YouTube announces it will no longer recommend conspiracy videos

Dohnjoe · 11-02-2019 5:09am #1

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/youtube-announces-it-will-no-longer-recommend-conspiracy-videos-n969856

The examples the company cited include "promoting a phony miracle cure for a serious illness, claiming the earth is flat, or making blatantly false claims about historic events like 9/11."

About time.

pleas advice · 11-02-2019 5:41am

What's the conspiracy here, OP?

:pac:

Ah, no. But wheres the line between blatently false and maybe possible...

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 11-02-2019 7:13am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/youtube-announces-it-will-no-longer-recommend-conspiracy-videos-n969856

About time.

Who decides what's blatantly false? Faceless names behind a multnational coperation?

While people like Alex Jones are generally wrong in their opinion and content. Where is the line?

Where's the conspiracy and where is the truth. Do we start having to follow the official narrative from now on?

Conspiracies do actually happen. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the Dublin and Monaghan Bombing for sure had support from British secret services, the WMD in Iraq. Bad stuff happens all the time, right up to governmental level.

The reasons YouTube cite look good on initial glance. Like September 11th being an 'inside job' seems wrong. But it was backed by the Saudis on a social level and quite possibly on a governmental level.

There's no miracle panacea for all disease or sickness unfortunately. We have to trust in the best evidence available for us currently. That doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't alternative ways to cure things. Ask the vast majority of people about practicing meditation and you'll mostly get a role of the eyes. But it improves mental health. You won't read up on that in a medical book though.

People believing in how the earth is flat is seems fairly benign. They might be dumb for thinking it, and they should be challenged. But that seems like the least of things to get upset about.

So no, I disagree, YouTube is a shared media of communication, conversation and knowledge. It should be off bounds to arbitrary rules. The alternative is we end up with people deciding what is true or not on 'feelings'.

King Mob · 11-02-2019 7:39am

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Conspiracies do actually happen. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the Dublin and Monaghan Bombing for sure had support from British secret services, the WMD in Iraq. Bad stuff happens all the time, right up to governmental level.

And of these "real" conspiracies, how many of them have been cracked because of people on youtube or on sites like prison planet?
All of them were cracked by people in the mainstream media, not conspiracy theorists on the internet. Many of them weren't even discussed by conspiracy theorists (even before the advent of the internet) before they were cracked by the media.
So not promoting stuff about how school shootings were all faked isn't exactly going to expose any real government misdeeds and would in fact distract and discredit the real misdeeds that are being committed.
For example, while it's easy to find threads and documentaries about how the moon landing wasn't real, there's almost nothing from the same people about Trump's shady dealings.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The reasons YouTube cite look good on initial glance. Like September 11th being an 'inside job' seems wrong. But it was backed by the Saudis on a social level and quite possibly on a governmental level.

But no conspiracy theorists actually just stick to that. It's too boring for them, so they have to invent things like secret explosives, fake witnesses, on camera confessions...
The vast majority of conspiracy theorists subscribe to the version of the conspiracy that you are dismissing out of hand.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

There's no miracle panacea for all disease or sickness unfortunately. We have to trust in the best evidence available for us currently. That doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't alternative ways to cure things. Ask the vast majority of people about practicing meditation and you'll mostly get a role of the eyes. But it improves mental health. You won't read up on that in a medical book though.

Well firstly, that's not true.
There's lots of studies about the benefits of meditation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=meditation

If there is an alternative cure for something, it's probably not going to be on youtube. And even if it was, it's going to be buried under tons of videos of wacky stuff that's pretty much magic, or scam artists who are doing pretty much all the shady stuff conspiracy theorists love to accuse doctors off.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

People believing in how the earth is flat is seems fairly benign. They might be dumb for thinking it, and they should be challenged. But that seems like the least of things to get upset about.

Sure, by itself it's dumb.
But people who are willing to believe that often believe a lot more conspiracy theories than just that.

