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Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

  • 25-10-2018 7:50am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Where to next for the government. LL cant choose tenants, cant raise rent over a certain level, pay high taxes (not treated like other businesses), reduced rights with regard to getting properties back, short term let. Can the barrel be scraped any more for pointless ideas by this government ?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Where to next for the government. LL cant choose tenants, cant raise rent over a certain level, pay high taxes (not treated like other businesses), reduced rights with regard to geting properties back, short term let. Can the barrel be scraped any more for pointless ideas by this government ?


    Patience, im sure there's plenty of more pointless and frankly dangerous ideas to come to deal with this calamity


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    Airbnb was originally used as a rent your spare room but now its used for entire properties, does this not fall foul of planning laws?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    Restrictions like this are becoming more the norm in cities where AirBnb operates - surprised it took the government this long to do something about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭SusanC10


    Is there a List of the affected areas outside of Dublin ? Or is it just Dublin ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Patience, im sure there's plenty of more pointless and frankly dangerous ideas to come to deal with this calamity




    so true. I expect this to add a few percentages to the cost of renting in those areas affected. They never learn When simple moves as allowing unpaying tenants to be evicted quickly would do mkre good for the cost of renting. as is the risks are huge for landlords with overholding.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Realistically all that is happening is enforcement of pre-existing, long standing planning regulations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    so true. I expect this to add a few percentages to the cost of renting in those areas affected. They never learn When simple moves as allowing unpaying tenants to be evicted quickly would do mkre good for the cost of renting. as is the risks are huge for landlords with overholding.


    The policies that have implemented thus far are endangering both tenants and landlords, this situation will more than likely continue to worsen for both, we need policies and systems that protect both parties, the opposite is occurring, there's no simple fixes here


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Borderfox wrote: »
    Airbnb was originally used as a rent your spare room but now its used for entire properties, does this not fall foul of planning laws?
    Yes.

    In effect this is just a signal that some quango will be tasked with chasing up the existing planning laws, to try and scare landlords out of the market.

    I'm not sure why the wait. Why not just provide direction/support for county councils to crack down on it now?

    It's long overdue, landlords have been taking the piss for a couple of years now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭EKRIUQ


    The is a Europe wide problem where there is any form of tourism market, there is not much incentive for landlords any more unless they want just the capital appreciation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    seamus wrote: »
    Yes.

    In effect this is just a signal that some quango will be tasked with chasing up the existing planning laws, to try and scare landlords out of the market.

    I'm not sure why the wait. Why not just provide direction/support for county councils to crack down on it now?

    It's long overdue, landlords have been taking the piss for a couple of years now.

    Taking the piss ? How ? Is it not the government changing like the wind in a sector they have no interest in supply housing into that is the problem.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Taking the piss ? How ? Is it not the government changing like the wind in a sector they have no interest in supply housing into that is the problem.
    Taking the piss by using residential properties for holiday lets.

    We have planning laws for exactly this reason - to ensure that the needs of society are met and properly balanced against the rights of property owners.

    If you want to rent out a holiday property, you need to ensure that the property you are renting out is classed as a holiday property. If it's not, then you are in breach of planning law.

    The government aren't changing anything, simply calling to enforce long-standing rules.

    Landlords know damn well that they are not legally permitted to rent out residential properties on AirBnB. But they do it anyway.

    These properties need to go back into the market proper; either sold or rented to long-term tenants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    It should lead to either more rentals or more houses appearing for sale on the market. Either result is good. It may lead to more empty properties though, depending on the situation of the owner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,023 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Long overdue and completely inevitable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    jjmcclure wrote: »
    Who would be a landlord in Ireland today. This will see more landlords exit the sector.
    Good. More properties on the market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    The landlords Association are jumping up and down with rage this morning on the radio.
    Oh what a beautiful morning. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    There are properties around Grand Canal Dock to rent on Airbnb and it is clear the tenant can't afford the rent so supplements it with Airbnb. I'm happy these people will ow have to vacate or take a permanent tenant with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    seamus wrote: »
    Taking the piss by using residential properties for holiday lets.

    We have planning laws for exactly this reason - to ensure that the needs of society are met and properly balanced against the rights of property owners.

    If you want to rent out a holiday property, you need to ensure that the property you are renting out is classed as a holiday property. If it's not, then you are in breach of planning law.

    The government aren't changing anything, simply calling to enforce long-standing rules.

    Landlords know damn well that they are not legally permitted to rent out residential properties on AirBnB. But they do it anyway.

