Commonly believed historical inaccuracies

whisky_galore wrote: »

In spite of several memorials and at least one popular song, you would be lead to believe Ireland had more sympathy for the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War . . . .

Interestingly, I have never been led to believe this, or met anyone who appears to believe this.

Perhaps the commonly-believed inaccuracy is not that "Ireland had more sympathy for the republican side", but that "it is widely believed that Ireland had more sympathy for the republican side"!

Not historical but a fable that has been turned into fact, I once heard a mother telling her daughter that women have more ribs than men, I corrected her but she was adamant that it was because God used Adams rib to make eve. I don't know if she ever learned the truth but she was passing the misinformation on to the next generation.

silliussoddius wrote: »

What is current thinking of what happened them?

it was shakespeare that made up the story

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

A common American misconception, that WW2 started in 1941.

A common European one is that it started in 1939.
Most east Asians would give 1937.

Widdensushi wrote: »

Not historical but a fable that has been turned into fact, I once heard a mother telling her daughter that women have more ribs than men, I corrected her but she was adamant that it was because God used Adams rib to make eve. I don't know if she ever learned the truth but she was passing the misinformation on to the next generation.

But strangely cervical ribs (or extra ribs) are much more common in women than men and agenesis (being born with one less rib) is more common in men.

gozunda wrote: »

The claim that the hull number assigned to the Titanic by its shipbuilders, Harland and Wolff, was 3909 04; a number which, when written longhand and viewed as a mirror image, spelled out the words ‘NO POPE’.

This despite the fact was that the hull number painted on the ship is known to have been 401, the same as its yard number at Harland and Wolff, and its assigned Board of Trade number was 131,428.

There was no "pope" at all...

This is a gold mine of myths and exaggerations; exchanged identity with sister ship Olympic and deliberately wrecked, a cursed mummy case allegedly on board, man dressed as a woman getting into a lifeboat, many photos purporting to be RMS Titanic are of its near identical sister.

Like "grandad fighting in the GPO" family story, there's lots of family legends of relatives who bought a ticket but didn't travel.

saabsaab wrote: »

I was told that this actually happened. A group were planning to travel to Dublin for the rising but all the buses were cancelled by the British!

A ticket for the Titanic I meant.

whisky_galore wrote: »

In spite of several memorials and at least one popular song, you would be lead to believe Ireland had more sympathy for the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War but the reverse was actually true at the time.
Many more Irishmen were prepared to fight for Franco than for the Republicans but that uncomfortable fact is largely forgotten today.

Franco had the Catholic Church on his side, so they were feeding information about the republicans murdering clergy etc to recruit people in ireland. Not sure about the numbers, but I know that oduffy did round up an squadron that were largely an embarrassment to franco as they were so incompetent.

Isn't there a story that the original source of the assertion that the USA was named after Amerigo Vespucci retracted the assertion in the second edition of the book, but the original edition was the one sent out far and wide, copied and circulated.

Despite the assertion being contradicted as untrue in all subsequent editions, the myth stuck.

I very much like this story that it is in fact, named after a Welsh customs official.

Biggest one promoted by the Irish and British media in recent times :

Irish WW1 veterans were mistreated on return

In reality, most voted for SF and voted for freedom, the British government refused to treat Irish volunteers equally in terms of rank in the trenches and executed much higher numbers.

Best IRA fighters were in the British army

They were lied to regarding home rule and humiliated by fighting for Britain

It was the FF and the deValera government who had to pay the pensions of the WW1 veterans, as the British would not


Secondly, myth WW1 had anything to do with Prussian militarism or Belgian freedom

Thirdly, that Irish who fought for Britain in the second world war were targeted as traitors :

1) Britain had plans to invade Ireland in 1940 and set up a British dictator to rule - like Germany in Poland

2) The Irish who deserted the Irish defence forces to the British army, usually due to pay, were deliberately treated leniently.

They had a tokenistic temporary blacklisting from the civil service

Other countries executed deserters (especially if they joined an enemy)

They deserted their posts - a hanging offence in the military - those who joined directly to the British army were never touched - media like to imply this

The British who perpetuated this myth actually arrested people up until the 1970s for desertion, even if desertion was to the US army (as they got paid more)

3) Interestingly, Churchill spread a lie that German navy were refuelling on the west coast in Ireland since 1914, it was pointed out to him that that area was under British occupation then, so was not actually possible - man was a clown

This has been spread more recently online by the White supremacist site Stormfront

Last one, is the historical inaccuracy of saying the Irish sent to the Caribbean were not slaves, despite fitting the definition of slavery

Any argument arguing against that , is usually just semantics, facetious and hypocritical

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Biggest one promoted by the Irish and British media in recent times :

Irish WW1 veterans were mistreated on return

In reality, most voted for SF and voted for freedom, the British government refused to treat Irish volunteers equally in terms of rank in the trenches and executed much higher numbers.

Best IRA fighters were in the British army

They were lied to regarding home rule and humiliated by fighting for Britain

It was the FF and the deValera government who had to pay the pensions of the WW1 veterans, as the British would not


Secondly, myth WW1 had anything to do with Prussian militarism or Belgian freedom

Thirdly, that Irish who fought for Britain in the second world war were targeted as traitors :

1) Britain had plans to invade Ireland in 1940 and set up a British dictator to rule - like Germany in Poland

2) The Irish who deserted the Irish defence forces to the British army, usually due to pay, were deliberately treated leniently.

They had a tokenistic temporary blacklisting from the civil service

Other countries executed deserters (especially if they joined an enemy)

They deserted their posts - a hanging offence in the military - those who joined directly to the British army were never touched - media like to imply this

The British who perpetuated this myth actually arrested people up until the 1970s for desertion, even if desertion was to the US army (as they got paid more)

3) Interestingly, Churchill spread a lie that German navy were refuelling on the west coast in Ireland since 1914, it was pointed out to him that that area was under British occupation then, so was not actually possible - man was a clown

This has been spread more recently online by the White supremacist site Stormfront

Just reading about Ulster Bank today.
In WW2 if an employee left to join the British forces your job was kept for you.
If you joined the Free State Army it was not.

magicbastarder wrote: »

unless people start quoting (reputable) sources, i'm pretty much at the point where i think this thread is being used to peddle the very opinions it was set up to chop down.

I agree M but looking through the posts there's a huge percentage of them without quotes but still making claims.

I think it's fair to say that the quote issue was only brought up when it arose from one side of the political fence. That's something we can't do.

That Hill 16 in Croke Park was built using the rubble from the destroyed buildings of the rising

Edgware wrote: »

Just reading about Ulster Bank today.
In WW2 if an employee left to join the British forces your job was kept for you.
If you joined the Free State Army it was not.

Anyone taking part in the 1916 rising was fired from the Guinness brewery and reported to the ric