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I bought a car with outstanding finance

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24

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    #32
    This is it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭This is it


    Is it possible, however unlikely, that the previous owner would use this cash to buy a new car and continue paying the finance? Same as a loan.

    Seems like strong money for an Insignia but that's neither here nor there.


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    #33
    This is it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭This is it


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Has he any way to get that CCTV besides lying to a Garda, I don't think Tesco have any obligation to give it to anyone else.
    If he did happen to get hold of the guy on the phone and he told him to f-off or he'll kill him, it's no longer civil it's criminal then.

    With all the data protection laws it would need an official Garda request for most to hand over CCTV, especially larger stores I'd imagine


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    #34
    chiefwiggum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,592 ✭✭✭chiefwiggum


    A completely ****ty situation you find yourself.. hope you get it sorted.. the seller could still pay the finance company.. could be a different situation by Monday.. best of luck


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    #35
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭893bet


    Have you called to the address you were given?


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    #36
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,708 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    OP, this is a relatively complex area of the law. You will get different answers depending on who you talk to in relation to this. I would say you would get different answers depending on what lawyer you talked to, if you were to go to one.

    My view and it is long held is that you should not be left out of pocket by the criminal act of another and there are legal provisions that in the circumstances described would appear to avail themselves to you.


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    #37
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,097 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Gturek86 wrote: »
    Ok, I will write the whole story again for clarification.

    On Saturday 18/07, I found a car on donedeal.ie. (2014 Opel Insignia 2.0 CDTI Elite) with 61000Miles. Advertised for the price of 10K. To be honest, right now I cant even remember whether or not the car was green light verified or not as I have seen hundreds of them car ads in the past month and now the ad is gone. I contacted the seller on the phone and he gave me the address(Home address mind you). I checked it on the map and noticed there is a Tesco car park nearby and proposed for the meeting to be there. Somehow I felt more secure in a more crowded place whilst having money with me.

    I got there with my brother in law around 4pm. And few minutes later The guy arrived with his family. It was an older (around 60yo) man with his wife, his friend (or son) and this friend's daughter (looked 12yo). We asked a few questions, looked into the service book which was current with the last service 2 months ago, valid NCT and 12 days left of motor tax. My brother in law inspected the car thoroughly. It took him about half an hour. Afterwards, I went for a test drive with the man whilst my brother in law stayed with the rest of the guy's family. After I got back, my brother in law was the one to take a drive to see if everything else was ok and told me afterwards that all is good with the car. I filled out the logbook, we all counted the money. I made pictures of the filled logbook with the addresses and everything, said our goodbyes and we went home with the car.

    Yesterday, a friend of mine mentioned that I should have done the finance check which I didn't even consider was a thing. Didn't know that you get a logbook whilst paying back a car to the bank. The motorcheck.ie showed that there is an outstanding finance on the car taken on 31/05/2019 for 48 months. There was a note there that it might not be 100% acurate as there might be a delay in reports from the bank. So, I clicked on the "Verify finance" option and got an email this morning that there is in fact an outstanding finance with AIB and it is "Not Cleared". The phone to the seller is dead.

    I called citizen information today first asking what can I do (No on-site visitations due to covid) and was informed thet there is very little I can do apart from contacting the solicitor, but even then chances of getting back the money might lie between slim and nill.
    The gards told me it is a civil matter and I should contact solicitor. I rang a friend who is a manager in Ulster Bank asking whether or not she can advise me something. And right now she is making some calls as I write this.

    Ok If it was serviced 2mts ago the garage they'll know the owner.
    AIB are the finance company? Talk to them and tell them the story, are you friends with any Garda or friend of a friend, if they could get you the CCTV and details from who had it serviced.
    You'll need to start pulling some favours.

    Did they look like an ordinary family? Nothing to raise an eyebrow? They might clear the finance you never know.


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    #38
    monkeysnapper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭monkeysnapper


    chiefwiggum wrote: »
    A completely ****ty situation you find yourself.. hope you get it sorted.. the seller could still pay the finance company.. could be a different situation by Monday.. best of luck

    I was thinking the exact same thing ..... why would you drag all your family to a car sale , if you were going to rip someone off youd want as little people at the crime scene as possible surely ....

    Is there any other cameras locally that can be used . ...

    Totally what drunk monkey said ... time to get favours out of people .

    I can tell you it always depends on the guard you get .... you dont think your getting joy out of one , ask another and keep going till you get what you need ...


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    #39
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,097 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    monkeysnapper wrote: »
    why would you drag all your family to a car sale , if you were going to rip someone off youd want as little people at the crime scene as possible surely ....

