The NPHET leakgate

Dempo1 · 08-10-2020 7:42am #1

What a disturbing turn of events, the country was led to believe Tony Holohan went Rouge and Leo goes on a now discredited rampage.

It's now abundantly clear NPHET did absolutely nothing wrong, the Minister for Health was fully informed a meeting was taking place, The Taoiseach was in turn advised, this on Saturday.

Minister Donnelly spoken to before meeting on Sunday and advised of serious concerns NPHET had. The meeting ends at 3.30pm Sunday, Minister Donnelly spoken to again about conclusions of said meeting. Letter sent through formal channels & Taoiseach informed, followed by Leo and Eamonn Ryan.

Roll on Monday and Taoiseach, Leo express, shock, horror, dismay at not being fully briefed, Donnelly goes into hiding. A very dilberate undermining of NPHET commences and in particular Tony Holohan. The entire day taken up with panic, worry, concern and now it appears not because of anything NPHET did but actually because of Government stoking conspiracy Theories.

Taoiseach announces to the nation, Level 3 decided upon, still giving an impression NPHET were very naughty. Later that evening Donnelly continues the conspiracy not once admitting all of the leaders and he knew on Sunday what was going on.

Then the disgraceful and now clearing wrong outburst by Leo who persisted in the dillusion NPHET were at fault, no communication was offered and was particularly nasty and personal whilst filleting Tony Holohan.

So after 2 full days of absolute dishonesty, shameful discrediting of NPHET & Tony Holohan, is it time for Leo to Go. Its going to be fireworks today. Whatever your Political leaning, this is an appalling state of affairs, no wonder the country on tendethooks.

Balmed Out · 08-10-2020 7:47am

Did nphet not announce they were recommending going to level 5 rather than advising the government privately. If so that was very wrong and was them engaging in games with the government.

smelly sock · 08-10-2020 7:50am

I think communication between ENPHET and the Govt. is poor anyway.

We will end up at level 5 very soon. Tony Holohan is a bit of a loose cannon but he is correct on this one.

barryribs · 08-10-2020 7:50am

Balmed Out wrote: »

Did nphet not announce they were recommending going to level 5 rather than advising the government privately. If so that was very wrong and was them engaging in games with the government.

My understanding is that nphet recommended going to level 5 directly to the government privately and this was leaked after the recommendation was made.
It's FF though, so I just read the news rather than waiting for them to announce anything.

Gooey Looey · 08-10-2020 7:51am

Balmed Out wrote: »

Did nphet not announce they were recommending going to level 5 rather than advising the government privately. If so that was very wrong and was them engaging in games with the government.

Did they? Wasn't it the media that said that?

Dempo1 · 08-10-2020 7:51am

Balmed Out wrote: »

Did nphet not announce they were recommending going to level 5 rather than advising the government privately. If so that was very wrong and was them engaging in games with the government.

As more clearly reported now, the Minister for Health spoken to before and after meeting on Sunday, Holohan clearly saying all concerns shared with the Minister and Letter sent. Taoiseach immediately contacted who in turn contacted Leo & Ryan. Its now abundantly clear all knew full well on Sunday, Level 5 was being recommended. It is just not credible to suggest they were not, this makes Mondays behaviour by them all, the more outrageous and disgraceful.

Wanderer78 · 08-10-2020 7:51am

The economy is more important than......

VinLieger · 08-10-2020 7:53am

Im not sure exactly who knew what and when yet as there doesnt seem to be any confirmed timeline of events, however NPHET leaking the level 5 recommendation on sunday evening was still an awful idea, it should have been discussed and prepped by government fully before going anywhere near the public.

Balmed Out · 08-10-2020 7:53am

My understanding was nphet leakef it on Sunday to try to force tge government's hand. Hope your right as that would be very poor behaviour which led to a lot of panic on Monday.
I dont believe its nphets role to inform the public what they recommend to government, i dont think they had done so before and in doing so they were beyond their remit. The government have to weigh up more than just the health aspects.

crisco10 · 08-10-2020 7:55am

Dempo1 wrote: »

As more clearly reported now, the Minister for Health spoken to before and after meeting on Sunday, Holohan clearly saying all concerns shared with the Minister and Letter sent. Taoiseach immediately contacted who in turn contacted Leo & Ryan. Its now abundantly clear all knew full well on Sunday, Level 5 was being recommended. It is just not credible to suggest they were not, this makes Mondays behaviour by them all, the more outrageous and disgraceful.

