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13-01-2019, 00:02   #931
mikeecho
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Originally Posted by Aston martin View Post
Aston: Not possible to disprove you are not guilty , I would think there hasn't been anyone able to disprove the Radar or equipment evidence was faulty
you can't look at the contract appointing GO-SAFE ,GO Safe don't have phone Number ? as far as I know its and off shore company based Isle of man.

Surely as innocence you should be given a fair chance to defend your self , some people get caught and they weren't speeding !!!! Radar manufactories have warning on them that mistakes can happen.

In UK two separate evidence and two photos in Ireland one photo.

Its is common that people self regulate but we all know from building regulations in Ireland where people regulated them selfs and there was a mess left behind .

Say the company that make the radar AGD/Redflex {Redflex are shareholder in Go Safe}
come along at end of the year to the GO Safe Van and find out that the radar hasn't been calibrating properly for last six months ,
957 drivers have been caught incorrectly and fined and paid .

the question I am wondering does Radar company that self regulate by issuing their own certs point out the problem,
1) does it cost the radar couple hundred thousands and maybe the whole Go Safe company and system collapse
2) or do the just say all correct , and reissue cert for another 12 months : does anyone know the answer ???

I can get you certified court extract from an Irish court where the prosecution state clearly the calibration cert used by Go Safe can only be read out of Ireland , Happy to meet you you to show you.

Interesting I understand that the pictures are uploaded by Redflex software , {Redflex are a third share holder in Go Safe ,}

There was a very brave Whistle blower in Go-Safe that pointed out , that people had been fined incorrectly , why was he fired ???
Lots of , if's, buts, maybes and I think.

I don't know where you're going with this.
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14-01-2019, 09:50   #932
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Any idea how to get the revenue collectors on a road close to where I live?
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14-01-2019, 09:57   #933
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Any idea how to get the revenue collectors on a road close to where I live?
This is the speed camera thread. You are looking for taxation.
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14-01-2019, 14:03   #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aston martin View Post
Aston: Not possible to disprove you are not guilty , I would think there hasn't been anyone able to disprove the Radar or equipment evidence was faulty
you can't look at the contract appointing GO-SAFE ,GO Safe don't have phone Number ? as far as I know its and off shore company based Isle of man.

Surely as innocence you should be given a fair chance to defend your self , some people get caught and they weren't speeding !!!! Radar manufactories have warning on them that mistakes can happen.

In UK two separate evidence and two photos in Ireland one photo.

Its is common that people self regulate but we all know from building regulations in Ireland where people regulated them selfs and there was a mess left behind .

Say the company that make the radar AGD/Redflex {Redflex are shareholder in Go Safe}
come along at end of the year to the GO Safe Van and find out that the radar hasn't been calibrating properly for last six months ,
957 drivers have been caught incorrectly and fined and paid .

the question I am wondering does Radar company that self regulate by issuing their own certs point out the problem,
1) does it cost the radar couple hundred thousands and maybe the whole Go Safe company and system collapse
2) or do the just say all correct , and reissue cert for another 12 months : does anyone know the answer ???

I can get you certified court extract from an Irish court where the prosecution state clearly the calibration cert used by Go Safe can only be read out of Ireland , Happy to meet you you to show you.

Interesting I understand that the pictures are uploaded by Redflex software , {Redflex are a third share holder in Go Safe ,}

There was a very brave Whistle blower in Go-Safe that pointed out , that people had been fined incorrectly , why was he fired ???
You should get caught speeding and then use all your well researched information to bring down the system.
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14-01-2019, 18:28   #935
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In UK two separate evidence and two photos in Ireland one photo.
There is a lot of error in your post to go through but I'll focus on this for now. You are comparing two different systems. In the UK, and Ireland when we had them, there were two photos from fixed cameras. Why? It was a fixed camera with lines painted on the road. So the two photos were your car in two positions hence distance (From the lines on the road) and time between photos gives you verification of speed to the radar reading.

This does not apply for GoSafe in Ireland or any camera system that is mobile.