And yes, conspiracy theories lead to harm.
Conspiracy theories have lead to large numbers of people rejecting vaccines and medicine, leading to illness and death.
A conspiracy theorist went into a pizzeria with guns because he thought there was a secret government pedophile ring in the basement.
Racist conspiracy theories like holocaust denial are spread all over, including this foru,.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

So no, I disagree, YouTube is a shared media of communication, conversation and knowledge. It should be off bounds to arbitrary rules. The alternative is we end up with people deciding what is true or not on 'feelings'.

But the thing is that youtube isn't banning these videos. They just aren't going to promote them. They aren't going to end up on the suggested videos alongside real educational videos where they might fool and influence venerable people.
They will still be available for people to seek out and watch.

But I think the vast vast majority of videos that are out there already fall into your category of nonsense and you rightly dismiss them out of hand.
And I think the few you say have value share more with those other types of videos than you realise, and if you really critically examined them with the same level of scrutiny, you'd reject them just as easily.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 11-02-2019 8:02am

King Mob wrote: »

And of these "real" conspiracies, how many of them have been cracked because of people on youtube or on sites like prison planet?
All of them were cracked by people in the mainstream media, not conspiracy theorists on the internet. Many of them weren't even discussed by conspiracy theorists (even before the advent of the internet) before they were cracked by the media.
So not promoting stuff about how school shootings were all faked isn't exactly going to expose any real government misdeeds and would in fact distract and discredit the real misdeeds that are being committed.
For example, while it's easy to find threads and documentaries about how the moon landing wasn't real, there's almost nothing from the same people about Trump's shady dealings.

But no conspiracy theorists actually just stick to that. It's too boring for them, so they have to invent things like secret explosives, fake witnesses, on camera confessions...
The vast majority of conspiracy theorists subscribe to the version of the conspiracy that you are dismissing out of hand.

Well firstly, that's not true.
There's lots of studies about the benefits of meditation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=meditation

If there is an alternative cure for something, it's probably not going to be on youtube. And even if it was, it's going to be buried under tons of videos of wacky stuff that's pretty much magic, or scam artists who are doing pretty much all the shady stuff conspiracy theorists love to accuse doctors off.

Sure, by itself it's dumb.
But people who are willing to believe that often believe a lot more conspiracy theories than just that.

And yes, conspiracy theories lead to harm.
Conspiracy theories have lead to large numbers of people rejecting vaccines and medicine, leading to illness and death.
A conspiracy theorist went into a pizzeria with guns because he thought there was a secret government pedophile ring in the basement.
Racist conspiracy theories like holocaust denial are spread all over, including this foru,.

But the thing is that youtube isn't banning these videos. They just aren't going to promote them. They aren't going to end up on the suggested videos alongside real educational videos where they might fool and influence venerable people.
They will still be available for people to seek out and watch.

But I think the vast vast majority of videos that are out there already fall into your category of nonsense and you rightly dismiss them out of hand.
And I think the few you say have value share more with those other types of videos than you realise, and if you really critically examined them with the same level of scrutiny, you'd reject them just as easily.

There's a lot there to respond to fully in fairness.

Julian Assange is at least one solid example of someone who didn't come from 'mainstream' journalism. Andrew Snowden being another.

Yes there is plenty of evidence supporting the benefits of meditation. But it is not generally recommended by doctors sadly.

The pizza guy with a gun is a lazy example to give. There's nothing to suggest he wouldn't have done something that loopy with or without conspiracy theories.

I asked a fair and reasonable amount of questions in my post you responded to. I don't think you tried to answer any of them directly.

King Mob · 11-02-2019 8:34am

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Julian Assange is at least one solid example of someone who didn't come from 'mainstream' journalism. Andrew Snowden being another.

And the mainstream media was entirely silent about them?
And the only avenue that they had was to post long ranting videos on youtube?
No.

