General Star Trek thread

Justin Credible Darts · 22-01-2021 1:18pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

whatever about in the past, intros are a bit redundant in an era where people binge watch multiple episodes back to back.
I do like that netflix's option to skip intro on most series now

hate to break it to you, but we were fast fowarding that in the time of videos.

Even when kids watching the sunday matinee, we would be getting the cup of tea while the credits were rolling.

nyarlothothep · 25-01-2021 2:25pm

Did anyone notice in the Barclay transporter episode that Riker is a massive dick to Barclay? When Barclay determines that there is a serious fault with the transporters he alerts the senior staff. He finds this out by exposing himself to his greatest fear repeatedly after getting attacked by the microbe thing in a cruel twist of fate. All Riker can do is roll his eyes as Barclay gives his explanation. Worf, the giga-Chad, who you'd expect to laugh at Barclay is actually respectful and takes him seriously. Once Barclay's discovery is confirmed does Riker show him an inch of sympathy? No! Barclay requests he perform the experiment with Geordi, despite being traumatised by his transporter experience and Riker brusquely grants it while pointing his finger in Barclay's face, giving a little passive aggressive anticipatory reprimand "take all the necessary precautions". You don't say Riker? Here is a man who has transporter phobia, has been attacked by an alien creature in the transport stream, has weird radioactive contamination in his arm and you need to remind him to play it safe because you think he'll forget? A little bit of tact and understanding wouldn't go amiss.

There are other instances of Riker being a bullying, overbearing pompous ass to his subordinates (unless he wants to have sex with them), the lower decks episode is one example if I remember correctly. I can grant his posturing with Shelby as those overly-ambitious, try to upstage you types are insufferable but otherwise, Riker is supremely petty with lower ranks. Data would have made a better XO.

pixelburp · 25-01-2021 6:50pm

So just saw a mention in passing about Kate Mulgrew's involvement in the animated Academy show, and given the success of Lower Decks ... I wonder. Is Trek going to slowly pivot towards being a predominantly animated show?

Between CoVid causing real problems to location shoots, the greater expense of live-action TV anyway - and just the overall better reception of the animated shows - part of me's theorising that CBS / Paramount might start to slowly kill off its live-action projects in favour of cartoons. Or, probably not, but kinda got me thinking all the same.

breezy1985 · 25-01-2021 7:13pm

pixelburp wrote: »

So just saw a mention in passing about Kate Mulgrew's involvement in the animated Academy show, and given the success of Lower Decks ... I wonder. Is Trek going to slowly pivot towards being a predominantly animated show?

Between CoVid causing real problems to location shoots, the greater expense of live-action TV anyway - and just the overall better reception of the animated shows - part of me's theorising that CBS / Paramount might start to slowly kill off its live-action projects in favour of cartoons. Or, probably not, but kinda got me thinking all the same.

Lower Decks was to tap into the adult cartoon scene which is pretty strong and Academy is a nickelodeon show for younger people so not unusual.

There is more DIS, Picard to come plus Strange New Worlds and Section 31 so live action doesn't look to be going anywhere

25-01-2021 7:26pm

pixelburp wrote: »

So just saw a mention in passing about Kate Mulgrew's involvement in the animated Academy show, and given the success of Lower Decks ... I wonder. Is Trek going to slowly pivot towards being a predominantly animated show?

Between CoVid causing real problems to location shoots, the greater expense of live-action TV anyway - and just the overall better reception of the animated shows - part of me's theorising that CBS / Paramount might start to slowly kill off its live-action projects in favour of cartoons. Or, probably not, but kinda got me thinking all the same.

I hope not. As bad as Discovery and Picard have been, I have zero interest in their place being taken by jokey animated shows. Lower Decks is atrocious.

a_squirrelman · 25-01-2021 7:31pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I hope not. As bad as Discovery and Picard have been, I have zero interest in their place being taken by jokey animates shows. Lower Decks is atrocious.

Ah now, Lower Decks is savage.

pixelburp · 25-01-2021 7:35pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Lower Decks was to tap into the adult cartoon scene which is pretty strong and Academy is a nickelodeon show for younger people so not unusual.

