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Mental health

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  • 08-09-2019 8:09am
    #1
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭


    Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

    Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

    Why is it so bad here?


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    #2
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Being quick to hand out medication doesn't mean treatment is good.

    It's often one of the worst things about medical treatment in America, because they can be on commission


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    #3
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

    Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

    Why is it so bad here?
    But they don't stop you being allowed to be armed to the teeth with guns etc.


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    #4
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

    Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

    Why is it so bad here?

    The fact that so many are receiving treatment, as you claim, suggests they have worse mental health.

    But, more to the point, you will get zero mental health support in the US if you do not have medical insurance to cover it. There are huge numbers with mental health issues in the US who are getting no assistance. I've no idea where you got the notion that they are quick to hand out medication. In fact you might tell us your sources for this.


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    #5
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

    Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

    Why is it so bad here?

    Your post is a grossly inaccurate pastiche of mental health care here. Would like to see your sources? Are you recounting personal experience or just picking on eg scandals/failures such as can occur in every system? Or are misunderstood.

    You need to be personally involved to know the real picture.

    Medication is often a quick " fix" that does not work. Not an indication of good care. Like a sticking plaster on a gaping wound,

    Maybe have a look at the Long Term Illness forum thread on anxiety and depression here on boards. ie for a more accurate view


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    #6
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite

    I have never been to the US but my understanding is that health insurance is beyond the reach of many and without it there is little chance of medical treatment of any kind.


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    #7
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

    Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

    Why is it so bad here?

    Its bad here. I can think of countless instances of lives being lost after people being turned away which is truly shocking. I tried to get a family member who was threatening to take their life committed but because they had alcohol in their system it was immediatly dismissed. I even had a voice recording.

    Joke of a country. Sure we will just continue to suffer through the bull**** so.

    My opinion is the answer to good mental health is not in medication but moreso in learning new habits and behaviours. Good sleep, exercise and food. Know what works for you and more iportantly what does not work. Alcohol and social media in my case. A wide variety of meds are available in the US for profiteering. They have pharmacies the size of supermarkets.


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    #8
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Two tier system here the same as the US. If you have good insurance here you'll access excellent care quick enough. If you're on the public system then best of luck.


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    #9
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,907 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Two tier system here the same as the US. If you have good insurance here you'll access excellent care quick enough. If you're on the public system then best of luck.

    No, there’s absolutely no comparison between the Irish and US health systems. None.

    We do have a two tier system, but you actually get seen by the same people in both. The difference between the two is a matter of how long it takes to get seen, and how much extra attention you get. Public or private, you’ll get the same medications, and there’s no difference in cost for this meds. Over here if you don’t have private health insurance, things will be slower and more frustrating, but you will be treated.

    In the US, if you don’t have insurance, you’re in trouble. I worked with guy who was between jobs in the US (had been let go a month or so before and hadn’t started a new job yet). Most people get their health insurance through their employer (it in itself is waaaay more expensive than here), so he had no cover. He had what his housemate thought was a heart attack, so the housemate called an ambulance. He spent 3 days in hospital. Turns out, after a load of tests, it was a panic attack, not a heart attack. He got a bill for $25,000, which took him years to pay off when he got a job. Nothing remotely like that happens here.


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    #10
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,014 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Pretty much everywhere in the western world has better mental health facilities than the US.

    Probably the biggest barrier to getting mental health is the stigma attached to it, but that's obviously not specific to the US.

    As to treatment - pills and locking people up aren't the answer; and automatically resorting to such indicates a very poor and ignorant approach.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #11
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Its bad here. I can think of countless instances of lives being lost after people being turned away which is truly shocking. I tried to get a family member who was threatening to take their life committed but because they had alcohol in their system it was immediatly dismissed. I even had a voice recording.

    Joke of a country. Sure we will just continue to suffer through the bull**** so.