And Edward Snowden released his information specifically through mainstream media outlets like the Guardian and the Washington Post.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden

Snowden's decision to leak NSA documents developed gradually following his March 2007 posting as a technician to the Geneva CIA station.[90] Snowden first made contact with Glenn Greenwald, a journalist working at The Guardian, on December 1, 2012.[91][92] He contacted Greenwald anonymously as "Cincinnatus"[93] and said he had sensitive documents that he would like to share.[94]
...
Within months, documents had been obtained and published by media outlets worldwide, most notably The Guardian (Britain), Der Spiegel (Germany), The Washington Post and The New York Times (U.S.), O Globo (Brazil), Le Monde (France), and similar outlets in Sweden, Canada, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, and Australia.[104]

So I don't think your argument holds there.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Yes there is plenty of evidence supporting the benefits of meditation. But it is not generally recommended by doctors sadly.

You say that, but you also previously said that such benefits are not mentioned in the medical literature. So on what basis are you claiming that mediation is not recommended by doctors?
Cause it doesn't seem like that's true:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/meditation-modern-life/201208/more-doctors-are-prescribing-meditation

But what they actually discovered was that 6.3 million Americans, or roughly 1 in 30 of us, are being referred by doctors to practice activities like meditation.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The pizza guy with a gun is a lazy example to give. There's nothing to suggest he wouldn't have done something that loopy with or without conspiracy theories.

Sure. I pointed to several others and the harm they cause.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I asked a fair and reasonable amount of questions in my post you responded to. I don't think you tried to answer any of them directly.

Ok. Your post was also long and has a lot of points.
Which questions would you like me to answer?

Cheerful Spring · 11-02-2019 2:30pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Who decides what's blatantly false? Faceless names behind a multnational coperation?

While people like Alex Jones are generally wrong in their opinion and content. Where is the line?

Where's the conspiracy and where is the truth. Do we start having to follow the official narrative from now on?

Conspiracies do actually happen. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the Dublin and Monaghan Bombing for sure had support from British secret services, the WMD in Iraq. Bad stuff happens all the time, right up to governmental level.

The reasons YouTube cite look good on initial glance. Like September 11th being an 'inside job' seems wrong. But it was backed by the Saudis on a social level and quite possibly on a governmental level.

There's no miracle panacea for all disease or sickness unfortunately. We have to trust in the best evidence available for us currently. That doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't alternative ways to cure things. Ask the vast majority of people about practicing meditation and you'll mostly get a role of the eyes. But it improves mental health. You won't read up on that in a medical book though.

People believing in how the earth is flat is seems fairly benign. They might be dumb for thinking it, and they should be challenged. But that seems like the least of things to get upset about.

So no, I disagree, YouTube is a shared media of communication, conversation and knowledge. It should be off bounds to arbitrary rules. The alternative is we end up with people deciding what is true or not on 'feelings'.

Mike West of Metabunk says the US government may have allowed the attacks to happen.

Even 9/11 Skeptics nowadays are not dismissing the Saudi role in 9/11. Oystein a well known 9/11 Skeptic on the JREF forum ( International Skeptics board ) said there is evidence the 9/11 hijackers had state help. He did not dismiss the theory Bandar bin Sultan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan_Al_Saud was one of the organisers of the attacks.

This where they draw the line, the buildings were brought down by controlled demolition. And no plane hit the Pentagon and no plane crashed in Pennyalavia Space weapons blowing up the twin towers.

Youtube can do what it likes, still not stop people from watching the 9/11 videos online. All this does is reinforce their beliefs above a US government cover-up.

weisses · 11-02-2019 2:33pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Mike West of Metabunk says the US government may have allowed the attacks to happen.

Ooh that's why King Mob believes it could be allowed to happen

King Mob · 11-02-2019 2:37pm

weisses wrote: »

Ooh that's why King Mob believes it could be allowed to happen

Misrepresentation of my statement and position as per usual.

weisses · 11-02-2019 2:48pm

King Mob wrote: »

Misrepresentation of my statement and position as per usual.

