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Next governments affect on housing market

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  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭J_1980


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Why do you want the hard middle to get hurt. It should be the people who refuse to work.

    Yes, but the middle always vote and whine for social justice.
    Alimenting the bottom 20% too generously always punishes the middle class. See France, the yellow vests are all solid middle class and sick of high taxes, high costs and no public services. You won’t see yellow vest protests in the banlieue satellite cities of Paris.


  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭J_1980


    Will be very interesting to see what happens. Ironically just read in the Irish Independent that neither Finna Fail or Finna Gael will go into govt with SF.

    Looks like we are going to have another election so! Interesting times ahead.

    Doesn’t matter. Even the free market parties (fffg) have an excessive soft spot for welfare (5er more, Xmas bonus etc). People want that, and it’s without consequences in a boom. Payday is the recession.
    €120bn debt was just excessive government spending and nothing to do with bank bailout. That’ll happen again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    J_1980 wrote: »
    Yes, but the middle always vote and whine for social justice.
    Alimenting the bottom 20% too generously always punishes the middle class. See France, the yellow vests are all solid middle class and sick of high taxes, high costs and no public services. You won’t see yellow vest protests in the banlieue satellite cities of Paris.

    Excuse my ignorance but why won’t you see them protest in satellite cities?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭The Student


    J_1980 wrote: »
    Doesn’t matter. Even the free market parties (fffg) have an excessive soft spot for welfare (5er more, Xmas bonus etc). People want that, and it’s without consequences in a boom. Payday is the recession.
    €120bn debt was just excessive government spending and nothing to do with bank bailout. That’ll happen again.

    This may well be so but I would prefer FF or FG rather than those on the left. FF/FG actually see the economic reality of Ireland being an open economy and the need for FDI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭J_1980


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Excuse my ignorance but why won’t you see them protest in satellite cities?
    satellite cities have high unemployment and largely rely on welfare (not dissimilar to some areas in Ireland) .
    They don’t feel the pain of the people bankrolling it all.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Lofidelity


    Some in the industry are saying that demand is being met and supply of new builds will be reduced.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Exactly what is the definition of not working? how many are on courses who are "not working" how many are not making any income tax contributions?
    Apparently one of the reasons why French youth unemployment is so high is because they define "unemployed" as "not employed", rather than something like NEET.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Why do you want the hard middle to get hurt. It should be the people who refuse to work.

    Socialists hate the middle class,always have, they hate them for not having ever gotten behind the red cause, you can't have a successful revolution without the middle class , they view the working class as helpless


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Will be very interesting to see what happens. Ironically just read in the Irish Independent that neither Finna Fail or Finna Gael will go into govt with SF.

    Looks like we are going to have another election so! Interesting times ahead.

    Whilst more of a political thread topic, why would FF and FG not go into government again together? I really think the groundwork of the past 3 years will start to show in housing and, combined with a kick up the arse from the election just gone with respect to housing, whoever is in government between now and the next election will reap the rewards.

    The risk of another election is SF running more candidates and doing even better!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭The Student


    Whilst more of a political thread topic, why would FF and FG not go into government again together? I really think the groundwork of the past 3 years will start to show in housing and, combined with a kick up the arse from the election just gone with respect to housing, whoever is in government between now and the next election will reap the rewards.

    The risk of another election is SF running more candidates and doing even better!

    Agreed it is more a political point and I agree there housing situation is improving. I will leave the politics to the appropriate thread.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,388 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Whilst more of a political thread topic, why would FF and FG not go into government again together? I really think the groundwork of the past 3 years will start to show in housing and, combined with a kick up the arse from the election just gone with respect to housing, whoever is in government between now and the next election will reap the rewards.
    The risk of another election is SF running more candidates and doing even better!

    Given time and good weather in terms of the global economic situation yes. I think the policies would start to bear fruit.

    But the other risk is they go into together, there's a global economic recession OR some sort of catastrophe like coronavirus which cripples the health service - and at the next election SF have almost an overall majority...

    * Will leave it at that as don't want to go off topic

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Whilst more of a political thread topic, why would FF and FG not go into government again together? I really think the groundwork of the past 3 years will start to show in housing and, combined with a kick up the arse from the election just gone with respect to housing, whoever is in government between now and the next election will reap the rewards.

    The risk of another election is SF running more candidates and doing even better!

    SF would love to see FF and FG form a coalition, as would the rest of the parties


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,344 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Your post reads that you can't and then goes on to say well actually you can in certain circumstances.

    The following shows that attachment orders are available. http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefitshttp://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefits/

    It would not be unreasonable to assume that those not working and in receipt of social welfare would be claiming all available benefits some of which would not be "ring fenced".

    For those working the attachment would be placed on their income from employment.

