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RWC'15 Pool D: Ireland vs Italy, RWC. KO Sunday 4:45PM TV3/ITV1

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    This was Italy's first penalty around 13 minutes in.

    Yeah, you're right, for some reason I'd remembered this as later in the game - was it SOB who was pinged for one later? I remember that being much more unfair a call actually (but then my memory isn't very good as you can see).


  • Posts: 0 Shaun Sour Kiwi


    In this case Heaslip didn't go beyond the ball really, but what he did was illegal for the same reasons that going beyond the ball is. He was basically lying on Parisse and then scooped the ball back with his left hand. He used Parrise to keep himself off the ground, which is why it's illegal.

    This clarification wasn't made too late. It's always been illegal and is actually refereed more correctly in the Southern Hemisphere. BOD had a lot of trouble with it on the first test in the Lions tour in 2013. Now they're just ensuring it's refereed uniformly everywhere. It doesn't lead to more penalties, and it actually does speed up the game.

    There was a very noticeable change in the warm ups at the breakdown with the interpretation of two areas as I mentioned previously.

    The point I made wasn't that it doesn't speed up the game, I totally agree that it does, when people are accustomed to it. Would like to have seen this in the six nations and last seasons pro12 so that it's ingrained by the World Cup.

    I still think Heaslip was entitled to go for that ball, scoop and fall, totally legal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    He's off his feet tho, resting his body on the player below him. So it wasn't legal... It may have been let go, but at no stage was it legal.

    In fact, it's really the only thing that annoyed me about the game. We gave away silly, silly penalties which we normally would not. Not sure why our mindset switched there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    There was a very noticeable change in the warm ups at the breakdown with the interpretation of two areas as I mentioned previously.

    The point I made wasn't that it doesn't speed up the game, I totally agree that it does, when people are accustomed to it. Would like to have seen this in the six nations and last seasons pro12 so that it's ingrained by the World Cup.

    I still think Heaslip was entitled to go for that ball, scoop and fall, totally legal.

    If you watch it again (I'm just watching it now on the ITV player) you'll see he was definitely not entitled to it. He just wasn't supporting his own weight. It's close enough that if you're in the opposition half you could go for it, but not in your own 22.

    The change really hasn't had a negative effect on the breakdown. I'm just not seeing these extra penalties being given against defensive breakdown players that you're referring to. That penalty would have been given against Heaslip before anyway btw, that new ruling doesn't affect this either, that was just in reference to BOD.


  • Posts: 0 Shaun Sour Kiwi


    If you watch it again (I'm just watching it now on the ITV player) you'll see he was definitely not entitled to it. He just wasn't supporting his own weight. It's close enough that if you're in the opposition half you could go for it, but not in your own 22.

    The change really hasn't had a negative effect on the breakdown. I'm just not seeing these extra penalties being given against defensive breakdown players that you're referring to. That penalty would have been given against Heaslip before anyway btw, that new ruling doesn't affect this either, that was just in reference to BOD.

    I agree with you about the positioning of the attempted steal, very fair point.
    The breakdown interpretation was noticeably jarring in the warm ups, less so now but still a presence.

    As for the penalty, will agree to disagree. Still stand by my original argument that he was going off his feet at the time but still up when he ripped it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,742 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    .ak wrote: »
    He's off his feet tho, resting his body on the player below him. So it wasn't legal... It may have been let go, but at no stage was it legal.

    In fact, it's really the only thing that annoyed me about the game. We gave away silly, silly penalties which we normally would not. Not sure why our mindset switched there.

    Yeah that wound me up too. That, POMs ludicrously stupid yellow, Murray and POC playing for the penalty before POC knocked on (the one I actually really lost the rag with them on while watching it), SOB not releasing the player in our 22. There were just so many needless infringements and mistakes that cost us on the day.
    I agree with you about the positioning of the attempted steal, very fair point.
    The breakdown interpretation was noticeably jarring in the warm ups, less so now but still a presence.

    As for the penalty, will agree to disagree. Still stand by my original argument that he was going off his feet at the time but still up when he ripped it.

    He may have been on his feet but was he supporting his weight?

    Also, I thought that penalty was for hands on the ground. Didn't Heaslip play the ball on the ground rather than try to steal it or is my memory just crap?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Also, I thought that penalty was for hands on the ground. Didn't Heaslip play the ball on the ground rather than try to steal it or is my memory just crap?

    It was for not supporting his weight, at least according to Garces.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭WeleaseWoderick


    Just to throw the cat among the pigeons, here's the Fantasy Rugger scores for the Ireland team from Sunday's match (attached)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    Just to throw the cat among the pigeons, here's the Fantasy Rugger scores for the Ireland team from Sunday's match (attached)

    Peter O'Mahony scores the worst out of every player excluding Ross.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,815 ✭✭✭✭emmet02


    Just to throw the cat among the pigeons, here's the Fantasy Rugger scores for the Ireland team from Sunday's match (attached)
    WarZ wrote: »
    Peter O'Mahony scores the worst out of every player excluding Ross.

    Here's how those points are arrived at...