Sure buddy

King Mob wrote: »

I've said a few times that the basic premise of the conspiracy theory isn't far fetched.
It's entirely possible that elements of the US government allowed or helped or ordered terrorists to fly planes into buildings.

King Mob · 11-02-2019 2:57pm

weisses wrote: »

Sure buddy

Yup, like I said, a misrepresentation of my statement and position.

weisses · 11-02-2019 2:59pm

King Mob wrote: »

Yup, like I said, a misrepresentation of my statement and position.

I just quoted your post ...for all to see ... Nothing to do with misinterpretation .. Its clear as day

Sad ...all that backpedaling

King Mob · 11-02-2019 3:00pm

weisses wrote: »

I just quoted your post ...for all to see ... Nothing to do with misinterpretation .. Its clear as day

Sad ...all that backpedaling

Sure buddy.

weisses · 11-02-2019 3:02pm

King Mob wrote: »

Sure buddy.

Finally

Quotes don't lie

weisses · 11-02-2019 3:05pm

From your own post... could you elaborate what elements of the US government could be involved ??

King Mob · 11-02-2019 3:08pm

weisses wrote: »

From your own post... could you elaborate what elements of the US government could be involved ??

No.
I don't believe any were. I don't believe the theory is plausible or worth considering or expending that much though on.

And it's all off topic.

Muckka · 11-02-2019 3:13pm

Looks like another media site will jump on this one.
If YouTube ban conspiracy videos, you can be dam sure someone else will be picking up the pieces YouTube left out of the bag.

They'll loose half their viewership.

Cheerful Spring · 11-02-2019 3:49pm

King Mob wrote: »

No.
I don't believe any were. I don't believe the theory is plausible or worth considering or expending that much though on.

And it's all off topic.

Why do you say that, when is untrue.

This one of the leading FBI agents who hunted Bin Laden and Al Qaeda and he thinks the public has not got the truth. Lets us not ignore the CIA did not share information with Soufan unit the hijackers were in America to carry out attacks. You need to listen to people who were involved in this and they are still puzzled about what happened that day. If these guys are not in the know, that should trouble you too?

weisses · 11-02-2019 5:32pm

Muckka wrote: »

Looks like another media site will jump on this one.
If YouTube ban conspiracy videos, you can be dam sure someone else will be picking up the pieces YouTube left out of the bag.

They'll loose half their viewership.

They are not banning these videos

Muckka · 11-02-2019 8:39pm

weisses wrote: »

They are not banning these videos

Maybe you're right.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 13-02-2019 3:14am

King Mob wrote: »

And the mainstream media was entirely silent about them?
And the only avenue that they had was to post long ranting videos on youtube?
No.

And Edward Snowden released his information specifically through mainstream media outlets like the Guardian and the Washington Post.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden

So I don't think your argument holds there.

You say that, but you also previously said that such benefits are not mentioned in the medical literature. So on what basis are you claiming that mediation is not recommended by doctors?
Cause it doesn't seem like that's true:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/meditation-modern-life/201208/more-doctors-are-prescribing-meditation

Sure. I pointed to several others and the harm they cause.

Ok. Your post was also long and has a lot of points.
Which questions would you like me to answer?

I hope this is a fair response to your post.

When it comes to conspiracies regarding Bin Laden. I'm very much not on the side of the 'official' narrative. I simply don't think they killed him when they say they did. But they really needed that win at the time for public morale.

I think all evidence points to that he died years before that. I can go look for links on the actual public timelines if you want. Bin Laden loved putting out videos, he put out a great many number, and he became older and sicker as the timeline went on. Then there was a long gap, when I presume he died. But the occasional video kept coming out with him, but he looked younger and less sick in them, he even had a less grey beard and hair. There isn't too many hair salons in the Afghan mountains.

Sorry for the length of my post. But it's simply a 'conspiracy' I believe. Right or wrong I'm open to being incorrect on this. But the videos looked wrong and out of timeline, and there is almost no evidence that the actual Bin Laden died when Seal Team 6 went to Pakistan ('to carry out' an extra judicial killing even if that was true).

