Landlord selling house, year left on lease.

pooch90 · 06-10-2014 5:53pm #1

Hi all,
I know I've come across it before but I can't put my finger on the right info.

Basically, we are a year into a two year lease. LL has to put the house on the market. What are our rights in this situation?
We are a fixed term lease, not Part 4.

If the house sells, does our lease still stand until next year? Do new owners have to take us on as tenants or could they offer us re-location fees or something?

How much access do we need to give the estate agents? (LL is abroad so EA is contacting us directly). We have had the EA in last week to do photos and will be coming this week for a viewing with potential buyer. How often is reasonable? Not worried about now but if it were to happen every week, we'd get sick of it pretty quick.

Also, how do we stand with viewers looking in wardrobes/presses/drawers etc? Surely we still have the right to privacy?

We have no interest in making things difficult for our LL but we are not going to have people in and out constantly either.

Thanks in advance!

Aka Ishur · 06-10-2014 6:05pm

pooch90 wrote: »

Hi all,
I know I've come across it before but I can't put my finger on the right info.

Thanks in advance!

In short you do not have to allow any viewings and your lease will have to be honoured.

The best thing is to get talking to your land lord with a view to him buying you out or giving you a hefty discount on rent.

pooch90 · 06-10-2014 6:11pm

Only downside to that is that there is nowhere suitable to rent at the minute locally, so it's not in our interest to get bought out too soon.
Good idea RE reduction in rent though, we might invoke that if they start taking the p1ss about viewings.

We would love to help them sell the house as it's a sad situation for them but we have to look after number 1 too. Our privacy and peace and quiet are very important to us.

Clive · 06-10-2014 6:23pm

It may be a stupid question pooch90, but are the estate agents aware that the property is being sold with sitting tenants?

Aka Ishur · 06-10-2014 6:28pm

pooch90 wrote: »

Only downside to that is that there is nowhere suitable to rent at the minute locally, so it's not in our interest to get bought out too soon.
Good idea RE reduction in rent though, we might invoke that if they start taking the p1ss about viewings.

We would love to help them sell the house as it's a sad situation for them but we have to look after number 1 too. Our privacy and peace and quiet are very important to us.

I would be sure to set notice conditions before any viewings take place..

pooch90 · 06-10-2014 6:50pm

They have given us enough notice for this viewing(today is Mon,viewing is Thurs) but we will happily say no if it doesn't suit. We have also told them that if there are multiple viewings they are to be done the same day.

Clive, I actually don't know what conversations have been had between EA and LL. We haven't had a proper conversation with LL about this all yet as they live in a time zone 12 hours ahead so it's awkward. They are first time LLs and I wanted to have my info right before we talk to them. The EAs know there is a year left on the lease.

Graham · 06-10-2014 6:54pm

pooch90 wrote: »

They have given us enough notice for this viewing(today is Mon,viewing is Thurs) but we will happily say no if it doesn't suit. We have also told them that if there are multiple viewings they are to be done the same day.

Clive, I actually don't know what conversations have been had between EA and LL. We haven't had a proper conversation with LL about this all yet as they live in a time zone 12 hours ahead so it's awkward. They are first time LLs and I wanted to have my info right before we talk to them. The EAs know there is a year left on the lease.

Did you check the lease? It's not unusual to see a clause whereby the landlord can terminate the lease early if he needs to sell.

pooch90 · 06-10-2014 6:59pm

It is a standard lease with no break clause. As far as LL was concerned they were leaving the country for 5 years and it was to be leased until their return.

Beaner1 · 06-10-2014 9:56pm

Why bother giving viewings if you're getting nothing in return?

AfterHrsProp · 07-10-2014 11:14am

Your under no obligation to do anything. You signed a fixed term lease, unless they have a clause in the lease concerning this your in a relatively good position.

Fixed term leases are signed to give protection not only to the landlord but to the tenant too.

Unless the potential purchasers have vacant possession of the property they will be unable to get a mortgage for it. This reduces the pool of people that can actually buy the property considerably.

If the property is sold to a cash buyer, they will have to honor the lease.

Sit tight & make it clear you do not want to move. If they make you an offer too good to refuse, it might be in your interests to take it

hfallada · 07-10-2014 11:21am

OP you can listen to all these on this thread going on about now having to allow viewings. But at the end of the day, you will wasn't a reference and if you being a bit of prick( allow you are legally entitled to do it). The landlord isn't going to give a glowing reference.