There is more DIS, Picard to come plus Strange New Worlds and Section 31 so live action doesn't look to be going anywhere

Has either section 31 or Strange New World's even started production yet though? Certainly the former seemed still in a weird maybe state of limbo. And presumably Picard has a much more limited shelf life in any case for more obvious, real world reasons...

breezy1985 · 25-01-2021 7:38pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Has either section 31 or Strange New World's even started production yet though? Certainly the former seemed still in a weird maybe state of limbo. And presumably Picard has a much more limited shelf life in any case for more obvious, real world reasons...

All stopped for Covid but they are happening barring a tragedy with Picard

ilovesmybrick · 25-01-2021 9:10pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I hope not. As bad as Discovery and Picard have been, I have zero interest in their place being taken by jokey animated shows. Lower Decks is atrocious.

I have to say, Lower Decks was the best of the three this year. Picard follows after with the same rating as maybe season three TNG, Disco might be rated somehwhere around first season TNG, at a stretch.

25-01-2021 9:14pm

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I have to say, Lower Decks was the best of the three this year. Picard follows after with the same rating as maybe season three TNG, Disco might be rated somehwhere around first season TNG, at a stretch.

I wouldn’t even have a spoofy cartoon in the same comparison as the proper shows. For me there were only two Star Trek series the past year, even if they were bad.

pixelburp · 25-01-2021 9:23pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

All stopped for Covid but they are happening barring a tragedy with Picard

As I'm reading it, section 31 was first announced back in Jan 2019; that was 1+ years before CoVid threw it's giant spanner, yet I can't see any concrete info this show was every really happening TBH. Bar that Terran episode to put Georghiu back into the past. I'd honestly stick my neck out at this stage, and say Section 31 won't happen. Not when between it and Strange New Worlds, the latter appears to have genuine fan goodwill behind it.

ilovesmybrick · 25-01-2021 9:31pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I wouldn’t even have a spoofy cartoon in the same comparison as the proper shows. For me there were only two Star Trek series the past year, even if they were bad.

Each to their own. I was initially incredibly dubious of the concept of Lower Decks, but for me it got the right balance of reverance to the source material, while pulling the piss out of some of the nonsense. I was engaged with Picard because of Picard as a character, I engaged with Lower Decks because I felt they took the obvious parts of Trek that we can pull the piss out off and made a great homage to it, while also developing characters in a way that I felt works in the universe. How the Barclay's can succeed in a world. all about high achievers. I can't say I engaged with Discovery in the same manner.

breezy1985 · 25-01-2021 11:49pm

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Each to their own. I was initially incredibly dubious of the concept of Lower Decks, but for me it got the right balance of reverance to the source material, while pulling the piss out of some of the nonsense. I was engaged with Picard because of Picard as a character, I engaged with Lower Decks because I felt they took the obvious parts of Trek that we can pull the piss out off and made a great homage to it, while also developing characters in a way that I felt works in the universe. How the Barclay's can succeed in a world. all about high achievers. I can't say I engaged with Discovery in the same manner.

Lower Decks final episode was way better than the other 2 cartoon or not.
No end of universe BS and some tough consequences in the end

Rawr · 26-01-2021 7:29am

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Each to their own. I was initially incredibly dubious of the concept of Lower Decks, but for me it got the right balance of reverance to the source material, while pulling the piss out of some of the nonsense. I was engaged with Picard because of Picard as a character, I engaged with Lower Decks because I felt they took the obvious parts of Trek that we can pull the piss out off and made a great homage to it, while also developing characters in a way that I felt works in the universe. How the Barclay's can succeed in a world. all about high achievers. I can't say I engaged with Discovery in the same manner.

Lower Decks was a silly cartoon. Lower Decks was also a stupid cartoon. But....Lower Decks was Star Trek. Which is the first time I could say with confidence for a long while. It was a fun show, and felt like it belonged in the same universe as the pre-Kelvin Trek shows. It felt like it was made by Star Trek fans, instead of a bunch of Star Wars likers who barely even know how that franchise works.