    Some families don't give a hoot, just training up the young fellas, I've seen 4yr old shop lifters.


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    #40
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,115 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    I didn't think you could do hire purchase on a car that age, it would have been 5 years old on 31/05/2019. (I know you can take out a car loan but that's not secured on the car)

    Looks like AIB will do hire purchase on any car once value is €10k or more...
    Key Information
    If you’re an AIB customer you can apply in branch or over the phone
    100% Finance Available - no deposit required, subject to credit assessments
    Fixed Interest rate of 8.45% APR (based on a typical agreement over 4 years)
    Flexible repayment terms (from 2 to 5 years for used cars and 6 years for NEW cars)
    Ownership of the car transfers to you once all instalments are made
    Hire Purchase allows you to borrow money over a fixed period. The car becomes your property when you have paid the final instalment due under the agreement

    https://aib.ie/our-products/loans/car-finance


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    #41
    ThunderCat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭ThunderCat


    Gturek86 wrote: »
    Ok, I will write the whole story again for clarification.

    On Saturday 18/07, I found a car on donedeal.ie. (2014 Opel Insignia 2.0 CDTI Elite) with 61000Miles. Advertised for the price of 10K. To be honest, right now I cant even remember whether or not the car was green light verified or not as I have seen hundreds of them car ads in the past month and now the ad is gone. I contacted the seller on the phone and he gave me the address(Home address mind you). I checked it on the map and noticed there is a Tesco car park nearby and proposed for the meeting to be there. Somehow I felt more secure in a more crowded place whilst having money with me.

    I got there with my brother in law around 4pm. And few minutes later The guy arrived with his family. It was an older (around 60yo) man with his wife, his friend (or son) and this friend's daughter (looked 12yo). We asked a few questions, looked into the service book which was current with the last service 2 months ago, valid NCT and 12 days left of motor tax. My brother in law inspected the car thoroughly. It took him about half an hour. Afterwards, I went for a test drive with the man whilst my brother in law stayed with the rest of the guy's family. After I got back, my brother in law was the one to take a drive to see if everything else was ok and told me afterwards that all is good with the car. I filled out the logbook, we all counted the money. I made pictures of the filled logbook with the addresses and everything, said our goodbyes and we went home with the car.

    Yesterday, a friend of mine mentioned that I should have done the finance check which I didn't even consider was a thing. Didn't know that you get a logbook whilst paying back a car to the bank. The motorcheck.ie showed that there is an outstanding finance on the car taken on 31/05/2019 for 48 months. There was a note there that it might not be 100% acurate as there might be a delay in reports from the bank. So, I clicked on the "Verify finance" option and got an email this morning that there is in fact an outstanding finance with AIB and it is "Not Cleared". The phone to the seller is dead.

    I called citizen information today first asking what can I do (No on-site visitations due to covid) and was informed thet there is very little I can do apart from contacting the solicitor, but even then chances of getting back the money might lie between slim and nill.
    The gards told me it is a civil matter and I should contact solicitor. I rang a friend who is a manager in Ulster Bank asking whether or not she can advise me something. And right now she is making some calls as I write this.


    Try using the wayback machine and viewing the website as it was, say a week ago, to see the ad again:

    archive.org/web/


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    #42
    unhappys10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭unhappys10


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    There is no slip you tear off?

    There is.


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    #43
    Millionaire only not
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Millionaire only not


    There’s few things sticking out here
    1 car sounds dear if it was fraud they’d take quick punt be gone . There credit must be good as AIB sticky giving out money only gave it last year

    2 bringing family along is either a bluff to convince u it was legitimate, only u can decide how bonafida they were looking back .

    3 they may clear finance once they had the money
    , most people wouldn’t have it to clear before a sale but u should be giving the money directly to finance and giving them the balance.

    4 your are told time and time again not to meet people only at the house and make sure u ask to use the bathroom to make sure it’s there house .

    5 don’t hand over that car to Gardaí or finance ,. hide it till this is resolved, it’s a criminal matter and they’ll have to follow it up if there’s no car ! If u hand over the car Uve lost . and neither finance Gardaí will help u .

    6 u asked me earlier about costs , yes your car has now added costs of late payments, getting crowd to find it and repossess it , more administration costs etc .
    It’s all be added on to what’s already owed on the car . U know what banks are like !

    7 don’t worry the mistake is made now so just make the best of a bad situation it may all be resolved by weekend in your favour.


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    #44
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,618 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Millionaire only not wrote: »
    hide it till this is resolved, it’s a criminal matter and they’ll have to follow it up if there’s no car ! If u hand over the car Uve lost . and neither finance Gardaí will help u .
    .

