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Tiny Homes

2

Comments

  • #32
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,353 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    Main problem seems to be the regulations which probably need updating.

    Regulations are updating all the time.
    We would need to downgrade the regulations to allow these structures and that’s not a good thing.


  • #33
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Esel wrote: »
    Would that be a timber or concrete houseboat? :)

    Actually there are a lot of concrete built boats and yes they do float.


  • #34
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    kceire wrote: »
    Regulations are updating all the time.
    We would need to downgrade the regulations to allow these structures and that’s not a good thing.

    People are building sand bag houses, wattle and daub houses and even the old mud type houses are super warm and require no insulation. I bet they would pass that part of regs.


  • #35
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,353 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Well would you be an idiot or just misinformed. Most of the oldest homes in the UK would be timber framed with whats called wattle and dawb in fills which is straw and cow **** to me and you.

    Then you have the 'cobb' homes which are just 3ft thick mud with a bit of straw and cow **** thrown in as well.

    You are talking 500 hundred possibly nearly a thousand years old.

    Log cabins in New Foundland back to 1550 and timber framed builds back to 1300's all continuously lived in........ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4593600/The-oldest-inhabitated-buildings-world.html

    50 years? You been listening to Roundstone too much mate. A timber home is far superior to a concrete block built home any day. In every possible way.

    Old UK mud built houses.......... https://www.google.ie/search?q=old+english+cobb+houses&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjy0p6ohM_nAhXSSEEAHbBaDM4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=old+english+cobb+houses&gs_l=img.12...11553.16566..19062...0.0..0.80.820.12......0....1..gws-wiz-img.6HXFAGqjXuQ&ei=woRFXvLpOdKRhbIPsLWx8Aw&bih=625&biw=1280&rlz=1C2ASUM_enIE870IE870

    Old wattle and dawb houses of England hundreds of years old. Just a timber frame with straw and mud or even hand made brick in fill. https://www.google.ie/search?q=English+wattle+and+daub+houses&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwinqcX6hM_nAhVVOMAKHTg8BI4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=English+wattle+and+daub+houses&gs_l=img.12...15229.17797..21276...0.0..0.70.539.8......0....1..gws-wiz-img.17jK3ZTLBT0&ei=b4VFXue1IdXwgAa4-JDwCA&bih=625&biw=1280&rlz=1C2ASUM_enIE870IE870
    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Woodworm can only live in damp wood. It cant live in a dry house. Termites do not exist in the UK or Ireland. Did they not teach you that in your civil engineering?

    You are correct about bridges but that is because of load and span. Did they not teach you that in civil engineering?

    They also use a fair bit of steel in factory built houses now. In fact the best roof for manufacture, installation and maintenance is a steel roof. Far superior to concrete and tile. Did they not teach you that in civil engineering?

    In fact they do make a lot of timber framed vinyl clad and steel formed sheet clad houses now and these are far superior to concrete block houses. Did they not teach you that in civil engineering?

    Concrete block and brick houses can require lots of after care. or again did nobody tell you that.

    When I see a concrete block house as old as a timber or mud house I may listen to you but being as concrete does not have a long shelf life as does brick which can start to decay after the same time which could be a couple of hundred years (not sure exact time span).

    Mod Mote

    Keep your comments civil please.
    Do not attack the the poster. Attack the information within the post.

    Consider this an on thread warning.

    No need to reply.


  • #36
    shivermetimber
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭shivermetimber


    Or an adoption of something similar to the one planet council they have in Wales (but this is more aimed at off grid style living / land working) - http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/about/


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  • #37
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,353 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    People are building sand bag houses, wattle and daub houses and even the old mud type houses are super warm and require no insulation. I bet they would pass that part of regs.

    I’m not aware of any in Ireland.
    They would require certification and I’m
    Not aware of any being built and certified.


  • #38
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    shivermetimber wrote: »
    Or an adoption of something similar to the one planet council they have in Wales - http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/about/

    The concrete industry rules the roost here so it has convinced everyone that concrete is best.


  • #39
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    kceire wrote: »
    I’m not aware of any in Ireland.
    They would require certification and I’m
    Not aware of any being built and certified.

    How are they going to cert something they are ignorant of?

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/newrossstandard/lifestyle/open-door-call-out-for-mud-walled-owners-37146701.html


  • #40
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    kceire wrote: »
    Mod Mote

    Keep your comments civil please.
    Do not attack the the poster. Attack the information within the post.

    Consider this an on thread warning.

    No need to reply.

    I didnt mean he was an idiot I meant would only a person who said such be one or misinformed.

    Bad wording on my part. I appologise.


  • #41
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,353 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    How are they going to cert something they are ignorant of?

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/newrossstandard/lifestyle/open-door-call-out-for-mud-walled-owners-37146701.html

    The people building them have to attain certification.
    How are they ignorant?


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  • #42
    Bit cynical
    Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    kceire wrote: »
    Regulations are updating all the time.
    We would need to downgrade the regulations to allow these structures and that’s not a good thing.
    May be necessary however.


  • #43
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    The back and forth is lovely but useless to the OP in ireland in 2020.