    These properties need to go back into the market proper; either sold or rented to long-term tenants.


    ok. sit back and watch rental prices go alot higher in these areas.Then another thread will be government plan back fires. . shocker. Same issue with bedsits


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    The landlords Association are jumping up and down with rage this morning on the radio.
    Oh what a beautiful morning. :D

    in the end tenants will pay more


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ 75dgyj3zctmf18


    seamus wrote:
    Good. More properties on the market.


    Unfortunately I don't think they'd be rentals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    There are properties around Grand Canal Dock to rent on Airbnb and it is clear the tenant can't afford the rent so supplements it with Airbnb. I'm happy these people will ow have to vacate or take a permanent tenant with them.
    As it's not the entire property it's not breaking any planning law is it?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    in the end tenants will pay more

    But there are restrictions on landlords upping the rent. I think its 4%.


  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭pekitivey


    Hang on, what would this mean for tourists coming to Dublin? Less Air BnB places to rent so forced to stay in hotels? Where there is an ever increasing hospitality tax.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,023 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    The landlords Association are jumping up and down with rage this morning on the radio.
    Oh what a beautiful morning. :D

    The Landlord association jumping up and down is instructive. It confirms what was long debated or deflected on this forum: the short term letting market has been the path for many supposed residential properties. Effectively meaning large swathes of "landlords" are infact hoteliers without the correct planning permission or other regulatory standards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,023 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    pekitivey wrote: »
    Hang on, what would this mean for tourists coming to Dublin? Less Air BnB places to rent so forced to stay in hotels? Where there is an ever increasing hospitality tax.

    Tourists are down the consideration list in the midst of a housing crisis and when the core economy is booming. But yes, they should be staying in hotels or guest houses with appropriate PPR.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Accommodation in this country is basically some sort of Fleshy Tetris at this stage.

    This is a pain in the hole for us as a family who use air BnB in Dublin, more than anything else.

    It's almost impossible to find a hotel setup that can accommodate adults and kids (plus dog sometimes), so renting an apt or house for a few days near family was really bloody handy! 

    It was part of a wider range of accommodation offerings. This smacks of sticking the homeless in hotel rooms, putting hospital patients into nursing homes, or leaving them sit in A&E for eternity instead of fixing the root cause.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    There are properties around Grand Canal Dock to rent on Airbnb and it is clear the tenant can't afford the rent so supplements it with Airbnb. I'm happy these people will ow have to vacate or take a permanent tenant with them.
    They won't. Renting out a room in your own home is not in breach of planning laws. AirBnB isn't being outlawed; people will still be permitted to rent out rooms in their home, or rent out their homes for short periods. It will also be legal to continue to offer holiday homes on AirBnB.

    It just won't be permitted for someone to offer their Non-PPR on AirBnB.
    ok. sit back and watch rental prices go alot higher in these areas.
    How so? These are properties that are not being rented right now. How will their removal from AirBnB increase rental prices?
    Unfortunately I don't think they'd be rentals.
    It doesn't really matter, it's all the same market. Private residential properties for sale, eases the pressure on the rental market.

    The two markets affect eachother, any increase in availability in one, increases availability in the other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    The largest Air bnb host in Barcelona has potential daily rental income at peak season of over 37,000 Euro. They own over 200 flats. The whole holiday rental market has to be regulated, not just because it affects residential rentals but because it affects how communities function, the quality of life of residents and potentially even what amenities are needed.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,724 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Anecdotally, I searched my own estate on AirBnB the other day, and found 4 properties in our location alone. By the user profile's own admission, he was resident in another area of Dublin and running this as a primary(?) source of income. Our estate is very family oriented, with parents + 2/3 kids squeezed into tiny 1 bed apartments, while these 4 houses lie effectively fallow, save for intermittent visitors paying 300-400 euro a night.

    AirBnB is one of those quintessential high-minded tech companies: in principal their idea was cute & personable - it's a genuinely nice idea to holiday somewhere and have a local's hospitality as a base - but the reality is it left a gaping loophole for quick n' easy cash at the expense of a reasonable housing market for locals.

    The knock-on effect can be pronounced too: I believe in some areas particularly affected by AirBnB, local businesses - cafés, shops, utilities etc. - have seen their own business shrivel because of course, there are fewer locals living in the apartments / estates anymore that contribute to the community.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    pekitivey wrote: »
    Hang on, what would this mean for tourists coming to Dublin? Less Air BnB places to rent so forced to stay in hotels? Where there is an ever increasing hospitality tax.

    13.5% VAT is one of the lowest total tax takes on hotels in the world. 20%+ sales tax and a city night tax is normal elsewhere.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭mille100piedi


    I honestly don't have idea how much money landlords could earn with airbnb. Taxes are more than 50% most of the time and there is more maintenance to do


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