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We need to talk about Huawei...or do we?

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    #62
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    It appears Huawei are the ones pushing 5G in Ireland as well as many other locations (some mentioned in link below).

    Things seem to be going more in favour of Huawei now than previously ...
    Every Huawei interview and press briefing for month after month was a defense of their security record, an insistence that they don't spy for Beijing. But then Huawei pulled off a well-orchestrated PR masterstroke at MWC. And everything changed.

    Huawei’s rotating chairman, Guo Ping, used a keynote speech at the event and media follow-ups to turn defense into attack. “The Snowden leaks,” he said, “shone a light on how the NSA’s leaders were seeking to ‘collect it all’ - every electronic communication sent, or phone call made, by everyone in the world, every day. The more Huawei gear is installed in the world’s networks, the harder it becomes for NSA to ‘collect it all’. Huawei hampers U.S. efforts to spy on whomever it wants.”
    March 20th
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/20/did-the-u-s-just-lose-its-war-with-huawei/#20228ded19e7

    I wonder does it really matter to most of us who is listening to our comms ..... whether China or USA?
    Of course we do not want anyone listening ..... but is that practical these days?
    We would like to think so .....


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    #63
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    It looks like the Trump ban is having fairly serious implications for Huawei's supply chain.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-19/google-to-end-some-huawei-business-ties-after-trump-crackdown

    There's a lot of fuss about the Huawei mobile handsets, as they're consumer products, but there are serious implications for telcos. The VDSL gear used by OpenEir, BT in the UK, Deutsche Telekom and quite a lot of others uses Broadcom Inc chipsets for example, and there would be plenty of other hardware and licensed US technology that this ban covers.

    So far US companies : Intel Corp., Qualcomm Inc., Xilinx Inc. and Broadcom Inc., as well as Google/Alphabet shutting access to the full versions of Android.

    Several European manufacturers have also been mentioned: Infineon Technologies AG (Germany) STMicroelectronics NV (NL) and AMS AG (Austria). So, I would assume their products contain some components or software that may have licences that are subject to the ban.


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    #64
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    I always find it odd that people focus on BT in the UK but rarely if ever focus on the other telco's, I know when I worked for TalkTalk Group their LLU kit was Huawei kit in the exchanges. Because of the way they liked to cut costs I'm guessing they kept installing their kit for years. As TalkTalk group bought up numerous other telco's including AOL they have a very sizable LLU footprint in the UK.

    As for the USA's actions, even if somehow Huawei continue to produce equipment the fact they#ll loose Android and Google App integration in the long term means consumers will have little interest in them anymore, if the USA maintains their ban it'll be the nail in the coffin for Huawei consumer products.


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    #65
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    The only reason I'd focus on OpenEir and BT / OpenReach is that they're the suppliers of the largest wholesale FTTC networks, so will impact most end users.

    LLU isn't all that big a deal anymore due to VDSL2 and FTTC. So mostly people are using wholesale access products, not LLU.

    There may well be Huawei switches and routers in other companies' networks though.


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    #66
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    Cabaal wrote: »
    I always find it odd that people focus on BT in the UK but rarely if ever focus on the other telco's, I know when I worked for TalkTalk Group their LLU kit was Huawei kit in the exchanges. Because of the way they liked to cut costs I'm guessing they kept installing their kit for years.

    As for the USA's actions, even if somehow Huawei continue to produce equipment the fact they#ll loose Android and Google App integration in the long term means consumers will have little interest in them anymore, if the USA maintains their ban it'll be the nail in the coffin for Huawei consumer products.

    Yeah and the Huawei gear uses Broadcom chips. Broadcom are a US company......


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    #67
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    It will be interesting to see who eir have chosen to supply equipment for their urban FTTH project. They have previously been heavily reliant on Huawei.


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    #68
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    They've been entirely Huawei since the NGA trials ended. Current PON network is Huawei end to end. AFAIK SIRO is entirely the same.

    OpenEir is too far in to back out of using them. If the likes of Broadcom were to stop shipping parts to Huawei it could royally screw the supply chain for replacement parts.


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    #69
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    If what Marlow posted was correct they were certainly looking at other vendors at least.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109850388&postcount=8132


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    #70
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    As he says cheapest they can get, thats Huaweis ballpark.


