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Irish birth rate continues to fall

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Comments

  • #92
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Wealth creation doesn't necessarily mean 'making profits', creating money is relatively easy, evenly distributing it though is another matter, we re potentially in one of the most unevenly wealth distributed periods of capatalism, or heading into it, we should probably do something about it
    The probem with wealth distribution is that the solution needs to be global. If one country or group of countries were to put in place some wealth distribution plan for corporate profits or high worth individuals, the money will just move somewhere else.


  • #93
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Zorya wrote: »
    This is an interesting graph in relation to that area.

    DrHNwzKWwAA5GWp.jpg

    I'd be surprised to see if Ireland strayed too far from the UK on those metrics


  • #94
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    lawred2 wrote: »
    I'd be surprised to see if Ireland strayed too far from the UK on those metrics

    Money makes money


  • #95
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    lawred2 wrote: »
    I'd be surprised to see if Ireland strayed too far from the UK on those metrics

    I find it a bit mind boggling. But it illustrates to me that the problems have always, as historically, been class divide issues - not all the stupid fodder of identity politics division that is foisted on us to keep us at each others throats while the rich slyly cream away the whole of the wealth of the world.

    We live in a form of feudalism now. Most workers struggling to afford basic homes or children etc are the new serfs, even if you are reasonably well paid you are basically a serf to the invisible feudal lords. Wealth distribution is more unequal now than it ever was at any time. It's all mad, Ted. Anyways.


  • #96
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    People might disagree with this but a couple in dublin on 150k a year combined ( both working) aren't wealthy.

    After mortgage, car fees, creche fees, pension deductions , healthcare, and general bills you ain't left with alot, ok they would have savings but they won't be retiring early on it.

    All of the above is about 4.5k (maybe closer to 5k) a month before you consider clothing, food...etc.

    On the flip side they are contributing huge tax euros to the revenue and not using any social benefit aside from the child welfare allowance.

    Shouldn't we be encouraging this behaviour by making it easier to have kids and work? But not just work but careers. We want gender equality right , in the work place? Right? Then this support for working families has to happen.


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  • #97
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    jon1981 wrote: »
    People might disagree with this but a couple in dublin on 150k a year combined ( both working) aren't wealthy.

    After mortgage, car fees, creche fees, pension deductions , healthcare, and general bills you ain't left with alot, ok they would have savings but they won't be retiring early on it.

    All of the above is about 4.5k a month before you consider clothing, food...etc.

    On the flip side they are contributing huge tax euros to the revenue and not using any social benefit aside from the child welfare allowance.

    Shouldn't we be encouraging this behaviour by making it easier to have kids and work? But not just work but careers. We want gender equality right , in the work place? Right? Then this support for working families has to happen.

    this is a fact


  • #98
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,532 ✭✭✭worded


    Its financial castration for the middle classs

    Only the rich or poor can afford 2+ in a family

    Middle classes are fcuked with childcare fees etc


  • #99
    Greyfox
    Registered Users Posts: 3,720 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    jon1981 wrote: »
    People might disagree with this but a couple in dublin on 150k a year combined ( both working) aren't wealthy.

    Nonsense, a couple on 150k can be considered wealthy. It's just that they have made the choice you use this wealth on a mortgage and kids, if they decided to not have kids and to not drive they'd be well off


  • #100
    babi-hrse
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭babi-hrse


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    I find that extremely hard to believe, all I see is couples with 3,4,5,6 + kids every time I go home.

    You must live in athy


  • #101
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Nonsense, a couple on 150k can be considered wealthy. It's just that they have made the choice you use this wealth on a mortgage and kids, if they decided to not have kids and to not drive they'd be well off

    We decided to have kids and retain our careers yes. This post is about birthrates dropping and im pointing out why people are perhaps choosing not to have children. If no kids were on the scene we'd certaibly be much better off but chose to have kids.


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  • #102
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    A couple on 150k are indeed wealthy, their problem is their expenses. They chose to live in high priced Foxrock than in Tallaght down the road.


  • #103
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    klaaaz wrote: »
    A couple on 150k are indeed wealthy, their problem is their expenses. They chose to live in high priced Foxrock than in Tallaght down the road.

    Deluded. If you think that income will get you a mortgage in Foxrock. There also isn't a 5 series parked outside with a set of clubs in the boot.

    Back on topic, remember I'm highlighting impediments to raising many children. Ireland needs workers and tax payers but also children to replenish the workforce of the future...the current tax payers need suppport to raise future tax payers.


  • #104
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Deluded. If you think that income will get you a mortgage in Foxrock.

    Nonsense, thing is the couple won't save first before getting that half a million property in Foxrock. They want to borrow to the max now and then moan that they cannot afford kids. If they bought down the road in Tallaght, they would have a far better disposable income and afford as many kids as they like.


  • #105
    Debtocracy
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭Debtocracy


    The consensus argument is that people are having less children because they can’t afford them. But if you examine the evidence across societies, the opposite appears to be the case – when the economy is accelerating and earnings increase, fertility decreases.

    So why do people have more children with less and less children with more? One possibility is that when the economy is still expanding, people are optimistic and motivated to advance their careers. Having children just looks like a barrier to this. If a recession hits and there’s less opportunities for career advancement, having a child is no longer a major opportunity cost.

    Another idea is that as people get wealthier, they become more materialistic and family values decrease. Status anxiety increases as people try to keep up with their neighbours. This narcissistic mindset tends not to value the self-sacrificing nature of having children.

    In the long-term, the birth rate will continue to fall in Western societies. Culturally the drive towards wealth acquisition and advancing one’s career has become far more important than having children. American materialistic culture is creeping into Irish society whereby most of the population believe they’ll be in the top 1% one day. Kids just get in the way of the American dream.


  • #106
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Debtocracy wrote: »
    American materialistic culture is creeping into Irish society whereby most of the population believe they’ll be in the top 1% one day. Kids just get in the way of the American dream.


    America doesn't help itself with its anti children policies.


    The only federal law guaranteeing maternity leave in the U.S. is unpaid — and it only applies to some employees. The law that most women rely on is the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA), which will protect your job for up to 12 weeks after childbirth or adoption


  • #107
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Nonsense, a couple on 150k can be considered wealthy. It's just that they have made the choice you use this wealth on a mortgage and kids, if they decided to not have kids and to not drive they'd be well off

    Hardly an unusual set of choices is it?


  • #108
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    Debtocracy wrote: »
    Another idea is that as people get wealthier, they become more materialistic and family values decrease. Status anxiety increases as people try to keep up with their neighbours. This narcissistic mindset tends not to value the self-sacrificing nature of having children.
    .

    I like the mention of family values decline.
    - in a way it reminds me how ppl don't have home cooked meals anymore, they rather get takeaway, or dine out.

    For the example of the couple on 150k - if they can't afford 3 kids today, I also think their priorities must be the only reason for that (as modern workplaces do offer flextime, and age between siblings can be planned so that creche is not a burden).

    But would love to hear an anthropologist view.


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