    Tiny homes or log cabins contravene planning and do not meet building regs.

    The council could have you demolish it at any stage.
    They may or may not be safe in fire.
    The seller will be long paid and long gone


  • #44
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    kceire wrote: »
    The people building them have to attain certification.
    How are they ignorant?

    If people are only taught one way and not shown there are alternatives and even better ways then nobody is ever going to make regs for such. You will only ever have regs for what they believe to be correct.

    The proof is out there that buildings can last far longer than any concrete building without regs.

    With proper regs then factory produced alternative will last just as long.

    But if you cannot build an alternative house because it will not pass regs because there are none because nobody ever did any for such.........Then it goes nowhere.


  • #45
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,353 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    If people are only taught one way and not shown there are alternatives and even better ways then nobody is ever going to make regs for such. You will only ever have regs for what they believe to be correct.

    The proof is out there that buildings can last far longer than any concrete building without regs.

    With proper regs then factory produced alternative will last just as long.

    But if you cannot build an alternative house because it will not pass regs because there are none because nobody ever did any for such.........Then it goes nowhere.

    Then the people building these structures and selling these structures test them and demonstrate by way of testing that they can meet the performance standards required for fire, heat loss and structure to name but a few.


  • #46
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    kceire wrote: »
    Then the people building these structures and selling these structures test them and demonstrate by way of testing that they can meet the performance standards required for fire, heat loss and structure to name but a few.

    Yes that is how 'other' products get passed. They will manufacture them to meet the laid down regs.

    I can see no way how a log cabin could ever fail. Unless there is a fire reg which traps it? I honestly dont know.


  • #47
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Yes that is how 'other' products get passed. They will manufacture them to meet the laid down regs.

    I can see no way how a log cabin could ever fail. Unless there is a fire reg which traps it? I honestly dont know.

    I'd hazard the ones in the OP at €57k fail on fire, insulation, air tightness.

    To meet all these and pour foundation, sewer system and GET PLANNING - you'd have a small timber frame or block house built


  • #48
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    I'd hazard the ones in the OP at €57k fail on fire, insulation, air tightness.

    To meet all these and pour foundation, sewer system and GET PLANNING - you'd have a small timber frame or block house built

    You can build a timber house without foundations. Very easily done no problem.


  • #49
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    You can build a timber house without foundations. Very easily done no problem.

    The founds for one would cost minimal money anyway.

    It's getting a one off prefab up to modern building regs that is the really costly issue.

    Remember the social housing modular build fiasco?


  • #50
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,001 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Actually there are a lot of concrete built boats and yes they do float.
    I already knew that.

    Before you comment further, I did not do Civil Engineering, nor am I an idiot.

    Not your ornery onager



  • #51
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Esel wrote: »
    I already knew that.

    Before you comment further, I did not do Civil Engineering, nor am I an idiot.

    Bad choice of words. I will never live that down.:o


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  • #52
    05eaftqbrs9jlh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭05eaftqbrs9jlh


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    Main problem seems to be the regulations which probably need updating.
    There are a couple of loopholes I've heard of that you can use to buy land and obtain planning. I don't want to get too specific but basically if you can justify your purchase of the property due to your value to the local area, that will be advantageous. Then if you have a temporary structure on the land for a certain period of time, then subject to planning, you can begin to develop it for the required purpose.
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    People have already gone through this numerous times. If you must prove it to yourself go for it but you are going to be just trying to come up with a theory how it will be legal. Whatever you discover will not change reality. There are people living in them but at any point the council can arrive and say take it down. If you try to sell it you will be lucky and it will be a huge loss if you do.
    Thanks for the input. You might want to relax a small bit. I'm not about to dive headfirst a bad investment. We're examining our options and I was looking for a bit of advice, which you've been good enough to give and I appreciate it.
    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    The back and forth is lovely but useless to the OP in ireland in 2020.

    Tiny homes or log cabins contravene planning and do not meet building regs.

    The council could have you demolish it at any stage.
    They may or may not be safe in fire.
    The seller will be long paid and long gone
    You're right about that and it's definitely something to bear in mind. A camper van would be a lot more economical, safe and cost effective when you square up the two options.

    This thread got very impassioned. It's not surprising, given the fact that sourcing a home is such an immense undertaking these days. There was an article in the paper the other day about a poet or writer or someone in a Gaeltacht area who had land belonging to his family and I think he couldn't get planning to develop the small modular structure he had on it because of the regulations they have around rural builds. His was a particularly isolated locality, I wish I could remember enough to search for the article because it's so relevant.


  • #53
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    The founds for one would cost minimal money anyway.

    It's getting a one off prefab up to modern building regs that is the really costly issue.

    Remember the social housing modular build fiasco?

    I did see an eco kit house which was energy free passive house. It was imported from Germany and put on concrete blocks. No foundations. A fella I knew in Wicklow.


  • #54
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    For what reason. People do what 'they' want not what you think they should.

    People live in modular and log cabins or timber house around the world. So how come they aren't any good?