    Absolutely do not recommend that people do things like this


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    #45
    SetOverSet
    Registered Users Posts: 421 ✭✭SetOverSet


    This is it wrote: »
    With all the data protection laws it would need an official Garda request for most to hand over CCTV, especially larger stores I'd imagine

    They certainly wouldn't release it to the OP, and I don't know if they'd even entertain such a request from a member of the public so to speak, but perhaps it might be worth writing to the manager, explaining what has happened and asking them at lest to preserve it for now, until you figure out how to proceed?


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    #46
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Op , the seller may well plan on clearing the finance with the cash you paid him .. ( hopefully ) ,
    I also don't see why the gardai would say it's a civil matter , if someone offered a car for sale that belongs to a finance company that's some sort of fraud / offering for sale under false pretenses ...even if the gardai just rang the previous holder of the car / and saw it was at the address you have for the seller it could help you along ...
    Keep trying gardai ... Sometimes persistence pays off ...
    If the finance company reposes "your" new car that covers his ( dodgy seller's ) finance bill ... And you end up with nothing ... If there's no repossession for whatever reason he still owes the money .... ( You still end up with nothing ) ....

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #47
    captivo
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭captivo


    Contact Donedeal, they maybe able help to track the seller down


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    #48
    Juwwi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,244 ✭✭✭Juwwi


    Gturek86 wrote: »

    I filled out the logbook, we all counted the money. I made pictures of the filled logbook with the addresses and everything, said our goodbyes and we went home with the car.



    Do you have a picture of the mans address on your phone ?


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Really interested to see how this turns out. Hopefully well.


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    #50
    hierro
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭hierro


    Best of luck with this. I'm inclined to believe it will all work out and he will make right with the finance company. Back to the Gardaí with this.

    Think back on your conversation with the seller, I'm sure you asked all the appropriate questions about the car and it's history and you were assured that all was correct and right.

    You obviously never knew about checking the car for finance and write off history etc. until you spoke to your friend post purchase.

    This is a fraudulent act. The car was not his to sell and he ought to have known this. Fine, the eagle eagles may say not, but it should be investigated.


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    #51
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    There is a decent possibility the seller will clear the finance.

    You bought Saturday. Today was Thursday.

    I talked to VW finance last week and only got a letter for outstanding balance in today's post.

    They might be just sorting it all out now.


    But I'd err on the side of caution.
    Lot of decent advice above


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    #52
    staples7
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭staples7


    I also think there’s a strong possibility your jumping the gun here. I bought a car in the last 6 months. I had found out that it was still under pcp before buying. The seller advised that they were using my cash to clear pcp. Obviously this was not going to work for me so we agreed they cleared it themselves first ( presumably by loan). Also they should not have tried to sell a car with pcp owing. I did the finance check a few days after the pcp was Suppose to be cleared and finance still showed as owing. So we rang vw bank together when I was taking the car and they confirmed that pcp was cleared in full. Seller was completely honest and forwarded me the letter confirming this again later that week. My point being this could simply be the finance will either be cleared soon or will be payed off monthly as normal without anyone ever coming looking to reclaim car. But I understand it’s the not knowing is the issue.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think you have lost 9 grand. Find out what is still owed to the finance company. You may have to pay that worst case scenario. It may not be that much.

    But hopefully the guy has paid it off anyway as he won't want a bad credit rating.


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    #54
    Gturek86
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Gturek86


    Ok there is some update. I managed to contact the seller. When I was trying to contact him before his phone must have been really switched off. Anyways, gave him a call around 7pm yesterday (Thursday) but talking with him over the phone was a bit of a mess because of his bad english. Apparently he still pays of the loan on the car regularly from what I could understand and also he got another car from the same dealer 2 days prior my purchase. He told this to my brother in law on the day of purchase but I must have missed it. Just today I have confirmed this with my brother in law.

    Next the way of this guy's thinking was weird. When I talked with him over the phone yesterday he seemed to see no flaws with the fact that he sold me the car still on hire purchase. He kept repeating "I pay for car every month and will continue untill the end" with a hint of anger. The younger fellow that was with him on Sunday was in fact his son and said his father took a second finance for another car just before I bought this one from him.

    It seems to me that he simply does not understand what he did and sold me the car unknowingly of possible recourse but I simply could not get through to him on that matter as if he did not understand what I was saying.

    So from what I learned he now pays for two separate loans. I'm gonna try finding someone who speaks Russian/Lithuanian and talk with him again. Perhaps he indeed does intend on paying the loan.

