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19-11-2019, 23:41   #46
Mrs OBumble
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Originally Posted by meijin View Post
I've read the thread. It's not adequate if it's not working or it's still cold. Or he needs to learn how to use the storage heater correctly.
Nothing to say it's not working: the OP is complaining that it's expensive, but hasn't given us any detailed information, so we don't know if it's not being used due to perceived expense, or is being used incorrectly, or is actually expensive due to the overall energy rating of the building. I'm in a place with only storage heating, and I suspect little insulation. But it's top floor, so we get risking heat from other apartments. We turn on one small storage heater, and it's enough for the entire apartment for most of the year. Not expensive at all. IMHO.

And as you note, the legal requirement is for adequate heating and ventilation - there's no legal requirement for insulation. The only legal requirement is for a BER so that prospective tenants know what they're getting before moving in.
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20-11-2019, 08:24   #47
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Storage heating in fairness is a nightmare. If you're out working during the day your place is nice and toasty until you get home in the evening and its cooled down.
My old apartment was draughty and although it was first floor there were empty retail units beneath us, so we even had a layer of condensation on the floors at times if we didnt have the heating on.

At minimum I would be investing in better heaters that can be taken with me when I leave. The LL and management company clearly have no interest in taking this seriously, and I would rather spend an extra few quid on my electricity bill to be cosy than beat my head against a brick wall.
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20-11-2019, 08:35   #48
 
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Ireland's accomodation issues will eventually just undermine economic growth. I'm already aware of people opting to take jobs on the continent instead of both Dublin and Cork because of bad accommodation. It's not just the price, but the poor quality and lack of appropriate apartments.

Our building regs were terrible when many of those units were constructed and storage heaters are often useless. An apartment shouldn't be cold or damp or ludicrously expensive to maintain a proper temperature in.

I'd suggest actually getting the storage heating system checked out too. They can often have broken timers and be incorrectly configured.
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20-11-2019, 09:46   #49
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There is something often said here that its untrue.I am hearing people claim well regs were weak back then and they are good now so that is why many aparts are cold. This is often not the case. If you dig up a book written in the 1990s about Irish construction often talk about how builders would ignore best practiise. Likewise many brand new homes in 2019 are still constructed with design faults that have left them freezing. Other countries have better quality control on workmanship (its own profession in Germany). So the lesson is dont assume a cold old building meets regulations of the day and don't assume a brand new apartment will be warm.
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20-11-2019, 09:53   #50
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If you dig up a book written in the 1990s about Irish construction often talk about how builders would ignore best practiise.
There's best practice and there are building regulations.
Assuming building regulations left the house just about liveable, ignoring best practice combined with flouting building regs can make a house unlivable.
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20-11-2019, 10:54   #51
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Is there an online register somewhere to check when an apartment building was built?
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20-11-2019, 11:06   #52
kceire
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Is there an online register somewhere to check when an apartment building was built?
You can search the planning site to see when it got planning.
Get the reference number and then check the commencement notice register which gives you the exact start date.
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20-11-2019, 12:46   #53
Ray Palmer
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This is all very simple. The building regs determined the minimum standard of building at the time of construction. When renting you can see the BER to decide to rent or not that place. You cannot insist the landlord bring it to a higher standard.

The reason storage heaters are so prevalent is the building regs insist each household has control of their heating. That means no shared heating facilities are allowed thus developers put in what satisfied the regulation. There is no way the regulations will be changed for existing buildings.

That is it nothing else to discuss.
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20-11-2019, 12:53   #54
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easy to change regulations for existing buildings. You cannot make changes to your own house that affect more than 25% of its area without also bringing it up to b2 ber rating. Easy to say landlords have to bring all rentals up to a base rating within a given timeframe and fine them if they don't. Rents are sky high at the moment so they have the means to do it.

Last edited by blergh; 20-11-2019 at 22:28.
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20-11-2019, 12:57   #55
cnocbui
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I'm renting the apt. I'll look into those infra red heaters though. Thanks.
Hands down, the quickest and best way to heat a room in your situation are electric fan heaters. They are cheap to buy, efficient and very fast. Obviously their operating costs are more than some other options but those all require high capital investment.
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20-11-2019, 13:25   #56
 
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The reason storage heaters are and were so popular with developers was they’re significantly cheaper to install and had no legal requirements for regular maintenance, unlike gas. It’s as simple as that.

They’re often a very poor source of heat and you’d need to have a degree in thermodynamics to work out the controls on most of them, and that’s if they even work at all.

I found a lot of them are misunderstood to be just regular electric on demand heaters (especially by people who’ve never encountered them before and they’re unheard of outside of Ireland and Britain). So people don’t realise they’re supposed to charge over night and screw up the timers and so on.

A lot of people (most people) also have no idea what the input and output dials are or how you should set them. Often they’ll have the input and output set high, so the heater will charge over night and dump all its heat by lunch time. So you’ve a very hot house in the morning and no heat at all in the evenings.

Others have complicated fan assistance boosts and even day rate supplementary heating built in.

They’re insanely complicated to figure out. Maybe modern electronic controls might help, but you rarely see them.

My experience of them is they’re never maintained - broken dampers, damaged thermostats, damaged timers, often the heaters are full of lint too and they’re often completely misunderstood and incorrectly configured.

Also replacing the classic and ridiculous Irish or British immersion - An under sized, uninsulated cooper cylinder with a modern continental style super insulated larger unit (the ones that look about the size of a fridge freezer and are white exteriors) tends to mean you’ve adequate on demand hot water and massively reduces costs as they are like a thermos flask and don’t lose heat. How the hell anyone ever though the old fashioned immersion cylinder was an acceptable system is beyond me. You just lose all the heat to the “hot press”, which is why it’s so hot!

There’s a reason you hardly ever encounter storage heating in a house - no home owner would put up with it!

Last edited by Mezzotint; 20-11-2019 at 14:45.
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20-11-2019, 13:43   #57
kceire
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Day to change regulations for existing buildings. You cannot make changes to your own house that affect more than 25% of its area without also bringing it up to b2 ber rating. Easy to say landlords have to bring all rentals up to a base rating within a given timeframe and fine them if they don't. Rents are sky high at the moment so they have the means to do it.
Are you even remotely aware of how much it would cost to bring a typical D rated dwelling up to a B rating?

You cannot and should not retrospectively apply old regulations to home owners, private or landlords.
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20-11-2019, 13:49   #58
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Op lidl have convector heaters for e45 with timer, Digital thermostat and remote control ...
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20-11-2019, 13:52   #59
Idbatterim
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Are you even remotely aware of how much it would cost to bring a typical D rated dwelling up to a B rating?

You cannot and should not retrospectively apply old regulations to home owners, private or landlords.
The previous house I was In and being gouged for , didn’t have any attic insulation. Like this place. It’s taking the absolute piss. At the very least , decent loft insulation should be law. Very quick , cheap , non invasive and effective ...
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20-11-2019, 14:38   #60
 
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Apart from being gouged, it should be required from an environmental point of view. It's a massive waste of energy otherwise.
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