    I would rather stop the rot now rather than do nothing about it.

    You think an order of €3 a week is a real consequence? I have explained that what you think will happen is not what will happen. If they do get a court order by a applying individual cases it costs more than they will ever get back and over a completely unrealistic time period.

    There are people who owe 10s of thousands and the are paying it back at €3 a week. Never ever to pay it off. This is the reality.

    Don't believe me if you don't want


  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭J_1980


    https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/



    Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
    #Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices :))


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,759 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    J_1980 wrote: »
    https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/



    Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
    #Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices :))


    Maria B
    Dara
    Regina



    Mick Wallace.

    Yep. It's a kip.
    And plenty from all parties getting elected who shouldn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    J_1980 wrote: »
    https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/
    Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
    #Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices :))
    Admittedly I am not sure what I hate more - the TD in question or the Murdoch-owned rag reporting it.. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    J_1980 wrote: »
    https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/



    Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
    #Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices :))

    Dara Murphy of FG was multiple times worse as he was an elected representative abusing the system but they're both pathetic excuses for representatives.

    The fact that the normal rent is €19000+ per annum in Dublin shows how devastating the last few years of "growth" have been. There are plenty who feel the benefits of the alleged recovery (not really sure if it is a recovery given our debt is still increasing) but at a severe cost to those caught in the rental system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    J_1980 wrote: »
    https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/



    Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
    #Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices :))
    She wasn't elected on the First count!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,979 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You think an order of €3 a week is a real consequence? I have explained that what you think will happen is not what will happen. If they do get a court order by a applying individual cases it costs more than they will ever get back and over a completely unrealistic time period.

    There are people who owe 10s of thousands and the are paying it back at €3 a week. Never ever to pay it off. This is the reality.

    Don't believe me if you don't want

    The funniest part about getting 3-5 Euro a week court orders on social welfare recipients is that they don't have to pay it. You can't take it directly from their social welfare payments, so you have go back to court and get a enforcement order.

    It's a simple matter of sitting back for like 7 years, then go back to court, pay 1k+ in fees and maybe recoup 1k.

    Morally or financially, pursuing arrears from social welfare recipients is just plain stupid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 cosybeach


    Dara Murphy of FG was multiple times worse as he was an elected representative abusing the system but they're both pathetic excuses for representatives.

    The fact that the normal rent is €19000+ per annum in Dublin shows how devastating the last few years of "growth" have been. There are plenty who feel the benefits of the alleged recovery (not really sure if it is a recovery given our debt is still increasing) but at a severe cost to those caught in the rental system.




    Is DM a rent defaulter?
    Your comparison with rent in Dublin doesn’t have anything to do with this new scumbag TD who refused to pay rent to a charity in a rural area not subject to a similar high rent in Dublin
    Not all rents in Dublin are high it is a popular media hype in fact many are still below market we did have a 2 year rent freeze 3 years ago so we know its effect....
    High rents are a symptom of risk “non-payment of rent” and short supply and left policies are proven not to work only reduce supply.
    when the multinationals leave there will be low rents again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,979 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    J_1980 wrote: »
    https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/



    Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
    #Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices :))

    Jesus, its a rag but the entire story is amazing.

    Elected as a TD to a party who based their policies on housing issues.
    For 4 years, didn't pay 63 Euros a week for a family of 5, including partner.
    Got evicted from a private social housing org which is near impossible.
    Org went bankrupt after, due to funding issues.
    Former* anti Vaxxer(the pinnacle of human stupidity at the moment).

    Perfect spokesperson for any SF housing policies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    Jesus, its a rag but the entire story is amazing.

    Elected as a TD to a party who based their policies on housing issues.
    For 4 years, didn't pay 63 Euros a week for a family of 5, including partner.
    Got evicted from a private social housing org which is near impossible.
    Org went bankrupt after, due to funding issues.
    Former* anti Vaxxer(the pinnacle of human stupidity at the moment).

    Perfect spokesperson for any SF housing policies.

    As bad as this 1 is she is likely not the worst of them to have been elected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,344 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    The funniest part about getting 3-5 Euro a week court orders on social welfare recipients is that they don't have to pay it. You can't take it directly from their social welfare payments, so you have go back to court and get a enforcement order.

    It's a simple matter of sitting back for like 7 years, then go back to court, pay 1k+ in fees and maybe recoup 1k.

    Morally or financially, pursuing arrears from social welfare recipients is just plain stupid.

    All true but apparently I just made it up according to the other guy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Subutai


    The funniest part about getting 3-5 Euro a week court orders on social welfare recipients is that they don't have to pay it. You can't take it directly from their social welfare payments, so you have go back to court and get a enforcement order.

    It's a simple matter of sitting back for like 7 years, then go back to court, pay 1k+ in fees and maybe recoup 1k.