    The bank manager friend said she will try pulling some strings to find out whether or not he pays them.

    Because of this whole ordeal, I could not get a wink of sleep last night and I'm bearly standing right now. I'm gonna update you lads on how this storey will be unfolding. Maybe I really did jump the gun.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SetOverSet wrote: »
    They certainly wouldn't release it to the OP, and I don't know if they'd even entertain such a request from a member of the public so to speak
    In relation to this, pop in to Tesco with a written, dated letter, asking for the footage from a manager. If you are visible or identifiable in the footage, then they are obligated to provide you with the footage.
    You might be waiting a few weeks for them to begrudgingly do it, but the sooner you get there and get your (dated) request in, the less likely they are to shrug their shoulders and say 'we already recorded over it".


    From page 17 of this document from dataprotection.ie
    Document:
    https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-05/CCTV%20guidance%20data%20controller.pdf

    Providing Access to CCTV to Data Subjects

    Data protection law provides for a right of access to their personal data by individuals. This applies to any individual whose identifiable image has been recorded by a CCTV system. When a data controller receives a request from an individual to access CCTV data, they must normally respond within one month. To facilitate the processing of the request, the controller may ask the individual to give a reasonable indication of the date and time of the footage they are looking for. If the recording has already been deleted on the date on which the request is received, the defined retention period having expired, the individual should be informed that the footage no longer exists. If an access request has been received, the footage should not be deleted until the request has been fulfilled.
    They are also obligated to blur other people's faces, but it's likely they won't bother, as it's a lot of hassle. Either way, though, get the request for CCTV in NOW rather than waiting 'to see what happens' as Tesco will drag their feet.


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    #56
    This is it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭This is it


    Gturek86 wrote: »
    Ok there is some update. I managed to contact the seller. When I was trying to contact him before his phone must have been really switched off. Anyways, gave him a call around 7pm yesterday (Thursday) but talking with him over the phone was a bit of a mess because of his bad english. Apparently he still pays of the loan on the car regularly from what I could understand and also he got another car from the same dealer 2 days prior my purchase. He told this to my brother in law on the day of purchase but I must have missed it. Just today I have confirmed this with my brother in law.

    Next the way of this guy's thinking was weird. When I talked with him over the phone yesterday he seemed to see no flaws with the fact that he sold me the car still on hire purchase. He kept repeating "I pay for car every month and will continue untill the end" with a hint of anger. The younger fellow that was with him on Sunday was in fact his son and said his father took a second finance for another car just before I bought this one from him.

    It seems to me that he simply does not understand what he did and sold me the car unknowingly of possible recourse but I simply could not get through to him on that matter as if he did not understand what I was saying.

    So from what I learned he now pays for two separate loans. I'm gonna try finding someone who speaks Russian/Lithuanian and talk with him again. Perhaps he indeed does intend on paying the loan.

    The bank manager friend said she will try pulling some strings to find out whether or not he pays them.

    Because of this whole ordeal, I could not get a wink of sleep last night and I'm bearly standing right now. I'm gonna update you lads on how this storey will be unfolding. Maybe I really did jump the gun.

    Presume he doesn't understand the difference between a loan and hire purchase and the fact that the car was not his to sell under hire purchase, not until the final payment was made.

    Not sure where you should go, would be best to get your money back of possible.


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    #57
    Francescoli
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭Francescoli


    OP now that you have made contact with the seller and he doesnt seem to know what he did was fraud
    Id be telling him to give you back your money and both of you move on.

    Do not entertain the idea he will keep paying off the finance each month.


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    #58
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,739 ✭✭✭893bet


    He is prob not paying two loans. He used your money to buy the other car out right I would assume.

    It’s a risky situation all round still for the next 4 years.


  • Options
    #59
    Sebastian Dangerfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,793 ✭✭✭Sebastian Dangerfield


    893bet wrote: »
    He is prob not paying two loans. He used your money to buy the other car out right I would assume.

    It’s a risky situation all round still for the next 4 years.

    Yeah I'd get out of this asap if at all possible. Perhaps unbeknownst to him, he's asking you to be exposed to his credit risk for the next 4 years. Even if there is nothing untoward going on, he can get sick, lose his source of income etc.


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    #60
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Even worse, leave the country.... Quite a few at that getting loans and never come back....


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    #61
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    This is it wrote: »
    With all the data protection laws it would need an official Garda request for most to hand over CCTV, especially larger stores I'd imagine


    person crashed into my wife in tesco and legged it
    they would only let garda view CCTV.


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