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Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Luas upgrade to 55m

1246

Comments

  • #92
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    In a city of one and a half million , we have the luas

    Canada, France, Spain, Australia, Netherlands or United Arab Emirates are happy to use Citadis (Luas type) service but we AGAIN must be different, and solve simple problems with highest level of complication, costs and confusion?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Citadis

    Not to even mention all light rail (tram) systems successfully used in the half of the world (richer half)...


  • #93
    highdef
    Registered Users Posts: 6,136 ✭✭✭highdef


    zom wrote: »
    Canada, France, Spain, Australia, Netherlands or United Arab Emirates are happy to use Citadis (Luas type) service but we AGAIN must be different, and solve simple problems with highest level of complication, costs and confusion?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Citadis

    Not to even mention all light rail (tram) systems successfully used in the half of the world (richer half)...

    Sorry, but what are you trying to say here? Am I missing something?

    Dublin uses the Citadis 301, 401, 402 and 502 Citadis trams.


  • #94
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    zom wrote: »
    Canada, France, Spain, Australia, Netherlands or United Arab Emirates are happy to use Citadis (Luas type) service but we AGAIN must be different, and solve simple problems with highest level of complication, costs and confusion?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Citadis

    Not to even mention all light rail (tram) systems successfully used in the half of the world (richer half)...

    The model used for Dublin is a specialist built - it was the first of the type of tram that Alstom had ever built at the length it is built at which is why there were some teething issues when they first come on stream.

    When this model series was developed the manufacturer never envisaged making a tram so long so didn't make any allowances for it in the design so it very much was a bespoke spec for Dublin.


  • #95
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    zom wrote: »
    service but we AGAIN must be different, and solve simple problems with highest level of complication, costs and confusion?

    You mean like how most similar sized European cities (e.g. Copenhagen, Amsterdam, etc.) have multiple Metro lines as the core of their network.

    There is nothing wrong with trams as such, they make an important part of most European cities transport network. The problem here, is that we are using them WAY beyond the capacity limits that most other cities use them and we are using them as the core of our network, which they are pretty poor for.

    Most other similar sized European cities use multiple Metro and/or DARt type heavy rail networks as the core of their network, with tram lines and bus lines then feeding off that.

    Luas has certainly been a success, but we are pushing it far beyond what it is ideally designed for.


  • #96
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    Luas has certainly been a success, but we are pushing it far beyond what it is ideally designed for.

    I have GENIUS idea - build more lines !!!!


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  • #97
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    zom wrote: »
    I have GENIUS idea - build more lines !!!!

    Genius, lets call the NTA and tell them, I'm sure they never thought of that :rolleyes:

    Which lines do you want to build? Down which already congested roads do you want to build these lines?

    There are some extensions to the existing lines planned, Finglas, Bray, the Docks. But there simply isn't enough space for anymore new lines cutting through the already hyper congested city center.

    That is why they have turned the focus to Metrolink, DART Expansion and a future Dart Underground. We need to go underground to continue building new transport through the city and it needs to be much higher capacity then overcrowded trams.


  • #98
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    bk wrote: »
    Genius, lets call the NTA and tell them, I'm sure they never thought of that :rolleyes:

    Which lines do you want to build? Down which already congested roads do you want to build these lines?

    There are some extensions to the existing lines planned, Finglas, Bray, the Docks. But there simply isn't enough space for anymore new lines cutting through the already hyper congested city center.

    That is why they have turned the focus to Metrolink, DART Expansion and a future Dart Underground. We need to go underground to continue building new transport through the city and it needs to be much higher capacity then overcrowded trams.

    While your right that the roads are already congested , so were the streets that the current luas is on ..
    ( That doesn't mean they shouldn't build metro though )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #99
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Markcheese wrote: »
    While your right that the roads are already congested , so were the streets that the current luas is on ..
    ( That doesn't mean they shouldn't build metro though )

    Well the Green Line was mostly built along a previously closed rail line. The Red Line sort of gets away with it, as it mostly uses Abbey street which wasn't a major used road before it anyway. Though really it should have been cut and cover under O'Connell St and using Abbey Street limits the possible length of the Red Luas trams due to the junctions.

    It is the Luas Cross City project that has really caused most of the issues and really shows the limits of trams. I mean it sort of works, but it has caused absolute mayhem to bus and coach services around Trinity College and has massively disturbed other routes and public transport users. Ideally all of that should have been underground.