    PLAYER ACTION POINTS EARNED
    Tries 5
    Assists 3
    Scrum won on opposition 2
    Lineout Stolen 2
    Turnovers 1.5
    Defenders Beaten 1
    Successful Kick 1
    Clean Breaks 1
    Offloads 0.5
    Lineout Won 0.5
    Tackles Made 0.5
    Scrum Won on Own Feed 0.5
    Successful Lineout Throw 0.2
    Ruck won 0.1

    Tackles Missed -0.5
    Missed Kick -0.5
    Handling errors -0.5
    Penalties Conceded -1
    Scrum Lost on Own Feed -1
    Missed Lineout Throw -1
    Yellow Cards -3
    Red Cards -5


    And the stats .

    LAST 2 GAMES ITA CAN
    Tries 0 0
    Assists 0 0
    Defenders Beaten 3 5
    Offloads 0 1
    Turnovers 0 1
    Ruck won 8 11
    Tackles Made 3 7
    Metres Gained 0 0
    Clean Breaks 0 1
    Lineout Won 2 4
    Lineout Stolen 1 2

    Tackles Missed 0 0
    Yellow Cards 1 0
    Red Cards 0 0
    Handling errors 0 0
    Penalties Conceded 2 0


    The yellow card costs him plenty of points (as it removes minutes he could score points in too)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    emmet02 wrote: »
    Here's how those points are arrived at...

    PLAYER ACTION POINTS EARNED
    Tries 5
    Assists 3
    Scrum won on opposition 2
    Lineout Stolen 2
    Turnovers 1.5
    Defenders Beaten 1
    Successful Kick 1
    Clean Breaks 1
    Offloads 0.5
    Lineout Won 0.5
    Tackles Made 0.5
    Scrum Won on Own Feed 0.5
    Successful Lineout Throw 0.2
    Ruck won 0.1

    Tackles Missed -0.5
    Missed Kick -0.5
    Handling errors -0.5
    Penalties Conceded -1
    Scrum Lost on Own Feed -1
    Missed Lineout Throw -1
    Yellow Cards -3
    Red Cards -5


    And the stats .

    LAST 2 GAMES ITA CAN
    Tries 0 0
    Assists 0 0
    Defenders Beaten 3 5
    Offloads 0 1
    Turnovers 0 1
    Ruck won 8 11
    Tackles Made 3 7
    Metres Gained 0 0
    Clean Breaks 0 1
    Lineout Won 2 4
    Lineout Stolen 1 2

    Tackles Missed 0 0
    Yellow Cards 1 0
    Red Cards 0 0
    Handling errors 0 0
    Penalties Conceded 2 0


    The yellow card costs him plenty of points (as it removes minutes he could score points in too)

    Exactly. He is the second worst scoring player only marginally behind Ross. It speaks volumes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,833 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    If Ireland really has ambitions to win this WC, then throwing the game against France to have a go at the ABs next is the only sensible strategy.

    I hope Joe has the gumption and drive to go for this option. Settling for having a go at France to just improve our chances of getting further in the competition but with a lower chance of winningIf Ireland really has ambitions to win this WC, then throwing the game against France to have a go at the ABs next is the only sensible strategy.

    I hope Joe has the gumption and drive to go for this option. Settling for having a go at France to just improve our chances of getting further in the competition but with a lower chance of winning it would be chickening out. it would be chickening out.
    there would be a potential psychological block against the all blacks, but you are assuming Australia or SA wouldnt knock them out en-route to the finals...

    I dont think what you propose, is something Smyth will do, its like proposing the captain of the Titanic should have purposefully hit the iceberg head on, because the outcome might have been different. If it fails, you are gonna look like a total fool!

    I hope Joe has the gumption and drive to go for this option. Settling for having a go at France to just improve our chances of getting further in the competition but with a lower chance of winningIf Ireland really has ambitions to win this WC, then throwing the game against France to have a go at the ABs next is the only sensible strategy.
    maybe PSA is thinking the same thing...


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    there would be a potential psychological block against the all blacks, but you are assuming Australia or SA wouldnt knock them out en-route to the finals...

    I dont think what you propose, is something Smyth will do, its like proposing the captain of the Titanic should have purposefully hit the iceberg head on, because the outcome might have been different. If it fails, you are gonna look like a total fool!

    The captain of the Titanic should have hit the iceberg head on.

    Deliberately throwing the game against France would just be completely stupid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,833 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Deliberately throwing the game against France would just be completely stupid.
    there is logic to it, we are going to be in a better place to take them on after no difficult matches for our mains players, i.e. if we put out a weakened side v the French, than if we were to face them in the final after another two bruising encounters...


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    there is logic to it, we are going to be in a better place to take them on after no difficult matches for our mains players, i.e. if we put out a weakened side v the French, than if we were to face them in the final after another two bruising encounters...

    I would be absolutely disgusted if we threw the France game. Disgusted and embarrassed that the supposed favourites for the group would do that in the biggest competition in the sport. It is not even a slight option and anyone who thinks it is needs their heads rattled.
    Such a sad, loser attitude to take on. The team go out to win every game and they will believe they can beat anyone.