With respect to your core argument, you are forgetting that the Irish statute has no requirement for equipment to be validated or calibrated. Is this insane? Yes. But it's the law and until that law is examined and challenged (Read 'deep pockets' and 'days in the supreme court') then it's not going to change. Therefore we can wax lyrical on here and present hypotheticals but the second you land in front of a judge, they'll point out that statute and you'll hear a gavel not in your favour.
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15-01-2019, 00:11   #936
Aston martin
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Originally Posted by ironclaw View Post
There is a lot of error in your post to go through but I'll focus on this for now. You are comparing two different systems. In the UK, and Ireland when we had them, there were two photos from fixed cameras. Why? It was a fixed camera with lines painted on the road. So the two photos were your car in two positions hence distance (From the lines on the road) and time between photos gives you verification of speed to the radar reading.

reply :Thanks for clarification on the two photos , but still in UK they require two bits of evidence but as you say we are in Ireland so its not the same standard.

This does not apply for GoSafe in Ireland or any camera system that is mobile.
Reply: Is there a Video of the speeding cars ?

There was a case in Thurles before judge Elizabeth Mcgrath threw a case out said only one picture and the case was reported on RTE radio 1 Sean O Rourke show.

If you were to go before the Ennis court the Judge seems to have a great understanding of the law and does a great job
and dismiss a lot of case he is not happy with, in fairness to the local solicitors they do a great job and argue for the clients and put up strong legal arguments ..

With respect to your core argument, you are forgetting that the Irish statute has no requirement for equipment to be validated or calibrated. Is this insane? Yes. But it's the law and until that law is examined and challenged (Read 'deep pockets' and 'days in the supreme court') then it's not going to change. Therefore we can wax lyrical on here and present hypotheticals but the second you land in front of a judge, they'll point out that statute and you'll hear a gavel not in your favour.
Agree totally with you the law is written that you are guilty as doesn't allow or consider any errors which are possible .


Please point out any other errors you think as this is a discussion board so please let me know

Last edited by Aston martin; 15-01-2019 at 00:22.
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15-01-2019, 00:15   #937
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On an unrelated note .

Is it a record that this is an 8yr old thread, yet still relevant, and Still active.

Bula Bus to ironclaw

Last edited by mikeecho; 15-01-2019 at 00:20.
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15-01-2019, 21:40   #938
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Quote:
Is there a Video of the speeding cars ?
There is video, but it would be useless as you have no fixed reference point i.e. Lines painted on the road.

Quote:
There was a case in Thurles before judge Elizabeth Mcgrath threw a case out said only one picture and the case was reported on RTE radio 1 Sean O Rourke show.
I can't find the judgement/news article but I'm guessing that relates to the permanent record precident? I'd need to read the case notes to see what was actually discussed but there is plenty of judgements in favour of GoSafe and speeding in general in Ireland.
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16-01-2019, 00:03   #939
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Thanks very much Ironclaw, Maybe the video could help people in there defence, there are plenty measurement in an urban setting , tress, lines on road ,bus stops ,pot holes drains , other cars in the picture that may also be speeding , items that can reflect the radar ,radar reflection Video may also show Van may parked on a grass verge just after a comer they don't always park in great places , or the van parked on a slope

The program was Sean O Rourke and Paddy O Gorman said case dismissed by judge as there was not two photos case heard Thurles court before a very good Judge Elizabeth McGrath broadcast on the main Irish National radio RTE 1 on 26.09.18 at about 6 mins and 50 secs
you can search it in the RTE player under Thurles you need Adobe to listen to it or you may find it on the RTE link https://rte.ie/r.html?rii=b9_21437788_15036_26-09-2018_

Last edited by Aston martin; 16-01-2019 at 00:14.
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16-01-2019, 13:51   #940
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The above highlights, at least to me, that you may not have a great understanding of how this technology works.