Why did the landlord give a two year lease in the first place? I have never heard of one before

AfterHrsProp · 07-10-2014 11:25am

hfallada wrote: »

OP you can listen to all these on this thread going on about now having to allow viewings. But at the end of the day, you will wasn't a reference and if you being a bit of prick( allow you are legally entitled to do it). The landlord isn't going to give a glowing reference.

Why did the landlord give a two year lease in the first place? I have never heard of one before

Two year leases do exist & how is the tenant being a bit of a prick by not allowing viewings. He signed a two year lease for a reason. If he was the one looking to break the lease the landlord would be able to penalize him. Now the shoe is on the other foot for the tenant & you have a problem with that.

07-10-2014 11:32am

AfterHrsProp wrote: »

If the property is sold to a cash buyer, they will have to honor the lease.

I thought if the owner of a house wants to move in it overrules a lease?

athtrasna · 07-10-2014 11:39am

Santiago Billions Cowgirl wrote: »

I thought if the owner of a house wants to move in it overrules a lease?

No it doesn't. It allows a Part IV tenancy to be ended but not a fixed term lease

07-10-2014 12:25pm

athtrasna wrote: »

No it doesn't. It allows a Part IV tenancy to be ended but not a fixed term lease

Ah fair enough, I mixed it up so.

timetogo · 07-10-2014 12:30pm

Get the landlord on your side (and the potential new landlord).

You don't have to allow viewings but then you do have to keep renting your place until the end of the lease. Would you want a landlord that may review the rent as soon as he's entitled to or end your lease as soon as it expires?

Most people aren't dicks. He wants to sell the property. You don't want it to hassle you. It's not that hard to accommodate each other.

Here's a handy article on your rights.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html
http://prtb.ie/news/article/2014/02/11/breaking-a-fixed-term-lease

gaius c · 07-10-2014 12:40pm

pooch90 wrote: »

Hi all,
I know I've come across it before but I can't put my finger on the right info.

Basically, we are a year into a two year lease. LL has to put the house on the market. What are our rights in this situation?
We are a fixed term lease, not Part 4.

If the house sells, does our lease still stand until next year? Do new owners have to take us on as tenants or could they offer us re-location fees or something?

How much access do we need to give the estate agents? (LL is abroad so EA is contacting us directly). We have had the EA in last week to do photos and will be coming this week for a viewing with potential buyer. How often is reasonable? Not worried about now but if it were to happen every week, we'd get sick of it pretty quick.

Also, how do we stand with viewers looking in wardrobes/presses/drawers etc? Surely we still have the right to privacy?

We have no interest in making things difficult for our LL but we are not going to have people in and out constantly either.

Thanks in advance!

If the bank get involved, your lease won't be worth the paper it's written on.
Just be aware of this if they take over the sale.

Personally, I'd be looking for a discount on rent to allow viewings.

womandriver · 07-10-2014 12:47pm

gaius c wrote: »

If the bank get involved, your lease won't be worth the paper it's written on.
Just be aware of this if they take over the sale.

Personally, I'd be looking for a discount on rent to allow viewings.

The lease will still stand in a receivership (been there, done that) not in a liquidation tho I believe.

BeatNikDub · 07-10-2014 1:46pm

It will probably be the EA or the receptionist making the appointments with you so if you wish to allow viewings but at times that suit then tell them when does and when doesn't.
Even if you just want one a week, tell the EA office the time and day and they will arrange all viewings around then. If it doesnt suit potential viewers there is not much they can do about that but generally once the situation is explained to a viewer they understand, plus if they are really serious people will make the time.
Hope this situation moves nice and smoothly for you!

pooch90 · 07-10-2014 2:02pm

Thanks for all the replies.
We have no interest in making things awkward for the LL as we have a good relationship and they haven't been anything but fair with us and vice versa. We will allow viewings within reason but we don't want to feel encroached upon by strangers.

The EA is already p1ssing us off, trying to change days and times when they were coming for photos and calling me THREE times yesterday when they know my work hours.

Timetogo, thanks for the links. One from PRTB will be useful to show LLs.

