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Retired Commandant and former D/C.O. Army Ranger Wing shreds Government DF policy

  • 28-05-2019 6:37pm
    #1
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭


    Recently retired Head of the DFTC Medical School and former deputy commanding officer of the ARW, Commandant (Rtd) Dr. Cathal Berry has, just weeks after his retirement, made detailed statements to the media reporting what he sees as the incompetent civilian management at DoD level and lack of due attention and respect being given to the Defence Forces at Government level.

    Berry, 41, says he has retired not because he hated serving but because he can no longer watch the disintegration of and comtempt for the DF and the haemorrhage of excellent personnel who would dearly love to remain in service but cannot afford to, especially those enlisted personnel with dependents. Also, experienced military units are not involved in defence policy planning and Junior Minister Paul Kehoe is a 'decent man' but incapable manager.

    Berry emphasises that his main concern are "management-101" issues and that pay is only part of the rot.

    Personally I'd give this man another medal if I could. How we can loose an officer of his experience and lots like him at such young ages is criminal, I mean the lad took a career break and put himself through medical school among other things

    P. S. Brigadier General Ger Ahern, Retired (western command) has just appeared on the 6-1 news to support and reiterate the Commandants complaints


Comments

  • #2
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,519 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    *tumbleweed*


  • #3
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,519 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    I'd say the voters aren't interested and the parties aren't interested. Doesn't look good for the future of the DF.

    They don't have a union of their own to go out and fight for them either and lets face it other unions aren't interested in seeing their piece of the pie go to the DF.


  • #4
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    They don't have a union of their own to go out and fight for them either

    You're probably right, but in fact there are two DF representative associations, just like the Garda.


  • #5
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 80,988 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    If only there was some way to know what the salary was before taking a job.


  • #6
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    If only there was some way to know what the salary was before taking a job.

    No need to be churlish.

    The issues being raised mainly effect enlisted personnel in the 10+ years service who did once enjoy reasonable allowances but who like the Guards took a disproportionate hit in the public sector pay cuts because allowances weren't treated like basic pay. Now those people have dependents, they simply can't afford to stay.


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  • #7
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,519 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    You're probably right, but in fact there are two DF representative associations, just like the Garda.

    I understand but they cant take or threaten industrial action so they are badly caught.

    Also with the overall numbers dropping they must be losing a lot of highly qualified well trained personel?


  • #8
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,847 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    The problem is that people think that we are neutral so will never agree to any investment in our military especially when the health department is a bottomless money pit and people are living in hotels.

    The fact that they don't know that a neutral country is supposed to be able to defend its own boarders and if lead starts flying history has shown how little respect major powers have for neutral countries is lost on them. They think that we are an insignificant island of the west of the continent with European armies and NATO to defend us and not the easy back door to close the shipping lanes on an unsinkable aircraft carrier.


  • #9
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,181 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I’m showing a Commandant as making about EUR70k before tax, is that right? It doesn’t seem to be incredibly unreasonable if you are looking at the cost of living in most barracks locations, no? Is there a locality pay so that those assigned to Dublin can get more to cover the higher cost of living there compared to a smaller facility?


  • #10
    murph226
    Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭murph226


    70k gross for a Commandant is crap.


  • #11
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,181 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    murph226 wrote: »
    70k gross for a Commandant is crap.

    It’s not that much below what I earn before locality pay and the like, and I’m the equivalent rank. Granted, my pay goes up substantially (by some 50%) if i’m located in some place like San Francisco and not in base housing, but not so much if I’m in Fort Leavenworth Kansas. Which is why I ask about whether there is an accommodation made for cost of living.


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  • #12
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Which is why I ask about whether there is an accommodation made for cost of living.

    No. There are some allowances for certain types of specialist duty and a service allowance that all officers get (Commandant would get €5-6,000) or so, but there is nothing to reflect where a person has to live and and work like some private sector specialists would get here, so called Dublin or London allowance


  • #13
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,181 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    No. There are some allowances for certain types of specialist duty and a service allowance that all officers get (Commandant would get €5-6,000) or so, but there is nothing to reflect where a person has to live and and work like some private sector specialists would get here, so called Dublin or London allowance

    OK. And assuming there's no such thing as "Base housing", then, yes, I can see how the pay scale can be a problem.