Quote:
there are plenty measurement in an urban setting , tress, lines on road ,bus stops ,pot holes drains
Taking aside the rural setting with no point of reference, you would need to know the distance between the van, car and every object in the snap, exactly. Contrast to Fixed Gatso, the lines on the road are painted in a tight tolerance and the system is in a known location in relation to these lines. The same is said for Red Light cameras. The measurements are exact. Likewise, you have two points of evidence, a radar reading and an entirely separate timing element for the camera to measure the time between snaps, which show the lines on the road, hence the two pieces of evidence are comparable.

A video doesn't aid your defence in the slightest as there is no way of knowing, with great accuracy, how fast you were travelling from the footage.

Remember, if you are in front of a judge, the chances are you were close to the limit and likely far over it given the tolerance to actually get a ticket. Hence, if your video footage is say +/- 10% accurate, which would be generous, you are not helping your case.

Quote:
other cars in the picture that may also be speeding
RedFlex makes systems that are capable of tracking multiple 'targets' and the presence of other cars doesn't influence the reading. To give an example of the complexity, the system can measure the length of a car.

Quote:
items that can reflect the radar ,radar reflection
This problem has long been solved by the engineering of the system itself. Radar has come a long way since the 1940's and even consumer based radar systems have extreme fault tolerance to this. You need only look at self-driving cars and radar-based cruise controls.

Quote:
may also show Van may parked on a grass verge just after a comer they don't always park in great places , or the van parked on a slope
This has no impact on the van as the system and the system is calibrated prior to being used. If you ever have the good fortune of seeing a van being set up, you'll see a small tripod out the back. This calibration is what is occurring and was the focus of the investigation (I think Prime Time) a few years ago.

In closing, anyone who reads my post history will notice I'm not the greatest fan of these cameras but I'm generally of the opinion, from every ounce of research I've done, that if someone ends up in front of a judge for a speeding ticket, they probably deserve to be there. Trying to get off on a technicality is not a mature way to act on the road. If someone is speeding, at least accept there is a possibility you will get caught and when you do get caught, pay the piper. Of course, that does not apply if someone was genuinely not speeding but the chances of that happening are very, very low.

My personal recommendation is to expend your energy in fitting to your own car a method of determining your own speed accurately (Read 'race spec gps not cheap china dvr') and when you get caught, check your speed. If you were over, pay the fine, if you were under, try to fight it on those terms.
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16-01-2019, 15:51   #941
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Thanks ironclaw,

Very helpful, and have you have great knowledge I will look at 'race spec gps sounds interesting , as I don't speed hopefully won't get caught unless in error by a Go Safe/Garda and could use this in defence but don't think it would be accepted.

A video could work clearly in anyones defence with some accuracy as if you play the video , two cars traveling opposite directions closely within 3 to 5 ft of each other in a very urban setting loads of reflections one doing car 30kph and one car doing 65kph radar makes a mistake or the software makes a mistake or operator makes a mistake, wrong car caught.
it’s very easy to see simply from the footage which car was speeding not rocket science .

There is only one way you can get off if you are innocent , that's to say you didn't get the summons (No penalty points no cost over 250,000 people have done this it’s easy)

The other way is go to court explain under oath that you are not guilty, you can't prove the radar wasn't working properly as law states it was ,if you had loads of money you can get an radar expert from UK , Stg £3,500 for the day
DPP will asks then for new date so you might have another day at Stg £3,500 Total Stg £7,000 and you might get off on technically issue its very unfair as you have to be rich to get expert.

if you louse you get 3 points plus 2 points for saying your innocent and remember you weren't speeding.

It is possible to get caught when driving carefully and not over the speed limit and many many other offenses that you’re not guilty off and the Garda have mentioned before that over 14,000 errors have happened https://www.odwyersolicitors.ie/gard...c-convictions/

This came out at the time of the 2,000,000 (yes Two million) drink drive tests that were falsified illegally as they didn't happen as before mentioned the brave GO Safe whistle blower who tried to tell the truth ,why was he fired ? its covered here https://www.thejournal.ie/wrongly-fined-1393534-Apr2014

Did you get a chance to listen to the Sean O Rourke link , ? wonder why the judge was looking for two photos ?

