanks

Can you not order it online?

https://mccartneyvetshop.ie/product/loxicom-for-dogs/

martco · 16-01-2020 3:52pm

Duke of Url wrote: »

Can you not order it online?

https://mccartneyvetshop.ie/product/loxicom-for-dogs/

thanks for that link @Duke

it's a wee bit better (a tenner less than the vet) but still a country mile off unfortunately....price varied but when I order online from UK I usually get it for STG£25-28 for 200ml (2x100ml bottles) incl. postage.

so even that crowd are 2x as expensive best case

Alun · 16-01-2020 3:57pm

Looking closer it looks like that online shop is only for customers of his own veterinary practice which is a bit mad.

I had the same when Buffy was on fortekor for her CKD. I could have got it for a third of the price I pay here, and given the own-risk and excess on our insurance policy it would still have worked out cheaper to have got it from the UK and not claimed it! Vested interests including importers, distributors and other middlemen taking their cuts along the way is probably the main reason for the price difference, like many things here unfortunately.

martco · 16-01-2020 4:04pm

Alun wrote: »

Looking closer it looks like that online shop is only for customers of his own veterinary practice which is a bit mad.

I had the same when Buffy was on fortekor for her CKD. I could have got it for a third of the price I pay here, and given the own-risk and excess on our insurance policy it would still have worked out cheaper to have got it from the UK and not claimed it! Vested interests including importers, distributors and other middlemen taking their cuts along the way is probably the main reason for the price difference, like many things here unfortunately.

allow me to wreck your head a little more

this stuff is made in....Newry

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

tk123 · 16-01-2020 7:40pm

Waa I’ve to get Baileys prescription at the weekend - hope I can still get it online as it’s €150 cheaper! I normally get it from https://www.petdrugsonline.co.uk/ and send to parcel wizard.

Maybe talk to your vet and see if pardale/paracetamol/tramadol is an option as it’d work out cheaper from a normal chemist?

martco · 16-01-2020 7:57pm

tk123 wrote: »

Maybe talk to your vet and see if pardale/paracetamol/tramadol is an option as it’d work out cheaper from a normal chemist?

I wondered about this too...Tramadol is one of those ones that's possibly suitable but I wouldn't want to take the risk. I think in general the physiology of a dog's major organs in how they process/metabolise is very different to us so although you might think something should work it's a huge leap & could badly hurt your pet.

I wouldn't go there.

martco · 16-01-2020 8:25pm

the plot thickens...

Earlier I phoned the company who make Loxicom (Norbrook) & made some inquiries. Within 30 mins I had received a call from ore of their reps for Ireland. Nice polite sympathetic person but we didn't practically solve anything for my Labrador.
She suggested I write a letter to something called the HPRA & Veterinary Ireland
She also suggested to look at some alternative similar products/brands (same pricing differential situation exists there to my knowledge)

However I did establish something interesting, at least in the context of this particular drug product. Norbrook claim that they distribute the stuff in a uniform manner and:

- the unit price they charge is broadly same UK or Ireland
- they have no control over what the end user price ends up being
- they were not aware there was this degree of markup differential going on (200-300%)

So concluding....what I know already is:
that the price in Ireland is massively different to the UK
this price in Ireland seems broadly the same in Ireland no matter who the Point Of Sale (vets, online)
the manufacturer claims it's all the same to them & they uniformly distribute UK or Ireland

hm? the only thing I can arrive at so far is blatant pure greed going on....that there is some kind of price inflation fixing scenario in play here & profiteering off the hard hit consumer is well and truly afoot.

AND I have a feeling that this doesn't stop at one product. So in my spare time over the next couple of weeks as I seek a solution to the dog's medy I hope to compile a spreadsheet of prices for various common treatment items for pets. Irish prices, UK prices online vs vet dispensary.

determined to get to the bottom of this!

tk123 · 16-01-2020 8:26pm

martco wrote: »

I wondered about this too...Tramadol is one of those ones that's possibly suitable but I wouldn't want to take the risk. I think in general the physiology of a dog's major organs in how they process/metabolise is very different to us so although you might think something should work it's a huge leap & could badly hurt your pet.

I wouldn't go there.

My dog has been on tramdol after surgery and another few times longer term when he was injured - well whatever the pet version was called - I can’t remember now it was that long ago. We laughed at the time because my mam had bruised ribs and they were both on the same dose lol! He started getting a bit spaced out on it so we stopped it and tried something something else. Some dogs do fine on it and some don’t. Some get relief from it and some don’t even though it’s been disproven for humans.

With any long term medicine they should be getting blood tests every 6 months btw to check their liver/kidneys function...

Graces7 · 17-01-2020 5:41am

OP; someone far wiser in these matters than I will ever be advises to try GERMANY for meds supplies. Makes sense..

tk123 · 17-01-2020 11:36am

martco wrote: »

determined to get to the bottom of this!