I have no problem counting a cartoon as Star Trek, especially if they do a good job. It's just frustrating / disappointing that the more expensive live-action shows do so poorly in comparison.

JayRoc · 26-01-2021 12:56pm

Rawr wrote: »

Lower Decks was a silly cartoon. Lower Decks was also a stupid cartoon. But....Lower Decks was Star Trek. Which is the first time I could say with confidence for a long while. It was a fun show, and felt like it belonged in the same universe as the pre-Kelvin Trek shows. It felt like it was made by Star Trek fans, instead of a bunch of Star Wars likers who barely even know how that franchise works.

I have no problem counting a cartoon as Star Trek, especially if they do a good job. It's just frustrating / disappointing that the more expensive live-action shows do so poorly in comparison.

The last episode of Lower Decks was ten times more Trek than any of the Discovery I watched

(Edit: and bear in mind I really, really didn't dig it at the start)

Goodshape · 26-01-2021 1:19pm

Rawr wrote: »

Lower Decks was a silly cartoon. Lower Decks was also a stupid cartoon. But....Lower Decks was Star Trek.

I just rewatched it all on Amazon Prime and this really holds true. It's silly hijinks – but it's silly hijinks in the Star Trek universe.

There's jokes and callbacks that tug constantly on your nostalgia cord but, in almost every episode, the setting and set-up is actually a really decent *new* Star Trek story that would be right at home in any of the TNG-era shows.

Mariner is a chore to put up with in those first three or four episodes but even that has a good pay-off.

JayRoc · 26-01-2021 2:54pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Mariner is a chore to put up with in those first three or four episodes but even that has a good pay-off.

It's funny because the experience of Lower Decks was, for me, the total opposite of watching Picard; Picard started really strong and had such potential...which I thought had been almost totally wasted by the time it ended.

Rawr · 27-01-2021 11:45am

JayRoc wrote: »

It's funny because the experience of Lower Decks was, for me, the total opposite of watching Picard; Picard started really strong and had such potential...which I thought had been almost totally wasted by the time it ended.

Same here. Lower Decks and Mariner herself grew on me over time, and by the time the season ended I was glad to have spent that time.

Picard had me excited at first. This almost felt like a big-budget continuation of the TNG world we remembered...but then over time you start to realise that it was really just a re-badge of a Discovery production with all of the writing problems associated with that other show. I finished Picard bitterly disappointed that my initial excitement for that show was mis-placed and that I would have been better off stopping a few episodes in, oblivious to how badly such a story could be handled.

One of these show deserves a rewatch...the other does not.

Johnny Storm · 28-01-2021 12:16pm

I just rewatched Picard ep 7 (meet the Rikers) and ep 8 (7 powers up the cube). I actually quite enjoyed them. I'm not saying they were perfect by any means but IMHO they are in a different league to Disco S3

pixelburp · 28-01-2021 12:24pm

Discovery is a weird, freewheeling show where even after all the chaos calmed down, Season 3 has struggled to cast off this idea of an ad-hoc production.

Picard felt like a show that, good or bad, it knew where it was going and what it wanted to do with its cast. And it HAD a cast, which is important: again, as divisive as (say) Rafi was, she still had an arc, background and a sense of who she was. Good luck divining any identity from Detmer, who really personified that shoulder-shrug of a structure.

Goodshape · 28-01-2021 1:39pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Picard felt like a show that, good or bad, it knew where it was going and what it wanted to do with its cast.

I agree they had a better cast of characters but I still feel they lost the run of the story more than once. The tone shifted from something more serious and "real" (insofar as it's still Star Trek) to just gratuitous nostalgia and then the usual meaningless universe-ending big-bad and deus-ex resolution, with off-the-wall fantasy "sci-fi" saving lives and resurrecting dead characters.

Same with Discovery, I just get the sense that somebody needs to properly plan these seasons and have the resolve to stick with it until the end.