Last edited by Aston martin; 16-01-2019 at 16:08.
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16-01-2019, 15:57   #942
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Originally Posted by Aston martin View Post
Thanks ironclaw,

Very helpful, and have you have great knowledge I will look at 'race spec gps sounds interesting , as I don't speed hopefully won't get caught unless in error by a Go Safe/Garda and could use this in defence but don't think it would be accepted.

A video could work clearly in your defence with some accuracy as if you play the video , two cars traveling opposite directions closely within 3 ft of each other in a very urban setting loads of reflections one doing car 30kph and one car doing 65kph radar makes a mistake or the software makes a mistake wrong car caught
it’s very easy to see from the footage which car was speeding.

There is only one way you can get off if you are innocent , that's to say you didn't get the summons (No penalty points no cost over 250,000 people have done this it’s easy)

The other way is go to court explain under oath that you are not guilty, you can't prove the radar wasn't working properly as law states it was ,if you had loads of money you can get an radar expert from UK , Stg £3,500 for the day
DPP will asks then for new date so you might have another day at Stg £3,500 Total Stg £7,000 and you might get off on technically issue its very unfair as you have to be rich to get expert.

if you louse you get 3 points plus 2 points for saying your innocent and remember you weren't speeding.

It is possible to get caught when driving carefully and not over the speed limit and many many other offenses that you’re not guilty off and the Garda have mentioned before that over 14,000 errors have happened https://www.odwyersolicitors.ie/gard...c-convictions/

This came out at the time of the 2,000,000 (yes Two million) drink drive tests that were falsified illegally as they didn't happen as before mentioned the brave GO Safe whistle blower who tried to tell the truth ,why was he fired ? its covered here https://www.thejournal.ie/wrongly-fined-1393534-Apr2014

Did you get a chance to listen to the Sean O Rourke link , ? wonder why the judge was looking for two photos ?
The new dual radar systems are pretty accurate.

You've very very unlikely to be caught incorrectly.

If you get a ticket, .. just pay it. The chances of being incorrectly recorded are so very very small that the eliminate of doubt is so dismisminhed, you wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of successfully contrasting it.

But. Like so many posters before that claim that they will contest.. you'll never hear a follow up.

If you're caught. You're caught.

Take your medicine
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16-01-2019, 17:01   #943
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Are there any radar detectors to alert you to the presence of these dual radar systems?
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16-01-2019, 17:48   #944
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Thanks mikeecho,

i am in general pro speed traps (not Goldfish ones ) and people should not speed.

Agree totaly with you if you are speeding and caught speeding , simply pay the fine simply easy.

If you were not speeding then you should have an option of going to court and telling the truth, unless you are prepared to say you were guility
when you weren't and pay a fine that is not due really good idea.

Remember other option if you go to court you get off automatically very simply " say i didn't get the fine.." takes a few minutes 250,000 have done this successfully its great.

But in Ireland "The presumption of innocence is the legal principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty" the speed laws overwrite that you could be innocence and found guilty, does anyone know what counties in Europe have the same law just out of interest

The dual radars are very good very advanced, but every radar has limits and is outlined clearly for all radars that in a urban environment . tress trucks .buses , houses, metal surfaces they can make mistakes, they also can have mistakes made by the operator, clearly this has happened as reported in the national papers with the Go safe whistle blower who said he made a mistake.. got fired for telling the truth. Not an easy job sitting in a van for 8 hours no toilet two radars beside you and with loads batteries
looking at a screen in the dark no sun light hot on your own no social interaction a very unhealthy job... quite easy to make a human error.

If you make an error point it out and become a whistle blower you get fired as is reported in national papers

Any Go-Safe people on here could update us how it is in the back of the van on a hot summers day , don't think they have air conditioning

Last edited by Aston martin; 16-01-2019 at 18:37.
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16-01-2019, 18:56   #945
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Are there any radar detectors to alert you to the presence of these dual radar systems?
There are, but because of the way that gosafe radar operates , it's difficult to detect.
You'll be looking at specialist systems that cost well in excess of €1,000.

Not worth the investment, better to use your eyes and a bit of common sense
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