  • #14
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    what's the value of the remuneration package, including subsidies, pension contributions, health insurance etc?

    According to glassdoor, a major in the British army makes less than 54k sterling PA including bonuses. That's less than 70k euro. They can get subsidized housing but often don't avail of it as it's generally not found to be great.

    Gross salaries are a bit meaningless unless there is not much in the way of benefits.

    I think the real issue is that the cost of living in Dublin is mental.70k is a good salary if it's not being wiped out by huge rents or mortgage repayments.


  • #15
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    It's also missing the point that Comdt Berry was discussing the overall climate of pay and conditions prevailing in the defence forces rather than his own.


  • #16
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    It did not take long for thr department of defence to strike back

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/wildly-inaccurate-claims-about-defence-forces-are-dismissed-1.3911301?mode=amp


  • #17
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Times are bad.

    Morale is bad.


  • #18
    ratracer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭ratracer


    Did he retire with full pension? Isn’t 20yrs full service in the DF?

    I may be wrong and I fully believe that DF personnel are paid and treated like ****e, but why only speak out after leaving and taking the T&C’s all through his career?


  • #19
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    ratracer wrote: »
    Did he retire with full pension? Isn’t 20yrs full service in the DF?

    I may be wrong and I fully believe that DF personnel are paid and treated like ****e, but why only speak out after leaving and taking the T&C’s all through his career?
    to avoid punitive measures


  • #20
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    ratracer wrote: »
    Did he retire with full pension? Isn’t 20yrs full service in the DF?

    I may be wrong and I fully believe that DF personnel are paid and treated like ****e, but why only speak out after leaving and taking the T&C’s all through his career?

    He might have, depending on the terms of his own contract, but it's hardly relevant whether he's got a pension now. When in service, he simply did not have the right to speak out publicly, and if you read his reasons for leaving, it's quite obvious that it's the current situation that's pushed him to leaving, long before mandatory retirement age.


  • #21
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    ratracer wrote: »
    Did he retire with full pension? Isn’t 20yrs full service in the DF?

    I may be wrong and I fully believe that DF personnel are paid and treated like ****e, but why only speak out after leaving and taking the T&C’s all through his career?

    Just to add what the lads said.

    20 years isnt full service.

    There are many variations of contracts going around at the moment but your rank will dictate your maximum retirement age. Some specialists can serve up to 65, again dependant on rank.

    Some people are required to serve 21 years to qualify for a military pension and are able to recieve it upon leaving...the luckier guys.

    Some people have to serve 21 years to be pensionable but will only recieve it once they hit 50. If that person joins at 17 and does 21 years, they have to wait 12 years before they can draw their military pension.....someone can correct me on that, there are some mad contracts out there.


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  • #22
    ectoraige
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    ratracer wrote: »
    why only speak out after leaving and taking the T&C’s all through his career?

    Because you can be punished and demoted for speaking out while in service. It's usually only retired members or the family of members who ever provide the non-official story.


  • #23
    NewSigGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭NewSigGuy


    Dale Doback wrote: »
    Just to add what the lads said.
    20 years isnt full service.

    For an Officer who joined before 2004, 20 years is Fully Pensionable, and includes Cadet or previous PDF service.


  • #24
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    NewSigGuy wrote: »
    For an Officer who joined before 2004, 20 years is Fully Pensionable, and includes Cadet or previous PDF service.

    Yep.

    Must also note there was a 12 years pension too.


  • #25
    Jupiter Mulligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Jupiter Mulligan


    The max point on the pay scale for a Medical Commandant is €93.6k (2nd LSI point).

    He'd have got that after 11 years as a commandant.

    He'd also have got about €4.5k MSA annually.


  • #26
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    NewSigGuy wrote: »
    For an Officer who joined before 2004, 20 years is Fully Pensionable, and includes Cadet or previous PDF service.

    Full sefrvice is 40 years. After 20 years it is half the full pension which is payable.


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