There's not really much to get to the bottom of as I'm sure your vet will confirm - their suppliers here have a huge markup in Ireland - which is why so many vets will print a prescription for clients. I needed a kidney supplement for Lucy - 180g is €60 here and I was able to get 300g for €30-35 online. That supplement wasn't a prescription medicine though so no issue getting it online. You'd probably save more time driving up the north with your prescription than compiling lists lol.

martco · 17-01-2020 1:30pm

tk123 wrote: »

There's not really much to get to the bottom of as I'm sure your vet will confirm - their suppliers here have a huge markup in Ireland - which is why so many vets will print a prescription for clients. I needed a kidney supplement for Lucy - 180g is €60 here and I was able to get 300g for €30-35 online. That supplement wasn't a prescription medicine though so no issue getting it online. You'd probably save more time driving up the north with your prescription than compiling lists lol.

Well....so who is lying? the vet or the distributor? Or is there another cog in the system I can't see?

See the manufacturer claims uniform pricing yet the Irish vets all* have varying degrees of hugely inflated pricing (so far it seems until I learn otherwise) going on.

Today I did a little experimenting. I made some phone calls. To try to learn more about the anatomy of the drugs dispensary for pets system.

I phoned 10 different vets around the country. Cork, Wexford, Wicklow, Galway, Midlands.

I stated that I have a valid current prescription & could they dispense please & what was the price? Kept the conversation simple, I just asked 3 questions.

Price
Mechanics of the transaction (can I take my prescription issued by a vet & have it dispensed wherever I like or not)
Could they suggest an alternative seeing as how this one is becoming unaffordable

Price: varied a bit but all miles over the top, ranged from €55 per bottle (4x difference) at top end to €41.80 at the bottom end. Exact same bottle, brand. (UK price range between STG£9 & £11)

Mechanics: very interesting responses. one fella attacked me from the off. another contradicted himself when explaining how it all works (he'd started by saying you can only have meds dispensed by the vet that has seen the animal 1:1 when I pointed out simply that the system was not alike that for humans where we can take our prescriptions to our favoured local pharmacist to dispense the product he get into a right twist.
most were ok for me to send the prescription in to them & dispense without having to see the dog.
one more friendly lady was at the other end of the spectrum - knew of the issue of meds pricing, thought it was really bad as she felt it would actually cause harm by virtue of people not buying the meds the animal needs & suffering the results of that.

Alternative product: only one was knowledgable on that. in my particular scenario I know of 3 different manufacturers for the same drug. All can be bought in the UK. Interestingly the only one to confirm an alternative product when asked was the friendly lady mentioned above (which I will pursue as it's same price I'm used to paying when buying in UK)

upon a little more googling I've come across other islands of threads where people long before me have been discussing this issue

there's something seriously wrong here

will look into the Germany suggestion

Graces7 · 17-01-2020 4:01pm

a small memory... I needed help for a dangerouslthunder phobic collie. It was an emergency situation. What they sold me worked well. AFter I had moved much further away from the border ( cork! ) I needed the same but was told that they do not use this in Southern Ireland, and that it was only as I was at a vet very near the border that I had got it. And that they had nothing similar they could /would prescribe.

Crossing to the UK might be the answer? heads against brick walls hurt!

Alun · 17-01-2020 5:01pm

While the manufacturer might sell the product to distributors in the UK and Ireland at the same, or similar, prices, the distributor takes their cut, and doubtless the vet does as well. I'd be very interested to see what the markups are in both cases, but doubt I'd ever be able to find out. Any time I've broached the subject with our vet they've become very defensive all of a sudden which suggests to me that they've got something to hide.

tk123 · 17-01-2020 6:21pm

Alun wrote: »

While the manufacturer might sell the product to distributors in the UK and Ireland at the same, or similar, prices, the distributor takes their cut, and doubtless the vet does as well. I'd be very interested to see what the markups are in both cases, but doubt I'd ever be able to find out. Any time I've broached the subject with our vet they've become very defensive all of a sudden which suggests to me that they've got something to hide.

I think the vet told me it was at least 60%(!)

The Hound Gone Wild · 17-01-2020 9:10pm

Any script written by an Irish registered vet is valid in any Irish Pharmacy. Drop into your Pharmacist and see how much they can source it for. I'll have a look tomorrow if it's available from the 2 major suppliers to pharmacies.

As an aside, it is an offence against the state to import medicines without a license. Keep it in mind.

17-01-2020 9:19pm

My pool cat has bone cancer, so I gave to fork out on Loxicam. Won’t be for too king, unfortunately. But the good thing is, that for the present time, it’s keeping him in great form and he’s not limping.

em_cat · 17-01-2020 9:41pm

Just be aware that Tramadol is an opiate analgesic only where as Loxicom is both an anti inflammatory & analgesic which partly is a reason for the expense.