TBH I think they think they can just sell the house and we will move out whenever suits them. We are nice but we're not that nice!!!

gandalf · 07-10-2014 2:24pm

TBH the EA will be a pain in the ass you need to put them in their place. They want to sell the place quickly to get their commission. If they start acting the dick let the LL know, that way their ear isn't been bent by them about the uncooperative tenant.

pooch90 · 07-10-2014 2:48pm

I was thinking that alright, I have no problem being a dick to the EA.
Just trying to figure out how to make this as painless as possible for the next few months.

timetogo · 07-10-2014 3:48pm

pooch90 wrote: »

I was thinking that alright, I have no problem being a dick to the EA.
Just trying to figure out how to make this as painless as possible for the next few months.

I'm not in your situation and don't know how it works but if it was me I'd say to the LL what times you're willing to let the EA have access and that you aren't available other times. Then let him deal with the EA. The estate agent has to be nice to the landlord. The only time I'd deal with him is during the designated times that I've told he could view the property.

Mrs OBumble · 07-10-2014 4:53pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

Why bother giving viewings if you're getting nothing in return?

Because karma is a bitch.

Beaner1 · 07-10-2014 5:49pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because karma is a bitch.

There is no such thing.

If I sold you a car and then called to your house a week later asking to borrow it for a few hours would you let me? You know, for karma.

BanjoKelly · 07-10-2014 6:04pm

I was a buyer in a situation like this, with sitting tenants. The previous owner halved the rent for the tenants during the month there were viewings happening - I would suggest this is what you should look for in exchange for you facilitating viewings.

When I bought the house I was asked if I wanted vacant possession or to keep the tenants in place. I wanted to keep them. I checked the leases afterwards and in our cases there was a break clause in them if the property is sold. If your lease doesn't have one I expect that you could look for compensation if the vendor wants to break the lease on you.

drumswan · 07-10-2014 6:24pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because karma is a bitch.

Whats karma go to do with it? If you want to sell your house dont lease it to someone else for two years.

Eldarion · 08-10-2014 8:52am

pooch90 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies.
We have no interest in making things awkward for the LL as we have a good relationship and they haven't been anything but fair with us and vice versa. We will allow viewings within reason but we don't want to feel encroached upon by strangers.

The EA is already p1ssing us off, trying to change days and times when they were coming for photos and calling me THREE times yesterday when they know my work hours.

Timetogo, thanks for the links. One from PRTB will be useful to show LLs.

TBH I think they think they can just sell the house and we will move out whenever suits them. We are nice but we're not that nice!!!

Doesn't sound like it's the LL's burning desire to sell anyway, he's probably underwater so far that it makes little difference. If anything, a delay in the selling process will help him as generally speaking house prices are on the rise and the longer the delay, the closer he gets to the surface.

Since it's the bank forcing the sale then really it's bank and EA where the pressure is coming from and you can quite nicely tell them where to go because you hold all the cards here and they are not serving your best interest at all.

Next call I'd politely put the EA back in his/her box and tell exactly how the situation lies. Tell him/her you have every intention of seeing out the full term outlined in your lease and while you're trying to be accommodating to pictures/viewings that excessive hassle from them especially during your work hours is unacceptable and will lead to you being less accommodating in the future.

pooch90 · 09-10-2014 3:51pm

We have three viewings today and to be honest, I find it all very uncomfortable. I have to hide all my underwear and stuff because they are going into my bedroom, OH has lots of pricey electronics, it's all just horrible.
Serious chats will be had after today because I'm so pissed off with it all already.

Clive · 09-10-2014 4:03pm

pooch90 wrote: »

We have three viewings today and to be honest, I find it all very uncomfortable. I have to hide all my underwear and stuff because they are going into my bedroom, OH has lots of pricey electronics, it's all just horrible.
Serious chats will be had after today because I'm so pissed off with it all already.

Have you looked at the ad the EA put up? If they haven't specified that it's for sale with sitting tenants, then they are wasting everyone's time.

athtrasna · 09-10-2014 4:20pm

pooch90 wrote: »

We have three viewings today and to be honest, I find it all very uncomfortable. I have to hide all my underwear and stuff because they are going into my bedroom, OH has lots of pricey electronics, it's all just horrible.
Serious chats will be had after today because I'm so pissed off with it all already.

Why are you facilitating viewings, you have no obligations to do so

Landlord selling house, year left on lease.

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