King Mob · 13-02-2019 6:22am

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I hope this is a fair response to your post.

Not really. It doesn't really address any of my points or questions and just seems to be introducing a new random conspiracy theory.

Given that your other examples of "real" conspiracies didn't survive a 2 minute googling and that this new one relies on a lot of assumptions, personal opinion about how a person looks and I'm going to guess a long list/2 hour video you wanna copy paste from a conspiracy site, I think my point is made.

Like the other examples of "real" conspiracies, this one isn't that much better or more far removed from the other conspires you reject as silly.
To plenty of people it looks to them like the WTC was blown up by silent nanoexplosive gel.
To others it looks like it was blown up with an orbital directed energy weapon.
To some it looks like a missile hit the Pentagon and the real plane just flew away.
To some it looks like the grieving parents after a school shooting are all actors.
To a few it looks like the holocaust is a Jewish conspiracy.
To a couple, it looks to them that the earth is flat.

To you Bin Laden looks odd in a few pictures.

Not seeing the difference here.
Not seeing why all those other conspiracy theories are any more silly than yours.

How do you judge which are the real ones and which are to be rejected?

Dohnjoe · 13-02-2019 11:25am

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I think all evidence points to that he died years before that. I can go look for links on the actual public timelines if you want. Bin Laden loved putting out videos, he put out a great many number, and he became older and sicker as the timeline went on. Then there was a long gap, when I presume he died. But the occasional video kept coming out with him, but he looked younger and less sick in them, he even had a less grey beard and hair. There isn't too many hair salons in the Afghan mountains.

Apart from rumours there is very little evidence he died before (the "best" was speculation that he died of kidney failure in the Tora Bora mountains and the source for that was one guy)

In 2011 AQ and the Pakistanis (and the ISI) confirmed his death even though it didn't suit them to do so. The relatives from the compound confirmed, genetic samples matched and certain senators on both sides (Dem and Rep) have seen the 3 sets of photos - some politicians have argued the photos should be released, others have said they would only serve to incite violence (according to those who have seen them, the photos are graphic, with a significant portion of the skull blown away exposing the brain)

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 14-02-2019 12:09pm

King Mob wrote: »

How do you judge which are the real ones and which are to be rejected?

Who decides what's blatantly false? Faceless names behind a multinational corporation?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 14-02-2019 12:10pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Apart from rumours there is very little evidence he died before (the "best" was speculation that he died of kidney failure in the Tora Bora mountains and the source for that was one guy)

In 2011 AQ and the Pakistanis (and the ISI) confirmed his death even though it didn't suit them to do so. The relatives from the compound confirmed, genetic samples matched and certain senators on both sides (Dem and Rep) have seen the 3 sets of photos - some politicians have argued the photos should be released, others have said they would only serve to incite violence (according to those who have seen them, the photos are graphic, with a significant portion of the skull blown away exposing the brain)

3 photos and an 'admission' by AQ is extremely poor evidence.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 14-02-2019 12:12pm

King Mob wrote: »

Given that your other examples of "real" conspiracies didn't survive a 2 minute googling...

The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the Dublin and Monaghan Bombing for sure had support from British secret services, the WMD in Iraq.

King Mob · 14-02-2019 12:34pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Who decides what's blatantly false? Faceless names behind a multinational corporation?

People who have the same common sense you use to decide that the vast majority of conspiracy theories are nonsense.

How do you decide between "real" conspiracy theories that are worth considering and "fake" conspiracy theories that can be dismissed out of hand?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the Dublin and Monaghan Bombing for sure had support from British secret services, the WMD in Iraq.

I was referring to your notion that doctors do not study or recommend meditation. And to the idea that Edward Snowden didn't use mainstream media outlets to leak his information.
Both of these things weren't true.

And again, of these conspiracies, all were broken in the mainstream media, not via randos in 4 hour long youtube videos.