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    #71
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Is there anything known that would be cause for concern?
    We all know the USA and partners are spying on everything they possibly can.
    We can safely assume the other major world players are doing the same.

    Is the suggestion that Google will refuse, worldwide, access to their services from Hauwei equipment and all comms via Hauwei equipment?
    Shoot in foot if so!

    If they hit consumers only (phones), then a serious proportion of those users will go elsewhere, rather than buy new phones.

    On the bright side ...... there might well be some great bargains to be had on barely used Hauwei phones from those changing. :D


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    #72
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Its not as much "You're Spying!" more "If your daddy tells you to shut down the internet in the west you will".

    The company is totally at the whim of the CP no matter what they'll say in pressers.


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    #73
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    ED E wrote: »
    Its not as much "You're Spying!" more "If your daddy tells you to shut down the internet in the west you will".

    The company is totally at the whim of the CP no matter what they'll say in pressers.

    How?


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    #74
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    They have the source, they know where to find holes created inadvertently or intentionally.


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    #75
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    ED E wrote: »
    They have the source, they know where to find holes created inadvertently or intentionally.

    You think this likely?
    Possible it might be .... in any way probable or likely I very much doubt.

    Unless of course Trump ups the ante quite a lot to the point of near war ..... then I could see it - IF they have that capability, and so far no one has shown they have it.


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    #76
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    I wouldn't say any of them are "in too deep". If push comes to shove, contracts get cancelled on the basis that they can't be fulfilled and someone else gets the contracts.

    The biggest issue that Huawei faces is that many of its larger and more recent customers are historically very conservative telcos. Huawei made a name for itself by supplying cheaper disrupters and then in relatively recent years got accepted by the establishment telcos.

    If you look at companies like Eir, or any older and established telco they rarely went beyond companies like Ericsson, Alcatel Lucent (now Nokia) etc.

    Eir mostly used Alcatel-Lucent DSLAMs for ADSL and the entire voice legacy network is Ericsson or Alcatel gear - They've largely had the same suppliers for decades, going back to the 1950s. Ericsson's around for as long as the telephone has been around and Alcatel absorbed various other companies like parts of ITT. P&T would have had equipment from various ITT companies e.g. Metaconta switches in the old days. So, they really did not stray very far beyond the Ericsson or Alcatel catalogues. Even the original FTTC trials in Dundrum and Sandyford were done with Alcatel gear before Huawei was ultimately selected, probably on cost.

    The significant expense in rolling out FTTx is the wiring and civil engineering. The supplier of DSLAMs, OLTs and so on could be changed without all that much fuss.

    From Huawei's point of view, this kind of disruption is hugely damaging to its business. Telcos being notoriously conservative will just drop them like a stone if they're unreliable. They will spend more rather than go for something that has no support or is subject to political chaos.

    Siro would probably be more exposed as they're doing turn-key projects where Huawei is actually delivering the entire network and seemingly even doing the wiring in Cork City.

    I would suspect that if this is a prolonged thing, Huawei is going to have to create a new entity that's totally independent of Chinese Government influence.

    If it got very bad, they might end up having to sell chunks of the company, so support could end up being via someone else.

    It's fairly clear that the US has calculated this move to do as much marketing damage as possible to Huawei.


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    #77
    turbbo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭turbbo


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    You think this likely?
    Possible it might be .... in any way probable or likely I very much doubt.

    Unless of course Trump ups the ante quite a lot to the point of near war ..... then I could see it - IF they have that capability, and so far no one has shown they have it.

    Not a nice thing to have to second guess though.


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    #78
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,990 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    turbbo wrote: »
    Not a nice thing to have to second guess though.

    True ..... of course we already know that the USA has the capability of screwing things up through their own means, so no second guessing there.

    I am unsure why we should be any more fearful of China/Hauwei than USA/<its lackeys>.

    This all seems like USA political/commercial aggression to me as no proof of anything has been made public.


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    #79
    turbbo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭turbbo


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    True ..... of course we already know that the USA has the capability of screwing things up through their own means, so no second guessing there.

    I am unsure why we should be any more fearful of China/Hauwei than USA/<its lackeys>.

    This all seems like USA political/commercial aggression to me as no proof of anything has been made public.

    Yeah the lack of respect in the western world for intellectual property by giving business to huawei is even worse imo.


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