    Since Sunday this place has lost it's mind. Are we actually discussing throwing a game so we have to play New Zealand instead of Argentina!? Jesus christ


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Bridge93 wrote: »
    I would be absolutely disgusted if we threw the France game. Disgusted and embarrassed that the supposed favourites for the group would do that in the biggest competition in the sport. It is not even a slight option and anyone who thinks it is needs their heads rattled.
    Such a sad, loser attitude to take on. The team go out to win every game and they will believe they can beat anyone.

    Since Sunday this place has lost it's mind. Are we actually discussing throwing a game so we have to play New Zealand instead of Argentina!? Jesus christ

    Ah to be fair this place hasn't really lost it's mind, it's just attracted a few lost souls who may well have already lost their minds before coming here!

    The rest of us are all fine, very sane, perfectly fine...


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    there is logic to it, we are going to be in a better place to take them on after no difficult matches for our mains players, i.e. if we put out a weakened side v the French, than if we were to face them in the final after another two bruising encounters...

    No there isn't. There is absolutely no logic to it.

    It's complete nonsense and would only make sense if the only goal was beating NZ for some reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Not gonna lie I thought the throw the France game thing was a joke.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,913 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Not gonna lie I thought the throw the France game thing was a joke.

    It was a "The Rape of Lucretia" post, wasn't it? Definitely a joke.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,861 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    there would be a potential psychological block against the all blacks, but you are assuming Australia or SA wouldnt knock them out en-route to the finals...

    I dont think what you propose, is something Smyth will do, its like proposing the captain of the Titanic should have purposefully hit the iceberg head on, because the outcome might have been different. If it fails, you are gonna look like a total fool!


    maybe PSA is thinking the same thing...

    At this point I really wouldn't put it past PSA...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Idbatterim wrote: »

    I dont think what you propose, is something Smyth will do, its like proposing the captain of the Titanic should have purposefully hit the iceberg head on, because the outcome might have been different. If it fails, you are gonna look like a total fool!

    Who is Smyth?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Christy42 wrote: »
    At this point I really wouldn't put it past PSA...

    I don't think Pip has the wit to do it frankly. He has more limited ambitions, and just getting as far as he can is his mission.

    Joe though, is a different kettle of fish. He has the greater integrity, outside the box thinking, sporting drive, and rugby brainpower to realise that this could be the best way to lift the William. And whats more, the courage to carry it out and put the doubters in their boxes on the 31st.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Not gonna lie I thought the throw the France game thing was a joke.

    Of course it was. Come on lads.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    We have to build and build from here.

    We need a good win over France this weekend imo.

    It will be ugly, it will be bruising, there may be injuries.

    But we now have to stamp ourselves into this tournament.
    Everything coming from the camp this week is saying the same.
    The team are psyched, as supporters, we should also be psyched.

    Believe people!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    <<< Grabs tinfoil hat and popcorn!


    Some quality posts on this forum since the RWC started. Makes a debate on Chemtrails seem logical and plausible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    efb wrote: »
    Just win the game!!!

    Prophetic


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Murray Kinsella has done his rucking analysis for the Italian game.

    Jack McGrath heads the table for 1st arrivals to our own breakdown with 14 whilst Sean O'Brien is top of the charts for defensive rucks (14) well ahead of second placed Rory Best (5).

    Defensively though, we didn't do much other than be present at the ruck it seems. Out of 42 involvements, we had 2 turnovers, 3 slowing efforts and a turnover assist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Annabella1


    Earls plays better on the wing. Why move him when there is no need.

    Payne is our best 13 option. Has an excellent track record playing there for Ireland. Consistently. For the last 12 months. Provided he is fit there is no doubt in my mind that Payne 13 and Earls to the wing is the strongest selection.

    Why has this tread descended into denigrating players in a tit for tat? How about a discussion about the defensive system which gave the Italians a 20m run to our outside backs form every set piece?

    Yea agree I wonder how injured Payne was for his last game.Presume he sustained the bruised foot during Romania game


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    rrpc wrote: »
    Jack McGrath heads the table for 1st arrivals to our own breakdown with 14 whilst Sean O'Brien is top of the charts for defensive rucks (14) well ahead of second placed Rory Best (5).

    Defensively though, we didn't do much other than be present at the ruck it seems. Out of 42 involvements, we had 2 turnovers, 3 slowing efforts and a turnover assist.

    More evidence that SOB was excellent.


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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,913 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    I know nobody cares, but since I brought it up before in several match threads, I thought I would update you on the dreaded flag issue!

    After annoying people to death with my questions and frequently being told "why don't you just email the bloody IRFU is you're that curious!" I did.

    I asked them very politely, and very precisely, why they use an Ulster flag and not a Northern Ireland flag, and indeed why use two flags at all when they have the Four Provinces one.

    Here is the response I got.

    365019.png

    Which doesn't actually answer my question and implies they, or at least the guy answering their emails, doesn't know the difference between Ulster and Northern Ireland. So, I am none the wiser as to why they use the wrong flag but as nobody seems able to answer my question, or actually care, I shall stop asking, you'll be glad to hear. :D

    The End.


This discussion has been closed.
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