Inviere · 28-01-2021 1:53pm

Johnny Storm wrote: »

I just rewatched Picard ep 7 (meet the Rikers) and ep 8 (7 powers up the cube). I actually quite enjoyed them. I'm not saying they were perfect by any means but IMHO they are in a different league to Disco S3

Save your judgement for the two part finale..... (Btw I was on board with Picard up as far as you've watched....it very quickly fell apart due to people writing the show who have no business doing do.)

pixelburp · 28-01-2021 2:34pm

Goodshape wrote: »

I agree they had a better cast of characters but I still feel they lost the run of the story more than once. The tone shifted from something more serious and "real" (insofar as it's still Star Trek) to just gratuitous nostalgia and then the usual meaningless universe-ending big-bad and deus-ex resolution, with off-the-wall fantasy "sci-fi" saving lives and resurrecting dead characters.

Same with Discovery, I just get the sense that somebody needs to properly plan these seasons and have the resolve to stick with it until the end.

I suspect Picard's cliff dive of quality was born from studio interference; that they insisted the finale was BIG & EPIC, when it was clear the story was a much more personal one - in being a functional retcon of Data's death. Next thing you know we had a bonkers apocalypse plot for no sane reason. The finale did give us space flowers, which instantly became a top 5 "Trek does cosmic exotica" moment.

Bobtheman · 28-01-2021 2:39pm

Stewart is too old at this stage for action shows. He is pushing 80.
I just thought the whole data story was too elongated and full of plot holes.
It's nostalgia at best
Discovery for better or worse is the new trek.

pixelburp · 28-01-2021 4:14pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Stewart is too old at this stage for action shows. He is pushing 80.
I just thought the whole data story was too elongated and full of plot holes.
It's nostalgia at best
Discovery for better or worse is the new trek.

It wasn't 10 episodes of story, that's for sure, but I gave it a retroactive pass for trying to allow Data a more characterful send-off than "Nemesis" ever was.

As you say though, Stewart's just too old at this stage, so begs the question where the show goes given he's the titular character - yet the scripts made a point of giving it a full cast of characters. The obvious guess would be 7of9 takes over.

That does remind that of that truly stupid moment in Picard's finale (spoilered as some are still catching up):

Soong: "Great news Jean-Luc! We gave you a new body; your disease is cured!"
Picard: "Amazing, so I've been made young agai..."
Soong: "Oh wait. God no. We've made an exact copy of your old, frail body."
Picard: "Even though I'd be lamenting getting old and opportunities missed in life?"
Soong: "Exactly. I see nothing wrong here"
*somewhere in the Picard Writing Room*
Writer: A thematic arc? What's that, some kind of Romulan thing?

Obviously, done to keep Patrick Stewart available but that was such a chance missed for something really brave. It would have been divisive for sure, but kinda nuts in a good way too.

28-01-2021 4:23pm

Bringing back Tom Hardy...:pac:

breezy1985 · 28-01-2021 6:33pm

Discovery really feels like it was supposed to be a one season limited release for the 50yrs of Trek celebration that ended up more popular than expected and in true US fashion got milked beyond it's sell by date.

Too many TV shows start without knowing where they want to go which is why The Expanse is so good and GOT was during the book seasons

Goodshape · 08-02-2021 3:59pm

Major Grin cuts a good YouTube video, makes the point with archive interviews:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRxmkfD2X10

(the quick editing starts to get annoying but calms down after the first 5 minutes)

Bloody depressing what they've done to the thing.

breezy1985 · 08-02-2021 4:12pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Major Grin cuts a good YouTube video, makes the point with archive interviews:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRxmkfD2X10

(the quick editing starts to get annoying but calms down after the first 5 minutes)

Bloody depressing what they've done to the thing.

All that Genes vision crap is just as annoying as the people who think Discovery is the greatest thing ever.

That Titan scene at the start really is one of the stupidest plots in Discovery. Surely the human from Titan knows that he looks like a big scary alien with a robot voice and would take the helmet off when he is trying to communicate with earth

Goodshape · 08-02-2021 4:24pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

All that Genes vision crap is just as annoying as the people who think Discovery is the greatest thing ever.

I'd tend to disagree. What else have you got apart from that? Just another dystopian "sci-fi" action show.

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