    My opinion is the answer to good mental health is not in medication but moreso in learning new habits and behaviours. Good sleep, exercise and food. Know what works for you and more iportantly what does not work. Alcohol and social media in my case. A wide variety of meds are available in the US for profiteering. They have pharmacies the size of supermarkets.

    None of which will prevent or treat serious mental illness ie depression, bi polar, schizophrenia etc.


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    #12
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    No, there’s absolutely no comparison between the Irish and US health systems. None.

    We do have a two tier system, but you actually get seen by the same people in both. The difference between the two is a matter of how long it takes to get seen, and how much extra attention you get. Public or private, you’ll get the same medications, and there’s no difference in cost for this meds. Over here if you don’t have private health insurance, things will be slower and more frustrating, but you will be treated.

    In the US, if you don’t have insurance, you’re in trouble. I worked with guy who was between jobs in the US (had been let go a month or so before and hadn’t started a new job yet). Most people get their health insurance through their employer (it in itself is waaaay more expensive than here), so he had no cover. He had what his housemate thought was a heart attack, so the housemate called an ambulance. He spent 3 days in hospital. Turns out, after a load of tests, it was a panic attack, not a heart attack. He got a bill for $25,000, which took him years to pay off when he got a job. Nothing remotely like that happens here.


    We have at least one fully private mental health hospital in Dublin. It would cost you thousands to go in without insurance. If you can't pony up the dough for that then as others have said in this thread, the chances of you being turned away in the public system are high.


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    #13
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Southwestsouth wrote: »
    I'm of the view that mental health problems are primarily caused by the repression of the "shadow" as Carl Jung described it, we then construct as ego to compensate and to try to become "good enough".

    Most people are starting off in a position of not being "good enough". They construct an ego in an attempt to a feeling of being "good enough". But through the ego you will never be satisfied, there will always be something else to chase for the ego because no matter how much validation your ego gets, it doesn't address the underlying shadow self which you have repressed and feel guilty about. The solution is the accept your shadow self no matter how ugly you think it is.


    :rolleyes:


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    #14
    FanadMan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭FanadMan


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

    Not in my case, or in a lot of other cases I know of. Maybe the HSE mental health is a lot better up here in Donegal. Very quick to see a consultant and handed to therapy with continuing medication checks.

    In my case I was on medical card. Was working in NI but living in the Republic so was entitled to it.....thankfully cos I had no medical insurance.


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    #15
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

    Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

    Why is it so bad here?

    Have you had treatment for mental health issues in both Ireland and the US?

    Medication is only like a crutch for a broken leg. For the most part, it'll only help you while the real curing work goes on. In some cases, it is a permanent need but it should always be started with a view to being temporary and never forgoing more appropriate treatment just because you are on meds.


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    #16
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Have you had treatment for mental health issues in both Ireland and the US?

    Medication is only like a crutch for a broken leg. For the most part, it'll only help you while the real curing work goes on. In some cases, it is a permanent need but it should always be started with a view to being temporary and never forgoing more appropriate treatment just because you are on meds.

    If only your correct ideas were carried out.


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    #17
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

    Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

    Why is it so bad here?

    There are 13.7 suicides per 100,000 people in the US.

    In Ireland it's almsot half that at 7.2.

    Throwing medication at and locking people up doesn't seem to be doing much good.


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    #18
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    mr_fegelien wrote:
    Why is it so bad here?


    We have decided that dangerous economic policies such as austerity are actually good for us


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    #19
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,078 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

    Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

    Why is it so bad here?

    As a psychiatrist told us if everyone who said they were going to kill themselves was hospitalised there would be alot of mental health hospitals. It's the ones who don't tell you they want to kill themselves that you should be worried about


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    #20
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    whelan2 wrote: »
    As a psychiatrist told us if everyone who said they were going to kill themselves was hospitalised there would be alot of mental health hospitals. It's the ones who don't tell you they want to kill themselves that you should be worried about

    I think you're overestimating how easy it is to get involuntarily committed in Ireland. It's very hard. I know of one case and that was because the guy had previous mental issues and was off his head on PCP or speed. The Gardai and ambulance personnel had to restrain him.