    There really isn't the space in the core city center for any more new Luas lines. I can certainly see extensions to existing lines and splits going off in other directions, etc. But we have definitely seen the limits of it's usefulness IMO.


  • #100
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    If there was a possibility of doing cut and cover in parts of city centre that'd be great ... ( Can't really see cut and cover working to well on o connell bridge ... )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #101
    Dr_Colossus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    bk wrote: »
    Genius, lets call the NTA and tell them, I'm sure they never thought of that :rolleyes:

    Which lines do you want to build? Down which already congested roads do you want to build these lines?

    There are some extensions to the existing lines planned, Finglas, Bray, the Docks. But there simply isn't enough space for anymore new lines cutting through the already hyper congested city center.

    That is why they have turned the focus to Metrolink, DART Expansion and a future Dart Underground. We need to go underground to continue building new transport through the city and it needs to be much higher capacity then overcrowded trams.

    What about Suas, never knew that was an actual proposal until I saw the below picture last week, mad stuff. Since Ireland can't do long term planning maybe they'll build another stop-gap system such as below.
    cable4_2.jpg


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  • #102
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Dr_Colossus wrote: »
    What about Suas, never knew that was an actual proposal until I saw the below picture last week, mad stuff. Since Ireland can't do long term planning maybe they'll build another stop-gap system such as below.

    These sort of things are just for tourists (and priced as such) they have very little capacity.


  • #103
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    bk wrote: »
    These sort of things are just for tourists (and priced as such) they have very little capacity.

    Urban cable trams work in many cities and they have pretty good capacity:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_Island_Tramway


    cable-car-to-roosevelt-island-in-new-york-picture-id1042007144


  • #104
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    bk wrote: »
    Genius, lets call the NTA and tell them, I'm sure they never thought of that :rolleyes:

    Which lines do you want to build? Down which already congested roads do you want to build these lines?

    Maybe we call Germans, French or Spanish to ask how they managed to do that?

    bk wrote: »
    But there simply isn't enough space for anymore new lines cutting through the already hyper congested city center.


    Dublin "congestion" is hardly comparable to most of capitals and big cities in Europe..


  • #105
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    zom wrote: »
    Maybe we call Germans, French or Spanish to ask how they managed to do that?

    Let me tell you how they did it in Frankfurt. They had a tram system very similar to our Luas. Once it reached it's maximum capacity (which was much less then Luas currently carries), they started burying those trams lines underground in the core city center and upgraded the whole tram lines to Metro standard.
    zom wrote: »
    Dublin "congestion" is hardly comparable to most of capitals and big cities in Europe..

    It is the same as other mid sized European cities like Copenhagen, etc. They all built Metro networks to be the core of their transport networks.

    All those German, French and Spanish cities have Metro networks. This is the only solution to our congestion issues. It isn't rocket science, it is what pretty much every other mid sized or greater European city has done.

    City planners and engineers in Dublin have been looking at this for decades. We have had plans for Metro and Dart Underground going back to the 70's. There are no other easy to do Luas lines to be built. The only solution is to stop messing around with half arsed solutions and finally bite the bullet and start building underground.


  • #106
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    zom wrote: »
    Is it like luas upgrade is limited by delivery of new modules from Alstom? Are they delivered from France or someone else makes them?

    The new modules are made by Alstom and delivered from La Rochelle in Western France.

    The last couple of deliveries have a revised design of upholstery / moquette.

    5010 and 5003 have been extended recently.


  • #107
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    In a city of one and a half million , we have the luas , servicing the most central areas and it runs On street at a glacial pace, has significantly impacted on the bus network and doesn’t even have priority at some minor junctions, for what can shift about what ? 500 per tram?

    It cannot handle the numbers Using it now at leak times , never mind another few years from now with the huge scale of development in Dublin ...

    that doesn't make it "an unreliable Mickey Mouse piece of infrastructure, already past it’s sell by date" as you claim.
    it just means that it is a piece of infrastructure not suitable for the type of service it is expected to act as, and for the loadings it is expected to carry.
    luas is a brilliant piece of infrastructure, dublin absolutely needed a tram system, the building of luas was the writing of a wrong as far as i'm concerned, however it has limits, and we have gone past those limits by now i would expect.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • #108
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    end of the road wrote: »
    that doesn't make it "an unreliable Mickey Mouse piece of infrastructure, already past it’s sell by date" as you claim.
    it just means that it is a piece of infrastructure not suitable for the type of service it is expected to act as, and for the loadings it is expected to carry.
    luas is a brilliant piece of infrastructure, dublin absolutely needed a tram system, the building of luas was the writing of a wrong as far as i'm concerned, however it has limits, and we have gone past those limits by now i would expect.

    its not up to the job it is meant for, that isnt the Luas fault, its the idiots here who as usual, had no foresight...


