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 16-11-2010, 21:26 #2 BrianD3 Registered User   Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 6,252 Good idea for a thread. Couple of Qs What is the max range of the GoSafe vans. Also how wide is the reach of the camera/radar. For instance, if the van is parked in the hard shoulder of a 3 lane dual carriageway, can it detect a car in lane 3, lane 2 etc.. Can the operator of the GoSafe camera move the equipment so that it is pointing at a specific vehicle
16-11-2010, 21:33   #3
ironclaw
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Quote:
 What is the max range of the GoSafe vans.
I'll be honest and say I do not know. However, I would say they will get you at no more than 300m. You have to pass the van and a shutter speed is extremely fast. They can also replay the video. So its not how far, its how close

If you draw a comparison to a rifle, the system would be zero'd for a distance. So they would set up and say "At 50m we call a speeder" Or "We get an initial reading at 100m and snap at 50m"

Quote:
 Also how wide is the reach of the camera/laser. Fo instance if the van is parked in the hard shoulder of a 3 lane dual carriageway, can it detect a car in lane 3, lane 2 etc..
I doubt they will park on a 3 lane carriage way. As you do have a shift effect in play (Advance trigonometry that works to the motorists advantage as it shaves off a km/ph or two.) I wouldn't argue it, if the say your speeding you were speeding. I don't know the exact radar specs either. They could be able to track multiple cars at once. The system shown did have "car behind" technology which is very advanced.

In short, yes, the beam is wide and accurate enough to target any car on a multiple lane road.

Quote:
 Can the operator of the GoSafe camera move the equipment so that it is pointing at a specific vehicle
It will be targeting a road. So any vehicle in the view is a target.

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16-11-2010, 23:03   #4
johndoc
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Couple of classics here http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/...2/sec0021.html

Quote:
 21.—(1) The onus of establishing prima facie proof of a constituent of an offence committed after the commencement of this section (including the speed at which a person, whether the accused or another person, was driving) under section 47, 52, 53, 55, 91, 92, 93 or 94 of the Principal Act or section 35 of the Act of 1994 may be discharged by tendering evidence from which that constituent can be inferred of measurements or other indications which were given by electronic or other apparatus (including a camera) and are contained in a record produced by that apparatus, and it shall not be necessary to prove that the electronic or other apparatus was accurate or in good working order.
Quote:
 (3) The electronic or other apparatus referred to in subsection (1) shall— (a) be capable of producing a photograph or other record of the measurements or other indications referred to in that subsection, and (b) be of a type that has been approved by— (i) the Commissioner or another member of the Garda Síochána not below the rank of Chief Superintendent authorised in that behalf by the Commissioner, or (ii) the chief executive officer of the National Roads Authority or another officer of that Authority duly authorised in that behalf by the first-mentioned officer, and it shall not be necessary to prove that the apparatus is of a type so approved.

Him:- Guilty, pay up
Me:- but.....
Him:- Zip it. Pay

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 17-11-2010, 02:03 #5 bmw535d Registered User   Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,145 :O i've heard of numerous cases where the offender went too court and thier solicitor asked for a calibration cert where the guard replied "a what cert"? and the case was thrown out? is this all pub talk?
17-11-2010, 10:10   #6
Seth Brundle

Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 24,062
Good OP. A few points though...
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ironclaw At the rear we have this:
Not all Gatso vans are marked at the rear!
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ironclaw They look like this and are situated on the roadside:
Just to clarify that ours are grey and not 'advertised' by using orange.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ironclaw I doubt they will park on a 3 lane carriage way. As you do have a shift effect in play (Advance trigonometry that works to the motorists advantage as it shaves off a km/ph or two.) I wouldn't argue it, if the say your speeding you were speeding. I don't know the exact radar specs either. They could be able to track multiple cars at once. The system shown did have "car behind" technology which is very advanced. In short, yes, the beam is wide and accurate enough to target any car on a multiple lane road.
The gardai frequently sit on the N4 for example which is a 3 lane plus bus lane dual carriageway.
Also there was a case in the UK a few years ago where it was claimed that the angle of the van, etc. resulted in an inaccurate reading the more to the right that you were on the road. He lost IIRC!

Quote:
 Originally Posted by bmw535d :O i've heard of numerous cases where the offender went too court and thier solicitor asked for a calibration cert where the guard replied "a what cert"? and the case was thrown out? is this all pub talk?
Yes.
They are calibrated and the certs IIRC (based on posts here from members of AGS) it can and is shown in court.