Dohnjoe · 14-02-2019 12:46pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

3 photos and an 'admission' by AQ is extremely poor evidence.

The state of Pakistan fully acknowledging and accepting that he lived, and died, a stone's throw from their military academy (which was highly embarrassing for them)
A post-fact Pakistani investigation confirming he had lived there for 9 years
AQ accepting that he died in that raid
The US president and senators on both sides confirming his death
DNA samples taken from his corpse, and matching family members in the compound
The family members in the compound confirming (including his wives, 22 people in total)
No contradictory information from any other foreign intelligence agency (including hostile nations)

vs

Some random guy claiming he might have died before of kidney failure somewhere in the mountains

Cheerful Spring · 14-02-2019 2:10pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The state of Pakistan fully acknowledging and accepting that he lived, and died, a stone's throw from their military academy (which was highly embarrassing for them)

A post-fact Pakistani investigation confirming he had lived there for 9 years

AQ accepting that he died in that raid

The US president and senators on both sides confirming his death

DNA samples taken from his corpse, and matching family members in the compound

The family members in the compound confirming (including his wives, 22 people in total)

No contradictory information from any other foreign intelligence agency (including hostile nations)

vs
Some random guy claiming he might have died before of kidney failure somewhere in the mountains

So you believe the CIA and NSA did not know Bin Laden was living there for nine years?

Pakistan ISI did not tell their allies, the most wanted terrorist in the world, was living in the same city alongside the Pakistani military elite?

How was it done when America is well known to eavesdrop on conversations allies have? They definitely were listening into the Pakistani military and government communications.

Al Qaeda definitely existed but who were its backers and financiers? Saudi Arabia, UAE, Pakistan?

Dohnjoe · 14-02-2019 2:30pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

So you believe the CIA and NSA did not know Bin Laden was living there for nine years?

It's nothing to do with "belief", they didn't know. He was a big prize for any US president, but they literally couldn't find the guy, the trail went cold. Your TV/moves based paranoid incredulity drives you toward your conspiracy hobby as usual - to explain that so you can understand; you seem to think that NSA/CIA have these incredible amazing powers to pull off inside job after inside job, to be all-knowing, to be able to do anything, anyone - reality shows us they are VERY limited in what they can do, they often make mistakes and they often can't find people

That reality however doesnt fit your wonky paranoid perception of them and the world

As such your thinking follows to a tee the "I can't believe it, therefore conspiracy" that you conspiracy theorists have.

There are psychology articles on this

Cheerful Spring · 14-02-2019 2:51pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's nothing to do with "belief", they didn't know. He was a big prize for any US president, but they literally couldn't find the guy, the trail went cold. Your TV/moves based paranoid incredulity drives you toward your conspiracy hobby as usual - to explain that so you can understand; you seem to think that NSA/CIA have these incredible amazing powers to pull off inside job after inside job, to be all-knowing, to be able to do anything, anyone - reality shows us they are VERY limited in what they can do, they often make mistakes and they often can't find people

That reality however doesnt fit your wonky paranoid perception of them and the world

As such your thinking follows to a tee the "I can't believe it, therefore conspiracy" that you conspiracy theorists have.

There are psychology articles on this

Bin Laden and other men and women were living in a large compound right next door to the Pakistani military academy. He was not in a cave in some remote hideaway mountain and could not be found. You naive if you believe the Americans did know he was there for nine years. Pakistani officials would have talked in the nine years.

It's an established fact, not a conspiracy the CIA refused to share information with the FBI about the 9/11 hijackers. I don't believe a word the CIA says about the attacks and what took place. People like you don't want to know why they refused to share information that would have stopped 9/11.

15 Saudis involved in hijacking planes. Nobody noticed they were Al Qaeda operatives when they got Visas in CIA station in Jeddah Saudi Arabia? Have you not heard of the Malaysia Al Qaeda Meeting in 2000?

YouTube announces it will no longer recommend conspiracy videos

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