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The Famine Plot - Tim Pat Coogan "Famine was genocide"

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    #152
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    It was a food deficiency on a scale unknown in Western Europe. It seems evident to me that the scale of the catastrophe was such that people in London (and to a lesser extent, in Dublin) were unable to comprehend it.
    You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? Perhaps you could explain the scale of the relief aid that came from everywhere else in the World. Could you, for instance, explain how the Choctaw Indians knew about the Famine in 1847 and sent relief aid for the starving Irish?
    In 1831 the Choctaw Indians were forcibly removed from their ancestral lands in Mississippi to what is now known as Oklahoma. The Choctaws were the first of several tribes to make the trek along The Trail of Tears. The years during and immediately following this journey were very difficult for the tribal people. The winter of this particular Trail of Tears was the coldest on record - the food and clothing of the people were severely inadequate and transportation needs were not properly met. Many of the Choctaws did not survive the trip, and those that did not perish faced hardships establishing new homes, schools, and churches.

    A few years after this long, sad march, the Choctaws learned of people starving to death in Ireland. The Irish were dying because although there were other crops being grown in their country, all but the potato were marked for export by the British rulers. The Irish poor were not allowed any other sustenance than the potato, and from 1845-1849 this vegetable was diseased. Only sixteen years had passed since the Choctaws themselves had faced hunger and death on the first Trail of Tears, and a great empathy was felt when they heard such a similar story coming from across the ocean. Individuals made donations totaling $170 in 1847 to send to assist the Irish people. These noble Choctaw people, who had such meager resources, gave all they could on behalf of others in greater need.

    Link to the Choctaw Nation.

    The people of Ireland have never forgotten the kindness shown from the Choctaw Indians.

    I bet you never heard of that right?:o

    So the Choctaw Indians in Oklahoma know about the seriousness of the Famine but people in Dublin didn't, right?:rolleyes:


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    #153
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Where did I say or imply such a thing?
    I assumed that by refusing to condemn his comments that you were happy to associate yourself with them. Perhaps you'd like to clarify your position now to remove any confusion.

    Did Irish people deliberately starve themselves to death rather than eat Maize because they were 'too snobby'?


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    #154
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Not very attentively, it seems.
    Why do you say that? :confused:


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    #155
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Coles wrote: »
    I assumed that by refusing to condemn his comments that you were happy to associate yourself with them. Perhaps you'd like to clarify your position now to remove any confusion.

    Did Irish people deliberately starve themselves to death rather than eat Maize because they were 'too snobby'?
    I think that you are the only person in danger of being confused about where I stand, and that is because of your debating strategy.

    I refuse to get sucked into your game.


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    #156
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    I'll repeat the question.

    Do you stand over the assertion that the Irish people starved themselves to death because they were 'too snobby' to eat Maize?

    Yes or No. You haven't condemned the assertion so I think you should clarify your position.


    Maize? No way. I'd rather die than eat Maize!





    @P Bhreathnach, Can you see how obnoxious your assertion is now?


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    #157
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Coles wrote: »
    @PBreathnach, Pedroeibar1, Do you guys still stand over your claim that 1 million people starved themselves to death decause they were 'too snobby' to eat maize?
    I've been waiting for a response to this question for quite a while now.

    Neither PB nor I made that assertion - we would not be stupid enough to say so. You were the one to first use (in your post No.120 ) and then repeat that phrase ad nauseam with the other unsourced innaccurate dross that you posted.

    What was said (by me) was that some paupers would not deign to eat yellow meal and called it ‘brimstone’ which is factually correct – there were riots over this in the Limerick Workhouse, for example.
    You have shown the board what you are in your recent posts and do not merit any more attention.


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    #158
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    What was said (by me) was that some paupers would not deign to eat yellow meal and called it ‘brimstone’ which is factually correct – there were riots over this in the Limerick Workhouse, for example.
    and then you developed that point a bit further...
    Not deigning to eat Indian Meal in the Famine era is the modern day equivalent of the ‘socially deprived’ being unwilling to accept social housing because it is ‘not near my mammy’ or because ‘it is built on a hlll’ (as seen in Cork recently.)

    Shameful stuff. All the more shameful that you would attempt to defend it. I hope you never go hungry.


    @P.Breathnach, you've chosen a fairly rank bed-fellow. Cuddle up chaps. Keep each nice and comfortable.


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    #159
    Coles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭Coles


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    Neither PB nor I made that assertion - we would not be stupid enough to say so.
    Oh yeah? Are you sure? Are you clever enough to know what 'deign' actually means?
    OED Definition of 'DEIGN'
    verb
    do something that one considers to be beneath one’s dignity:

    Thesaurus.com definition of 'DEIGN' 
    Part of Speech: verb
    Definition: lower oneself
    Synonyms: condescend, consent, deem worthy, patronize, see fit, stoop, think fit, vouchsafe
    Antonyms: be proud, hold head high

    So what now? More nonsense or are you going to run away again?
    You have shown the board what you are in your recent posts and do not merit any more attention.

    Bye. I'll be waiting here if you want to come back and talk about it.:D


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    #160
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    Coles wrote: »
    Oh yeah? Are you sure? Are you clever enough to know what 'deign' actually means?

    So what now? More nonsense or are you going to run away again?

    Bye. I'll be waiting here if you want to come back and talk about it.:D

    This has sat for a while as I was absent from the forum for a while.

    I have read over the discussion in the last pages and you should note that while you are free to ask questions of people, the type of goading underlined above is not acceptable. You have been identified by posters as trying to push them into positions that they do not hold and they. They have not responded to this, quite correctly, and you should leave it at that as your assertions do not seem to be based on what the 2 other posters have said (as stated in post by Pedro). If this is not clear you should PM me.

    Moderator


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