    The idea of arsing around in mud for 6 months building a house out of thousands of little pieces is so prehistoric it is beyond a joke.

    Houses just like everything else should be made in factories efficiently out of suitable materials and assembled in a few days on site.

    The idiocy of what we do now and the costs just do not make sense.

    We do what we do now due to regulations and planning law, neither of which will be changed just because someting....somewhere..... Feel free to come back to real world when you get a chance.


  • #55
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »
    There are a couple of loopholes I've heard of that you can use to buy land and obtain planning. I don't want to get too specific but basically if you can justify your purchase of the property due to your value to the local area, that will be advantageous. Then if you have a temporary structure on the land for a certain period of time, then subject to planning, you can begin to develop it for the required purpose..

    I'm afraid such loop holes are not in existence. At least not that I'm aware of.

    Being advantageous to the local area is not a loophole it is a qualification for Local Needs.
    Working in the area is generally another.
    Being from the area is another.

    Temp structure to permanent is a no go.
    "Habitable" existing structures are a way of getting past the Local Needs.

    All above varies with each local authority in fact i'm sure in some counties (I think Tipp or Waterford kinda areas) you could just buy a decent site and get planning. But deffo not in dublin, Meath, louth, kildare, wiklow, galway or anywhere people generally want to live for work.

    Likes of Meath are going to close this down tightly by end 2020.
    All talk is that you'll need to have 25 acres or so to get local needs. Building will be limited back to defined villages and towns.


  • #56
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    I did see an eco kit house which was energy free passive house. It was imported from Germany and put on concrete blocks. No foundations. A fella I knew in Wicklow.

    I'm sure there is.
    I'm also sure if it were cheaper than traditional build it would be advertised and theyd be everywhere.

    BTW I'm all for prefabbed done right. Should be better finish than built on site in our weather. Just in construction the general rule is that anything prebuilt or forecast or prefabbed is dearer and you save by being efficient.
    So an estate built in factory and dropped off trucks is dearer than building on site but by saving programme and site costs you make money


  • #57
    shivermetimber
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭shivermetimber


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    I'm afraid such loop holes are not in existence. At least not that I'm aware of.

    Being advantageous to the local area is not a loophole it is a qualification for Local Needs.
    Working in the area is generally another.
    Being from the area is another.

    Temp structure to permanent is a no go.
    "Habitable" existing structures are a way of getting past the Local Needs.

    All above varies with each local authority in fact i'm sure in some counties (I think Tipp or Waterford kinda areas) you could just buy a decent site and get planning. But deffo not in dublin, Meath, louth, kildare, wiklow, galway or anywhere people generally want to live for work.

    Likes of Meath are going to close this down tightly by end 2020.
    All talk is that you'll need to have 25 acres or so to get local needs. Building will be limited back to defined villages and towns.


    Getting a bit sidetracked but I thought I read somewhere that the whole local needs thing was being done away with?


  • #58
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    I'm sure there is.
    I'm also sure if it were cheaper than traditional build it would be advertised and theyd be everywhere.

    BTW I'm all for prefabbed done right. Should be better finish than built on site in our weather. Just in construction the general rule is that anything prebuilt or forecast or prefabbed is dearer and you save by being efficient.
    So an estate built in factory and dropped off trucks is dearer than building on site but by saving programme and site costs you make money

    Dunno but this thing wasnt cheap and he had the doors open because it was always too warm! It was about 10 years ago.


  • #59
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »

    Likes of Meath are going to close this down tightly by end 2020.
    All talk is that you'll need to have 25 acres or so to get local needs. Building will be limited back to defined villages and towns.


    Building in countryside then travelling to work is nuts. I blame all them tv programs.

    Only people who work in countryside should be allowed to live there.


  • #60
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    shivermetimber wrote: »
    Getting a bit sidetracked but I thought I read somewhere that the whole local needs thing was being done away with?

    Talking to the engineers and planners in Meath the other day.
    It wont be called local needs.
    Basically their new development plan is going to cut any unnecessary builds down to defined villages and centres.
    Necessary will be for those farming over a certain acreage only!! ...... so they get away from local needs altogether. Ideally they want no more one housing

    Unless a politician or 2 gets in their way knowing this country.


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  • #61
    shivermetimber
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭shivermetimber


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    I'm sure there is.
    I'm also sure if it were cheaper than traditional build it would be advertised and theyd be everywhere.

    BTW I'm all for prefabbed done right. Should be better finish than built on site in our weather. Just in construction the general rule is that anything prebuilt or forecast or prefabbed is dearer and you save by being efficient.
    So an estate built in factory and dropped off trucks is dearer than building on site but by saving programme and site costs you make money


    ecohouse.ie were advertising a full spec (hrv, underfloor heat, pv solar, triple glazed) 3 bed 110sqm passive standard modular sip build for 150k ex vat plus site works, a year or two ago. Modular so I'd imagine this could be scaled up and down to suit the modules. Build time was 8-12 weeks and a few weeks on site iirc. Do you reckon that would work out cheaper then a comparable traditional build in the end or the same?


This discussion has been closed.
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