 17-11-2010, 10:24 #7 Piri Registered User   Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 224 You can detect the laser as well...
 17-11-2010, 10:31 #8 thewing Registered User     Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 646 I have an Iphone - should I buy a GPS? - is there any maps out there with a comprehensive list? Looking at irishspeedtraps.com app, it doesn't have any cameras outside of Dublin and the info is only as good as what people contribute All I would want would a gps based warning device/app based on the map currently on the garda website....
17-11-2010, 11:26   #9
ironclaw
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Quote:
 Also there was a case in the UK a few years ago where it was claimed that the angle of the van, etc. resulted in an inaccurate reading the more to the right that you were on the road. He lost IIRC!
Becareful on that one. The slip (cosine) effect works in your favor. So the Gardai will get a LOWER reading that your actually speed. So if they get a reading of above the speed limit your still speeding. This effect only works if your fractions close to being over (3km/ph at most) It also is most documented in laser systems, I have no statics from radar as they are different (Radar refracts and spreads more than laser)

With regards to multiple lanes, your taking a gamble challenging it. These systems are extremely advanced. If they said you were speeding you were speeding. The read out of distance to your car and the photo (If you argue the car beside was speeding) will rule out any discrepancies. I wouldn't fight it.

With regards to Certs:

As per the manufacturers (UK Dealers: http://www.teletrafficuk.com/products_ultralyte100.htm) The laser gun must be calibrated each day before duty. However this is a recommendation and I do not believe it has no legal stand point.

Quote:
 You can detect the laser as well...
Of course you can. You can detect any electromagnetic wave with suitable equipment. The problem is:

Look down a long narrow tunnel. Now, move around the enterance from left to right. You can't see all the way down unless your looking straight down it. So you'll only detect a laser when its pointing straight at you.

You can detect laser "off axis" but you need extremely sensitive kit and alot of luck (You want the laser beam to bounce and reflect)

Edit: Main Post Updated

Last edited by ironclaw; 17-11-2010 at 11:41.

17-11-2010, 16:14   #10
Piri
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Posts: 224
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ironclaw Of course you can. You can detect any electromagnetic wave with suitable equipment. The problem is: Look down a long narrow tunnel. Now, move around the enterance from left to right. You can't see all the way down unless your looking straight down it. So you'll only detect a laser when its pointing straight at you. You can detect laser "off axis" but you need extremely sensitive kit and alot of luck (You want the laser beam to bounce and reflect)
Detectors working differently
Just like human eyes
If somebody using light at the end of the tunnel , no need to catch the beam directly It is enough to see where it is comig from.
Cheaper equipmnents are not so good for this of course but there is lots of excellent ones.

In Germany there was a case when they found that police can make speeding evidence even when the car is standstill.
It depends how they using the radars! LOL

17-11-2010, 16:23   #11
ironclaw
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Piri Detectors working differently Just like human eyes If somebody using light at the end of the tunnel , no need to catch the beam directly It is enough to see where it is comig from. Cheaper equipmnents are not so good for this of course but there is lots of excellent ones. In Germany there was a case when they found that police can make speeding evidence even when the car is standstill. It depends how they using the radars! LOL

Quote:
 You can detect laser "off axis" but you need extremely sensitive kit and alot of luck (You want the laser beam to bounce and reflect)
It is very difficult to detect laser before it hits you.

And yes, its possible to make a reading erroneous, but it was under lab conditions (i.e. Angles, distance, reflection off a road sign) It would be unimaginable in real life. But you right, it is possible.

 28-11-2010, 01:59 #12 EricM Registered User   Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 246 All GoSafe locations found http://www.garda.ie/gosafe.htm Data source (backup in case garda kill that link) http://www.garda.ie/sez/gardagosafecameras.kml Last edited by EricM; 28-11-2010 at 02:02.
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28-11-2010, 11:29   #13

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8,000
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ironclaw Note: All this information is publicly available. The information given is for guidance only and should be not be used for any purpose other than information Hi Folks, Seeing as there is a mega thread to do with Speed Cameras, I though I would start a thread specifically to deal with what they are and how they work. .../... Slow down, its cheaper! .../... Take Care. Reduce Your Speed. Accidents can happen due to speed. Spend your time driving safely, not avoiding cameras.
Well done, thanks. Great research and meticulously presented.

Your concluding advice is pure common sense. However, human nature being what it is, I can imagine that some motorists will find attempting to 'beat the system' an irresistibly attractive challenge...

28-11-2010, 19:15   #14
ironclaw
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Iwannahurl Well done, thanks. Great research and meticulously presented. Your concluding advice is pure common sense. However, human nature being what it is, I can imagine that some motorists will find attempting to 'beat the system' an irresistibly attractive challenge...
Exactly. This information is purely to stop speculation and scare mongering. These are the units and if you want to try and beat them, go ahead. I doubt you'll be successful. Drive safe and be aware.

 28-11-2010, 20:47 #15 thats not gone well Registered User   Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 239 @ironclaw any opinions on something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph-qv4gYAE8 more specifically is it possible with the GoSafe vans? (purely theoreretical ofcourse :wink: )
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