OP ask your vet if a generic is available, I know there is one for humans so it may be that there is one for animals.

Graces7 · 18-01-2020 6:51am

What is it about Ireland? A similar situation with the costs of eg aspirin, ibuprofen?

I have a friend in the US who gets these very inexpensively in Walmart and sends me bags of them. No issues with customs and she puts them on the customs label. Other meds eg Solpadeine, that are made in Ireland, are very cheap overseas too but a horrendous cost here.

Graces7 · 18-01-2020 6:53am

((HUGS))

Deleted User wrote: »

My pool cat has bone cancer, so I gave to fork out on Loxicam. Won’t be for too king, unfortunately. But the good thing is, that for the present time, it’s keeping him in great form and he’s not limping.

harr · 18-01-2020 8:49am

When our lad got old ( gone now unfortunately) and he was on various meds we got most from chemist local. The meds our pharmacist could not get he made from the human alternative just by changing doses and tweaking ingredients a little.
For some of the meds the vet was charging nearly 3 times the amount. Speak to your local pharmacist . I know ours still supply a lot farming stuff but he is a small rural independent shop. The mans who runs must be in his 80,s and very knowledgeable for both humans and animals.

Hoboo · 18-01-2020 8:56am

Graces7 wrote: »

What is it about Ireland? A similar situation with the costs of eg aspirin, ibuprofen?

I have a friend in the US who gets these very inexpensively in Walmart and sends me bags of them. No issues with customs and she puts them on the customs label. Other meds eg Solpadeine, that are made in Ireland, are very cheap overseas too but a horrendous cost here.

We are a captive market. It's across the board, they even tried to charge us for water at one stage.

Mooooo · 18-01-2020 9:05am

Loxicom is an anti inflammatory as well as a pain killer. Many pharmacies in rural towns stock prescription meds for animals so shop around. It can also come in larger bottles but vets may be reluctant to give that out. Vets that cater for large animals also may have better pricing occasionally. I'm surprised it can be given over a long period because afaik in cows if given too often it can cause liver issues, but of course cow's and dogs are very different. Legislation is likely to get more strict for any of these meds so it's possible ordering from abroad may be stopped and more treatments may fall into prescription only categories

The Hound Gone Wild · 18-01-2020 6:59pm

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

Any script written by an Irish registered vet is valid in any Irish Pharmacy. Drop into your Pharmacist and see how much they can source it for. I'll have a look tomorrow if it's available from the 2 major suppliers to pharmacies.

As an aside, it is an offence against the state to import medicines without a license. Keep it in mind.

Update.

28 Moloxicam 15mg are around €12 on prescription. They are crushable so you can crush them and mix with 10ml of water and dose out from there.

The reason the suspension is so expensive is it falls under the category of unlicensed in Ireland so it "harder" to source.

Speak to your Vet about getting a script for the tablets and then to your Pharmacist about making an equivalent dose from the tabs.

Hope this helps.

Springwell · 18-01-2020 11:27pm

Vets in Ireland cannot shop around - the way HPRA regulation works means they must buy from certain registered/licensed distributors/wholesalers and therefore prices are whatever the wholesaler wants.

The large online pharmacies have much lower overheads and buy in massive amounts allowing bulk discounts. They don't have the vet premise/staff overheads and so can undercut vet practices.

Tootsie_1 · 18-01-2020 11:37pm

martco wrote: »

help!

I have a choc Lab who's getting on in life and is on a permanent (for the forseeable) prescription for Loxicom.

Having the Loxicom dispensed at our current (albeit very competent, nice and all) vet is for some reason horrendously expensive, unaffordable. I know this as for the last 2 years now I've been happily ordering it online from UK based pharmacies for 1/3 the price to the parcel motel. He's seen every 6 months by our vet & and we always supply the correct issued prescription when ordering.

Anyway, now he's due again but on this latest attempt to order something (Brexit?) has changed....I've had refusals from the usual pharmacy citing a "change in procedures" & having tried all the other UK guys I have had variations in response but there seems to be a pattern - they now refuse to process prescriptions issued outside the UK citing the "RVCS register"

I can't afford the price this vet is charging, he's on a decent dose.

so my question is this: given I have to purchase meds for the dog is there any method to obtain them outside of the Vet that is seeing the dog/issued the prescription? as per human world, why can't I shop around for my dispensed drugs

thanks

Pharmacy can dispense off a vets prescription once the drug is actually available for them to order you could go get a price from a few different shops, where are you based ?

Graces7 · 19-01-2020 2:35pm

Being English. . we have always paid Water Rates...

But our OTC meds are far cheaper

Hoboo wrote: »

We are a captive market. It's across the board, they even tried to charge us for water at one stage.

tk123 · 21-01-2020 4:47pm

Bailey's prescription dispatched from VioVet no probs...

Pharmacy for animals..is there such a thing in Ireland? (like a Boots for pets?)

Comments