Is the issue more about the leak though? Not the output of the meeting and internal comms of that.

Wouldn't surprise me if leak was governmental though..

Dempo1 · 08-10-2020 7:55am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The economy is more important than......

I agree but that's not the point here, there was a persistent attempt to undermine NPHET and Holohan. The Taoiseach could have released a statement saying advice had been received but for now Level 3 preferable. To permit the disgraceful events continue for almost 2 days is just disgraceful.

Wanderer78 · 08-10-2020 7:58am

Dempo1 wrote:

I agree but that's not the point here, there was a persistent attempt to undermine NPHET and Holohan. The Taoiseach could have released a statement saying advice had been received but for now Level 3 preferable. To permit the disgraceful events continue for almost 2 days is just disgraceful.

I'd imagine nphet is beginning to struggle to be heard, you can see the governments attention is moving more towards the economy now, this was always gonna happen, I suspect nphet is gonna continue to struggle from here on in, this could get messy

Dempo1 · 08-10-2020 8:00am

crisco10 wrote: »

Is the issue more about the leak though? Not the output of the meeting and internal comms of that.

Wouldn't surprise me if leak was governmental though..

Yes agreed but the leak was not a leak as such, the info was shared by a government minister to all the party leaders. If it were a leak as such, it was infact leaking the truth and its now abundantly clear the leak was not of NPHET "s doing. My issue is how it was spun and why the lies continued right up till Monday night with Leo's outrageous attacks on Monday night when he knew about level 5 on Sunday night as shared through appropriate channel. He persisted in representing a narrative that NPHET made no effort to share or communicate their concerns.

Bishop of hope · 08-10-2020 8:01am

Public apathy has become the driver of the virus.
Doesn't matter as much as in the beginning anyway.
People drive the virus not the govt.

Dempo1 · 08-10-2020 8:03am

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Did they? Wasn't it the media that said that?

They announced nothing, it was government ministers spinning out of control from a leak not created by NPHET.

noodler · 08-10-2020 8:05am

Dempo1 wrote: »

As more clearly reported now, the Minister for Health spoken to before and after meeting on Sunday, Holohan clearly saying all concerns shared with the Minister and Letter sent. Taoiseach immediately contacted who in turn contacted Leo & Ryan. Its now abundantly clear all knew full well on Sunday, Level 5 was being recommended. It is just not credible to suggest they were not, this makes Mondays behaviour by them all, the more outrageous and disgraceful.

No, it wasn't at all clear level five was going to be recommended.

Dempo1 · 08-10-2020 8:06am

crisco10 wrote: »

Is the issue more about the leak though? Not the output of the meeting and internal comms of that.

Wouldn't surprise me if leak was governmental though..

Sadly its turning out the leak may have actually been a government minister. What disgusts me is the impression then given all day Monday the leaders were not fully briefed. They were, Donnelly not only advised meeting to take place as early as Saturday, he in turned advised Taoiseach, Donnelly spoken to again before and after meeting Sunday and again all leaders notified Sunday afternoon.

sydthebeat · 08-10-2020 8:06am

NPHET don't do public announcements

They are a government advisory group

JMNolan · 08-10-2020 8:08am

noodler wrote: »

No, it wasn't at all clear level five was going to be recommended.

Agreed, in fact any comment I see is that NPHET "expressed their concerns". No mentioned or suggestion by anyone that over the weekend NPHET suggested to the government to move to level 5 restrictions. That is the crux of the issue, who leaked the level 5?

VinLieger · 08-10-2020 8:09am

JMNolan wrote: »

Agreed, in fact any comment I see is that NPHET "expressed their concerns". No mentioned or suggestion by anyone that over the weekend NPHET suggested to the government to move to level 5 restrictions. That is the crux of the issue, who leaked the level 5?