    Morally or financially, pursuing arrears from social welfare recipients is just plain stupid.

    It can be taken directly from their Social Welfare payments. One can seek an attachment of earnings order on their social welfare payments. This reform was introduced in 2015.

    http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefits/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    cosybeach wrote: »
    Is DM a rent defaulter?
    Your comparison with rent in Dublin doesn’t have anything to do with this new scumbag TD who refused to pay rent to a charity in a rural area not subject to a similar high rent in Dublin
    Not all rents in Dublin are high it is a popular media hype in fact many are still below market we did have a 2 year rent freeze 3 years ago so we know its effect....
    High rents are a symptom of risk “non-payment of rent” and short supply and left policies are proven not to work only reduce supply.
    when the multinationals leave there will be low rents again.

    Of course they won't leave. At best, there will be a slowdown in expanding or some job losses whereby staff will just move on elsewhere.

    The more long term picture is the expense of social housing that will be required to look after all those people who were not able to buy their own home due to the ongoing rental crisis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,344 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Subutai wrote: »
    It can be taken directly from their Social Welfare payments. One can seek an attachment of earnings order on their social welfare payments. This reform was introduced in 2015.

    http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefits/

    You really aren't understanding what is being said here nor the link you are posting.

    There are tons of caluses there. What that says is the judge takes into consideration income and responsibilities. So like I said it will mean any court order will be for a minuscule amount over a very long period. The debt is never paid off and it costs more than will ever be paid back.

    You are talking about an ideal when we are talking about reality and real world effects. I worked on this I know it inside out. I know the reason for the law change. Very simple it was so they could enforce LPT and water charges. It wasn't to recover other debts. Relatively small amounts that could be deducted every year and force compliance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You really aren't understanding what is being said here nor the link you are posting.

    There are tons of caluses there. What that says is the judge takes into consideration income and responsibilities. So like I said it will mean any court order will be for a minuscule amount over a very long period. The debt is never paid off and it costs more than will ever be paid back.

    You are talking about an ideal when we are talking about reality and real world effects. I worked on this I know it inside out. I know the reason for the law change. Very simple it was so they could enforce LPT and water charges. It wasn't to recover other debts. Relatively small amounts that could be deducted every year and force compliance.

    In other words, people pay what they are meant to pay

    When did this culture of not paying for stuff in Ireland take hold?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,979 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Subutai wrote: »
    It can be taken directly from their Social Welfare payments. One can seek an attachment of earnings order on their social welfare payments. This reform was introduced in 2015.

    http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefits/

    Interesting. If I am reading this right, you have to go to the district court and prove they have the means to pay it to get the order right?

    Assuming its successful, what's the ROI on the solicitor fees for that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Subutai wrote: »
    It can be taken directly from their Social Welfare payments. One can seek an attachment of earnings order on their social welfare payments. This reform was introduced in 2015.

    http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefits/

    No Government is going to sanction an attachment to SW payments for rent owed. Anti-landlords sentiment is to strong for that to be considered. Landlords are “greedy”, no politician wants to be seen to be on their side yet many politicians are also LLs. In the eyes of many, LLs are a necessary evil, everyone acknowledges they are essential for the rental sector to exist, but they should not profit from their service. It’s bonkers, it is almost that they should operate as benevolent providers for the masses.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Subutai


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You really aren't understanding what is being said here nor the link you are posting.

    There are tons of caluses there. What that says is the judge takes into consideration income and responsibilities. So like I said it will mean any court order will be for a minuscule amount over a very long period. The debt is never paid off and it costs more than will ever be paid back.

    You are talking about an ideal when we are talking about reality and real world effects. I worked on this I know it inside out. I know the reason for the law change. Very simple it was so they could enforce LPT and water charges. It wasn't to recover other debts. Relatively small amounts that could be deducted every year and force compliance.


    I am responding to the claim that one cannot get an attachment order on social welfare payments. One can.

    That it is impossible to recoup money from somebody with no means is self evident.



    Interesting. If I am reading this right, you have to go to the district court and prove they have the means to pay it to get the order right?

    Assuming its successful, what's the ROI on the solicitor fees for that?

    You have to go to the District Court to get an enforcement order in any case.
    Dav010 wrote: »
    No Government is going to sanction an attachment to SW payments for rent owed. Anti-landlords sentiment is to strong for that to be considered. Landlords are “greedy”, no politician wants to be seen to be on their side yet many politicians are also LLs. In the eyes of many, LLs are a necessary evil, everyone acknowledges they are essential for the rental sector to exist, but they should not profit from their service. It’s bonkers, it is almost that they should operate as benevolent providers for the masses.

    Your rant is confused about the roles of the government and the judiciary.


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