  • #109
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,848 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    its not up to the job it is meant for, that isnt the Luas fault, its the idiots here who as usual, had no foresight...

    Designed in the 90s for 90s Dublin.

    It's up to its' job.

    Lack of foresight is another thing!!!


  • #110
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    its not up to the job it is meant for, that isnt the Luas fault, its the idiots here who as usual, had no foresight...

    except it is up to the job for what it is meant for. trams work successfully around the world, and as a tram system luas does work.
    the issue here is that it is being asked to do a job for which trams are not, and never were actually meant for. that of a metro system or heavy rail system.
    yet dispite this, it actually seems to continue to keep going.
    so, still not a micky mouse piece of infrastructure that is passed it's sell by date, but simply a piece of infrastructure implemented in the wrong application.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • #111
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Or a piece of critical infrastructure ,that needs many more such critical pieces alongside it ,
    Someone on the cork light rail thread suggested hybrid battery / overhead electric trolley buses ,
    So outside the central areas it runs on overhead electric ,in built up areas it runs on batterys ..

    Still needs a commitment to move away from cars as extra tram lines mean taking up driving and parking spaces ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • #112
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Or a piece of critical infrastructure ,that needs many more such critical pieces alongside it ,
    Someone on the cork light rail thread suggested hybrid battery / overhead electric trolley buses ,
    So outside the central areas it runs on overhead electric ,in built up areas it runs on batterys ..

    Still needs a commitment to move away from cars as extra tram lines mean taking up driving and parking spaces ...

    something like that would certainly be worth consideration for corridors where trams would be to much but buses would be to little, however i would have it fully overhead electrified instead of batteries in the city.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • #113
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    bk wrote: »
    Genius, lets call the NTA and tell them, I'm sure they never thought of that :rolleyes:

    Which lines do you want to build? Down which already congested roads do you want to build these lines?

    There are some extensions to the existing lines planned, Finglas, Bray, the Docks. But there simply isn't enough space for anymore new lines cutting through the already hyper congested city center.

    That is why they have turned the focus to Metrolink, DART Expansion and a future Dart Underground. We need to go underground to continue building new transport through the city and it needs to be much higher capacity then overcrowded trams.

    Have to disagree with this. The reason roads are congested is because of a lack of reliable alternatives. Even then, there are a number of corridors where tram lines could be provided relatively easily. These include: Lucan, UCD Clongriffin for example where there is sufficient road space to provide trams. It’s the lack of investment that is killing such projects.


  • #114
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Last Stop wrote: »
    Have to disagree with this. The reason roads are congested is because of a lack of reliable alternatives. Even then, there are a number of corridors where tram lines could be provided relatively easily. These include: Lucan, UCD Clongriffin for example where there is sufficient road space to provide trams. It’s the lack of investment that is killing such projects.

    Roads would likely still be congested with those alternatives though.


  • #115
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    Apologies for bit of cross posting but I just red interesting article on Vice (WARNING!!) about fail of public transport in US.
    Linked here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112857419

    Reading it was like having deejay-vu all Irish problems we have, and explains a lot of why we can't have nice metro or trams systems that can be easily afforded in poor Eastern European cities..


  • #116
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    5009 was extended in the last few weeks and was on test last week.

    With this extension, the proportion of 5000 class trams which are 9 module or 55 metre, has passed the halfway mark. Of 33 trams, 17 are extra long, just 16 remain short (7 modules). That is seven trams 5027-5033 which were delivered full length, plus ten extended after some years service.


  • #117
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    5006 has been extended in the past week.


  • #118
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    5012 was extended this week.


  • #119
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    tabbey wrote: »
    5012 was extended this week.

    Thanks for the update, keep safe there while extending !!


  • #120
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    5020 was extended last week.


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  • #121
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    How many are left of to extend?


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