NPHET seemed to take responsibility for leaking Level 5 on monday didn't they?

Wanderer78 · 08-10-2020 8:11am

smelly sock wrote:

Yes for the best part.

So should we ban all of them, or something?

Dempo1 · 08-10-2020 8:14am

VinLieger wrote: »

NPHET seemed to take responsibility for leaking Level 5 on monday didn't they?

Absolutely not, if you listen back to the press conference the opposite is true. The leak was not from NPHET and Holohan went as far as to say the leaker did not share NPHET "s objectives.

The narrative seems to be the leak is the actual problem, it is not, it is the fact Government knew about the level 5 recommendations on Sunday and spent all day Monday denying it, topped of by Leo's disgraceful behaviour on Monday night.

Hello 2D Person Below · 08-10-2020 8:17am

Varadkar grandstanding in order to garner cheap support from the public?

I stand aghast.

He's a runaway train.

Wanderer78 · 08-10-2020 8:19am

Hello 2D Person Below wrote:

He's a runaway train.

Ah he's just not the sharpest, but you d be surprised how much support he got from such an act

Dempo1 · 08-10-2020 8:24am

Hello 2D Person Below wrote: »

Varadkar grandstanding in order to garner cheap support from the public?

I stand aghast.

He's a runaway train.

I can't see after this how he won't be encouraged to apologise.

Dempo1 · 08-10-2020 8:27am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Ah he's just not the sharpest, but you d be surprised how much support he got from such an act

Ironically yes, I heard some comments for Micheal Healy Rea which were hilla really. I genuinely get why business people would have supported Leo's childish outburst but it's now clear Leo wasn't concerned about them, he was more concerned about his own reputation and to date pretty shoddy performance since the new government formed.

Wanderer78 · 08-10-2020 8:30am

Dempo1 wrote:

Ironically yes, I heard some comments for Micheal Healy Rea which were hilla really. I genuinely get why business people would have supported Leo's childish outburst but it's now clear Leo wasn't concerned about them, he was more concerned about his own reputation and to date pretty shoddy performance since the new government formed.

Ah I wouldn't be bothered listening to the reas, life's too short, government typically is letting sme's out for the slaughter

JMNolan · 08-10-2020 8:31am

Dempo1 wrote: »

The narrative seems to be the leak is the actual problem, it is not, it is the fact Government knew about the level 5 recommendations on Sunday and spent all day Monday denying it, topped of by Leo's disgraceful behaviour on Monday night.

I have yet to see a news article from anyone that says the government knew of the level 5 recommendation. All the news and reporters say is that they knew of "concerns". It was the level 5 recommendation that panicked the country last sunday, not the fact NPHET was "concerned".

JMNolan · 08-10-2020 8:34am

Actually, here is the Irish Time

irish times wrote:

However, Dr Holohan confirmed on Wednesday evening that he had spoken with Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly on Sunday morning, before the meeting, and had shared his concerns and those of members of the team.

“We just discussed my concerns, the concerns I shared with him of the conversations I had had with a range of members of Nphet over the course of the preceding 24 hours,” he said.

Asked if he had indicated that a move to Level 5 could be in the offing, he said he wouldn’t pre-empt the outcome of the Nphet discussion “but I was very clear about the level of concern that I would have, and had”.

So government *didn't* know of level 5 recommendation. So, perhaps someone can explain it to me, how could the government have leaked the level 5 recommendation?

VinLieger · 08-10-2020 8:35am

Dempo1 wrote: »

The narrative seems to be the leak is the actual problem, it is not, it is the fact Government knew about the level 5 recommendations on Sunday and spent all day Monday denying it, topped of by Leo's disgraceful behaviour on Monday night.

The leak is absolutely the problem because if it was from NPHET it was them as unelected advisors trying to force the governments hand but if it was from government it was them trying to make NPHET look bad and ultimately undermine public confidence in them.

smelly sock · 08-10-2020 8:36am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So should we ban all of them, or something?

No. Just be aware their motivations aren't always linked to public interests.

The NPHET leakgate

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