    Here unless you're under 18, saying your suicidal won't garner any reaction from people. Once your an adult, people really don't care.


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    #21
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,361 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    I think you're overestimating how easy it is to get involuntarily committed in Ireland. It's very hard. I know of one case and that was because the guy had previous mental issues and was off his head on PCP or speed. The Gardai and ambulance personnel had to restrain him.

    Here unless you're under 18, saying your suicidal won't garner any reaction from people. Once your an adult, people really don't care.

    Why would you wan to be addmited what would it do for you?


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dayana Important Neanderthal wrote: »
    The fact that so many are receiving treatment, as you claim, suggests they have worse mental health.

    Does that risk assuming that every treatment offered is warranted?

    The opposite might be true. They might have better mental health than us - but have a health system more prone to prescribing treatment people do not actually need.

    I would be very very hesitant to make any kind of link between the number of people in the US with mental health issues - and the number of people in the US being medicated for mental health issues.


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    #23
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,078 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    I think you're overestimating how easy it is to get involuntarily committed in Ireland. It's very hard. I know of one case and that was because the guy had previous mental issues and was off his head on PCP or speed. The Gardai and ambulance personnel had to restrain him.

    Here unless you're under 18, saying your suicidal won't garner any reaction from people. Once your an adult, people really don't care.

    I was just repeating what the psychiatrist told us. I know only too well how hard it is to get someone involuntary committed unfortunately


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    #24
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Your post is a grossly inaccurate pastiche of mental health care here. Would like to see your sources? Are you recounting personal experience or just picking on eg scandals/failures such as can occur in every system? Or are misunderstood.

    You need to be personally involved to know the real picture.

    Medication is often a quick " fix" that does not work. Not an indication of good care. Like a sticking plaster on a gaping wound,

    Maybe have a look at the Long Term Illness forum thread on anxiety and depression here on boards. ie for a more accurate view

    Same guy had a thread in the last week or so complaining that the doctor wouldn't hand him out benzos.


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    #25
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Does that risk assuming that every treatment offered is warranted?

    The opposite might be true. They might have better mental health than us - but have a health system more prone to prescribing treatment people do not actually need.

    I would be very very hesitant to make any kind of link between the number of people in the US with mental health issues - and the number of people in the US being medicated for mental health issues.

    That's kind of the point I was making to the OP's unfounded belief that they were better because they hand out meds more readily, which they don't anyway.


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    #26
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Same guy had a thread in the last week or so complaining that the doctor wouldn't hand him out benzos.

    I know; he has the same theme running through all his threads in various disguises, poor guy....


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    #27
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    They hand out SSRIs like smarties.


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    #28
    Redneck Reject
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Redneck Reject


    In the US, if your a veteran, that's all the VA does is hand out dope to the point you can't function. I'd rather have techniques to deal with my PTSD than be handed a cocktail of drugs.


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    #29
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    They hand out SSRIs like smarties.

    SSRI's are bull**** though. They don't really work, take too long to work, or work only on certain people.

    Things like benzos/sleeping pills work immediately.


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    #30
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    SSRI's are bull**** though. They don't really work, take too long to work, or work only on certain people.

    Things like benzos/sleeping pills work immediately.

    benzos are evil. ditto many sleeping pills. habit forming ie addictive after 6 days an murder to get off

    ssris are safer.


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    #31
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Redneck Reject wrote: »
    In the US, if your a veteran, that's all the VA does is hand out dope to the point you can't function. I'd rather have techniques to deal with my PTSD than be handed a cocktail of drugs.

    agree totally. I was around when tranx were first being used. they called them chemical straitjackets and it let them close the big hospitals down in the UK . You never actually got better. Just more doped. zombies... shudders!


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